Ghostcrawler on class representation and balance
Ghostcrawler has a nice exchange on the forums (and it's not marked "Not Tracked", so you know he wants us reading this one) about how much of a role class representation actually plays in class balance. Obviously, balance itself plays the biggest role in class balance -- if (using GC's completely hypothetical example) Feral Druids are overpowered as tanks, then Blizzard would have to look into nerfing Feral Druids. But what if Feral Druids only make up a small percentage of the tanks in Ulduar? Should Blizzard nerf the 5% of tanks that are Druids down until they're only 2% of the population? Just because classes are overpowered doesn't mean that actual class populations are, and all of these things go into the mix when Blizzard makes decisions about how to balance the classes.
Look at Hunters as well -- just last week we talked about how the class population is falling off, and yet they're one of the top three classes played on both factions. So should Blizzard buff or nerf them?
If they buff, more people will play Hunters, but that might lead to an even more imbalanced representation. And if they nerf (to bring them down in line with other classes), dedicated Hunters, whose numbers are already dwindling, will feel cheated. Arena representation is another place where this dilemma is clearly seen: Blizzard isn't just balancing class abilities, they're balancing out class popularity as well.
GC makes another good point when he compares what the Starcraft team is doing with balance right now: in RTS games, you don't see as much "preference" going into the decision to play -- if Zerg are OP, you play as Zerg. But in MMOs like WoW, player background and choice plays just as big a part as endgame abilities and talents: if you feel like you want to be a Priest, you'll play them no matter how underpowered they are.
Very interesting stuff -- Ghostcrawler definitely gives an interesting look into all of the different torches Blizzard is trying to juggle when they make changes. He also says that many guilds, especially high level guilds, are more attached to the classes they play (because it's what they know), and that they're more likely to just up their own game rather than switching in and out classes based on whatever's been nerfed or buffed lately. Play style, class balance, and popularity and class loyalty all go into the equation when it comes time to put a class up on the operation table.
Filed under: Druid, Hunter, Analysis / Opinion, Blizzard, Instances, Classes, Death Knight, Forums






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
Kevin Jul 20th 2009 9:06PM
Good points.
for example, i play a Death Knight and even if they got nerfed TO THE GROUND (sorry. had to) i'd still play a DK.
Kevin Jul 20th 2009 9:07PM
to those who post "First!"...
Thus i refute thee!
AnthonyM Jul 20th 2009 9:31PM
That's a shame...
Eisengel Jul 21st 2009 2:09AM
I found this quote rather interesting...
"if you feel like you want to be a Priest, you'll play them no matter how underpowered they are."
...since I'm a future ex-Priest. I like my class and spec and I'm tired of just how directionless and ham-fisted Blizz's fixes are for Priests... when they happen at all. I like my class and spec too much to play it in it's current gimped state. I've leveled other classes to 80 and have raided with them, but I don't really enjoy them, I want to be able to play my Priest without gimping my raids and being a fountain of suck in PvP... so I canceled my account. I hung on for a year waiting for fixes that didn't come. I'll keep watching the patch notes and reading sites like this one, but based on the way Blizz has been going I doubt I'll ever reactivate. I canceled because I love my class/spec.
I'd encourage anyone who feels the same way about their Priest (or their favorite class and spec) to do the same thing. Just stop. Blizz is a company, and while they may have user forums, money talks a whole lot louder than a million level 10 trolls.
Gormakr Jul 21st 2009 9:51AM
@Eisengel,
I'm surprised you say that. I'm in an Ulduar guild that is progressing nicely through hard modes (XT, Hodir, Thorim, Iron Council all down). Our priests are amazing and I don't think anyone feels they're gimped. Our Disc priest makes a MAJOR impact on tank survivability, our shadow priests aren't on top of the meters, but they're always in the top half and often the top third (part of that is gear - they're slightly behind some of the rest of us), and our holy priests are decent healers (but they're not dominating).
Gimped? Certainly not in PvE. Maybe in PvP, but I can't speak to that.
Nublet Jul 21st 2009 10:29AM
I play a resto druid and I constantly heal Ulduar with a certain Holy priest and his AoE healing is abosolutely amazing. Prayer of Healing is pretty ridiculous. He gets 9k crits on 5 people at a time with that. Unless I'm misunderstanding, that is crazy and in no way gimped. He is the only person I run with that out heals/ right behind me every time. (Not that meters are everything but healing would be so much more broing without them =P)
Continuum6 Jul 21st 2009 12:27PM
@Eisengel
Please excuse me while I roflmao....
Okay, i'm back.
Priests are not free HK. You, sir, are the free HK.
Priests are not now, nor have they been for a long time free honor kills in PvP. I have played a geared (PvP) warlock, Feral druid, Rogue, and DK and I can happily inform you that I never attack a geared preist lightly.
Disc and Holy will outlast your burst forever until their backup arrives if you don;t pull off a perfect stunlock+kick or cyclone combo on them. it has to be flawless to burst them and keep them cc'd long enough to create a kill opportunity when you're 1vs1.
(Again, we're assuming that both opponents are PvP geared, here. I think that you have probably never had full PvP gear. You sound like a whiny casual. But if you're casual, then why are you QQing over PvP balance. Does a casual player really care that much about PvP? And if you're not casual, and are really involved in your class, get some PvP gear chump. Of course some cricket in full Furious is going to steamroll your ass if you're not geared. Hate to break it to ya, but gear matters.)
