Druid Q&A followup
In a somewhat surprising turn of events, the devs have decided to do a followup to the recent Druid Q&A, tackling certain things with more specifics rather than the general approach they took originally. The followup seems mostly aimed at Druid PvP, perhaps an omen of the future. It reminds me much more of the unofficial Shadow Priest Q&A that Ghostcrawler tackled, addressing very specific issues.For convenience, the full followup can be read below.
Q: Players feel that the effect of Feral Cat Charge isn't as good as the Feral Bear Charge yet the cat charge has double the cooldown. What is the reasoning behind the cooldown difference of these two abilities?
A: Feral Charge Bear mirrors warrior Charge (15 sec), while Feral Charge Cat mirrors Shadowstep (30 sec). They are really different abilities. We just had to put them on a shared cooldown to keep the druid from using them back to back.
Q: Are we satisfied with the damage that Shred does without a bleed/mangle effect on the target compared to how much it does with the bleed effect?A: Shred ultimately needs the bleed requirement and the positional requirements met to make it work optimally. We buffed Mangle to make it a better button in PvP when you can't get the most out of Shred. But Shred still does great damage when you can use it.
Q: What is the reasoning behind leaving the positional requirement for Shred in the game after removing this requirement from the Rogue ability Mutilate?
A: The analog to Shred is Backstab, which is positional. We like the positional requirement because without it, Shred is just a damage ability, and we think the positional requirement is one of those skill cap issues that lets good Ferals do more damage than mediocre Ferals. Really though, the underlying issue here is that we are happy with Feral damage in PvP. Also remember the secondary benefit of positional requirements, which is that the enemy often needs to keep in movement to keep you from getting behind them.
We don't think Ferals need to do more damage to be good in PvP. What they need to do is be able to survive (while in cat – they do okay in bear), and the fact that if you're looking for a melee partner, one who brings Mortal Strike might be more attractive.
Q: Players felt we are not giving much attention to balance and feral druid PvP concerns when their arena success is very limited. Can you give us a more definitive answer on how we feel about these specs in PvP?
A: We wish there were more teams with Feral and Balance druids on them, and wish we saw more Feral and Balance gladiators. In short, we think they are underperforming. The reason we haven't showered those two specs in PvP buffs are because: A) Druids have a great PvP spec they can use, while hunters and perhaps warlocks and shamans have none. B) A lot of the specs that are underperforming are doing so because they don't have the ability to chain CC or multiple escape mechanisms. We don't want to give those to every class. We'd rather change the PvP environment to where those aren't all necessary. We also want to de-emphasize the 2 vs. 2 bracket and emphasize BGs a lot more so that the entire PvP experience doesn't come down to the synergy you have with other classes. And again, it's not necessarily that their abilities don't cut it – it's that when you're putting a team together, a mage or rogue might be more attractive.
Q: What is the reasoning behind allowing Warstomp to be useable in Tree of Life and Moonkin forms (assuming this is correct) but Bear and Cat forms have to shift out to use it?
A: You need to be in a humanoid form to do abilities like Warstomp. Tree of Life and Moonkin (and also things like Shadowform) are considered humanoid. They are bipedal for instance. This is a data construct more than a strict balance reason.
Q: With the changes on the PTR, what forms of interrupts and what forms of stuns do we plan for druids to have in patch 3.2?
A: Maim and Bash are interrupts on monsters. Feral Charge is an interrupt on monsters and players. Maim, Bash and Pounce are all stuns and never interrupt players. The stun itself will often stop the spell, but may not in the case of a Blinking mage.
Filed under: Druid, Analysis / Opinion, Blizzard
Patch 5.3 interview with Ghostcrawler
Mystery of the Unborn Val'kyr
The latest patch 5.3 news
All of the latest Mists of Pandaria news





Reader Comments (Page 2 of 3)
Jeremy Jul 22nd 2009 9:38AM
I completely agree with Daniel...
I've tried SM several times in raids to the same result - I'm DEAD, just like everyone else! That even goes for not having any debuffs or threat. For example: fighting a boss in 25man Naxx - several people were going down so everyone agreed to let the raid fall. I thought, hmm experiment time. I had no debuffs and I had no threat from the boss, so I went to the farthest spot I could reach directly away from the boss and popped SM. With the boss targeted I watched all my teammates fall except for me and a hunter who was performing the same experiment but with feign death. Once the last person fell (except for me and the hunter of course), my threat on the boss went from 0% to 100% instantly he came right over to me in SM and then I was dead! After me, the boss went right next door to my hunter friend and then there was none! So as far as SM goes in raids.....useless (as well as feign death)!