Shadow Priests are just as competent. I know of one particular s-priest that i see in WG on my server all the time. I have never seen her die. 24k health and she's a good player.
My instinct concerning you, Eisengel, is that you probly just suck, and you were leaning on some OP aspect of your class that BLizz removed some time ago. (i'm a post-tBC-baby, so i'm not familiar with earlier class builds). When the crutch was gone, you fell on your butt.
L2p and stfu
Continuum6 Jul 21st 2009 12:27PM
Most classes are more often more balanced in PvP that people think. It's just a fact: not everyone is born to be a good video gamer. Nothing Blizz does to balance classes will change the fact that you suck your own rear end when you play a video game. Hand-eye coordination not your thing? Sorry, there's lots of things in life you can do very well still. Video games are not one of those things.
Para Jul 21st 2009 1:08PM
Eisengel- What are you talking about priests are in a good state atm.
Their ONLY problems are shadow in pvp being a free kill, and being bursted down by pure damage by classes like rogues and dks in pvp.
Other than that pve wise they are a pretty well rounded class.
Andrew R. Jul 20th 2009 9:17PM
A bit off topic but why does he put "Not Tracked" in some of his posts exactly?
Oznak Jul 20th 2009 9:20PM
Because some of them aren't serious and he doesn't want them to be taken as the gospel by blue trackers. Thus, "[Not Tracked]"
alex Jul 20th 2009 9:26PM
He (GC) is obviously a smart guy, but I think he's focused too much on balancing - which, too frequently in the past, meant balancing around people enjoying peek-a-boo in arenas. Balancing is fine and all, but I wish they'd just take say one patch and work on ironing kinks out with classes.
Why?
Because they will NEVER make all the classes completely balanced the way players think of as balanced - 1 on 1. Not without there only being 1 class, heh.
So why not just chill out on the "balancing" and fix glitches with the classes? I'm not even saying "fix shards or rage" I'm just saying "clean stuff up." There are tons of useless or near useless spells. Figure out something to do with them. Also, give more classes unique/cool/fun abilities.
Or how about the ability to cast certain buffs on ground mounts? How about fixing the *$(#$%&! tooltips? Hell, balancing is just one way to make the game more fun...
Gessilea Jul 20th 2009 9:47PM
I don't know that he's necessarily focused on balance, more that it's something the community focuses on, so a lot of his posts address it. Also, I would guess that the team that does bug fixes/coding is not the same team that does design stuff. Just guessing on that one, though.
Jeremy Jul 21st 2009 8:51AM
I very much agree with this comment!
Balancing a game so that playable classes are say equal while good in thought extremely difficult in design! The reason? Well, games like WoW are meant to have cooperation and that means that some classes will be good at some things with others good a different things; that's the nature of the beast. Not every class should be able to solo everything easily. Every class has their unique flavor and a player has to modify his/her play-style to accommodate their classes limitations. For example the play styles between a mage and a warrior are completely different! Both have their strengths and weaknesses. But those differences is what makes this game fun and cooperations in some cases an absolute must. Balancing out every class would diminish the "roles" they were meant to fill.
My last point. Blizzard has further complicated the balance thing by allowing every class 3 different talent options. I believe by doing this for all classes, while making game more immersive and customizable, it really puts a thumb up to balance! As many of us know some classes are not balanced with other classes (that's as it should be though) but the real problem is talent trees within the same class are grossly unbalanced. I believe that's the major route to the problem of balance starts with the class talent trees. If Blizzard could make each talent tree viable for solo and party play there would likely be more of that class around due to more play-style options and survivability.
Walter Jul 20th 2009 9:37PM
"if you feel like you want to be a Priest, you'll play them no matter how underpowered they are."
Umm, no? I roll a holy paladin, so my raid healing abilities are still something left to be desired. Hence why I'm rolling a resto shaman now. (Maybe I misunderstood the point you were trying to make)
Some of the class balance measures I have seen are clearly geared towards PVP situations (I can't think of anything specific but I know I just got a lot of "Hell yeah"s from people reading that), and I think that frustrates a lot of us PVE players when we get nerfed because of something that is a little OP in PVP situations.
Idran Jul 20th 2009 10:23PM
You did misunderstand it. From the way you describe your situation, you don't "want to be a [Paladin]", you want to be a good healer. It isn't the class that you're looking for, it's the role. That quote is talking about people that are looking to be a specific class no matter how good or bad it becomes; in terms of the specific quote, someone that wants to be a Priest even if it isn't the best healer, even if it becomes the worst healer.
Deathgodryuk Jul 21st 2009 1:10AM
What Idran said. I'm a rogue, I'll always be a rogue. Doesn't matter what nerfs/buffs come my way, it'll always be my favorite class.
andy Jul 21st 2009 5:20AM
i love my mage, i will always love my mage, i will always play my mage.
i played my mage through the end of burning crusade, when we were worth half a warlock,
i love how the class plays, i love the amouth of effort ive put into it. im not gunna reroll so i can do 3% more dmg, because i enjoy playing my mage.
MechChef Jul 21st 2009 9:39AM
The starcraft/wow comparison is apples/oranges, though. If you're getting wrecked as protoss, you're one match away from swapping to zerg/terran.
We don't have quite that much....horizontal mobility.
Clint Jul 21st 2009 10:06AM
(prot) Warrior here.
Sometimes I might QQ over tank balance or whatnot... but I would never re-roll. Even if a new MMO rolls around, I'll still pick the meat shield.