However SM in PvE is a whole different issue, yes it can save your butt in a boss fight, but just like warstomp, you'll switch back to humanoid form and loose all of your energy and/or rage. However, I see much more utility in Warstomp than I do SM. At least with WS you can drop a heal without as much time for interruption and then return to the fight, where you left off. If you pop a SM right in front of the guy, you leave combat and the bosses health goes back to 100, while you stand there with your pants down at the same health you had when you popped SM. Yes you are out of combat, but now you can't move. At this point you risk the boss detecting you and starting the battle all over but this time you are in a much worse starting state. I think I'd prefer WS in PvE versus SM.
In my opinion both racial talents have their pluses and minuses! Either of them if used in the right combination (with other abilities) or at the right time, can save your butt in a fight.
Sorcefire Jul 22nd 2009 12:04PM
One to remember is that SM was changed in 3.1 I think. It only takes you out of combat while you are stealthed. Upon unstealthing you regain all aggro you had on the boss and/or are now a target should everyone else be dead.
It was like a permanent Vanish before the change and was very helpful in boss wipes. Now it's an "oh shit" button to drop aggro if you pull from the tank.
Potsos Jul 21st 2009 7:51PM
Ferals should NOT get to utilize Warstomp in forms. Druids already cannot be snared/immobilized and their opponents are permanently slowed by the highly skillful use of auto-attack. If you need a breather, quit using Bash offensively and save it for when it's really needed. If you're in cat form, you're going to have to suck it up and switch to bear and Bash or switch out and Cyclone. If you're unable to do either of these things, you're being focused and deserve to die like anyone else in that situation.
Is it not enough that you have the single highest damage melee ability in the game in Shred and opponents ALWAYS have their back to you because they are in a constant state of running away to create distance?
Get better.
Stealthfire Jul 21st 2009 10:23PM
"Druids already cannot be snared/immobilized and their opponents are permanently slowed by the highly skillful use of auto-attack."
We very much can be snared, we just have to shift like crazy to get out of it. And if you hadn't noticed, shifting a takes mana. A lot of it. Admittedly ferals probably fare best against snares of any class/spec in the game, but that's different from being immune to them.
Also, Infected Wounds is caused by Maul, Shred, and Mangle, NOT auto-atttack. It also only lasts 12 seconds, which may seem like an eternity in PvP but is hardly permanent.
Continuum6 Jul 22nd 2009 12:08PM
Hahahaha
It does seem like there are a lot of people out there who...
1.) Hate druids.
2.) Think druids are all QQ babies.
3.) Complain about how OP druids are in PvE,PvP, etc.
4.) Know jack f-ing squat about REAL druid gameplay mechanics.
"...highly skillful use of auto-attack"
Um... so... are you talking movement speed slow? Or casting speed slow? If you're saying it's unfair that your mage spells are slowed by casting pushback....
Then tough. Blizz put that in the game. Stealthers hit fast. Reroll if you hate casting pushback or casting in general. ( I did, warlock was my first toon. rerolled stealther classes )
Are you talking about movement speed slow?
That's called Infected Wounds. It's a talent. Our special abilities cause it. Not auto-attacks. Cantor (above) was right. I have a rogue. Rogues slow with auto-attacks. Crippling Poison. Postos.... you aren't very familiar with any classes but your own (whatever that is) are you? /lame
NE Shadowmeld is not OP in PvP because it does not clear DoTs, and druids unlike rogues have NO way of removing non-curse DoTs. (Sorry Curse of Agony, you lose.) You have any idea how many DoTs are flying around a BG / arena match? LOTS. That's how many.
If you are fighting a druid of any kind, especially a Feral, and you fail to put whatever DoT damage attacks are available to your class on the druid... then you fail at PvP L2p.
Stealthers can restealth...
People who fight them don't want them to restealth...
Blizz doesn't want stealthers to be OP...
Blizz has given every class at least one spec with a DoT attack...
Players can use DoTs to keep stealthers from restealthing...
WoW!!! :D
Even if you are a person who continues to view Shadowmeld as an OP ability, just DoT the druid and you won't have to fear Shadowmeld.
NE Shadowmeld is not OP in PvE because it simply isn't. It's a gimicky PvE ability that allows you to not die from the adds when you're grinding dailies (as if a geared player has anything to fear from adds in daily grinding anyway). Instance viability is iffy at best, because of DoT and AoE damage issues in the vast majority of boss encounters that will negate Shadowmeld.
Am i missing anything?
Oh, and to all you druids out there who are QQing about technical dps and roation issues, but know nothing about the classes you're comparing yourselves to:
Shred is an obvious copy of Backstab.
Mangle is an obvious copy of Mutilate.
Both function identically to their parent abilities. stop the QQ, and just realize that you fail. If positional requirements are too much for you to handle when dpsing...
REROLL A F-ING DIFFERENT CLASS.
Rogues and druids are obviously not your cup of tea if positional requirements or the overall rotation are too difficult for you. I would suggest a ranged dps class to those of you who fail at rogue or druid dps.
Being behind the boss is already a requirement for all melee dps (except on certain encounters). If maintaining a positional requirement is too hard for you, then you shouldn't be playing a melee dps.
Not enough time to reroll another class? Your game-time is limited by real life factors?
Umm... that's not Blizz's fault and it's not any of ours either.
Too bad. That's life. Ever hear the phrase: "Can't have your cake and eat it too." ??
It means something. Look it up.
dillonwelch Jul 21st 2009 7:56PM
So I'm confused. Tree of Life is considered a humanoid in terms of being able to use warstomp but they're considered elementals in terms of being able to be banished. Double standards?
Crööl Jul 21st 2009 8:01PM
I was going to say the same thing dillonwelch. ToL is Elemental.. we get banished.. walking upright is now considered humanoid? You guys work very hard and I am not ashamed to say I love WoW.. but that is some weird reasoning.
DaveyMcDave Jul 21st 2009 8:06PM
They said a humanoid form, not *be* a humanoid. Trees are generally in the shape of humans, are bipedal, and can bash the floor with their foot shaped roots, meaning warstomp makes perfect sense. Cats and bears are quadrupedal and do not resemble humans. It is perfectly possible for something to be both humanoid looking and an elemental.
Nublet Jul 22nd 2009 1:22AM
"Trees are generally in the shape of humans"
Lol at taking quotes out of context
Luse Jul 22nd 2009 9:45AM
How about Cats being able to be sapped which is supposed to be restricted to humanoid, yet also being able to be feared by Hunters.
Osc Jul 22nd 2009 10:12AM
The last rank of sap also works on beasts/dragonkin.
Captn Obvious Jul 22nd 2009 10:17AM
@Luse
LOL. You are funny.
You get sapped because they loosened the restriction on sap to include beasts.
You get feared by a hunter because you are a beast for 'Scare Beast'.
Luse Jul 22nd 2009 11:30AM
Ah, that's my bad. Didn't know they changed Sap.
G Jul 21st 2009 8:08PM
"Feral Charge Cat mirrors Shadowstep.."
Shadowstep doesn't give a temporary damage boost and threat reduction anymore? If mirroring Shadowstep is going to be the reason for a longer cooldown, let's go ahead and mirror Shadowstep. While fun, Kittehcharge doesn't actually do much yet.
Worcester Jul 21st 2009 8:59PM
Shadowstep is a deep Sub talent that almost no Rogue uses anymore because we've all had to respec to keep up with the insane amount of damage done by the hybrid classes. I'm guessing that every Feral Druid gets the Cat Charge? How nice for you.
Please QQ more.
G Jul 21st 2009 9:33PM
Lol, I didn't bring it up. Ghostcrawler did. Aim your noob QQ gun elsewhere, rogue.
Eturyu Jul 21st 2009 9:53PM
feral charge IS a talen you have to spend, NOT every feral gets, you QQ more
Worcester Jul 21st 2009 10:35PM
I know Ghostcrawler called it a mirror image. I never implied otherwise.
The point is that just because a Rogue's Shadowstep has certain benefits, that doesn't mean that a Druid's Cat Charge should get the exact same benefits just because someone called it a "mirror" skill. It's similar. Not exact.
And are you seriously comparing your 21 point talent to my 41 point talent? You think those should be the same, do you?
Interesting. Until now I thought the Bear Charge and the Cat Charge were different talents. How come no one pointed out that you get both for that one talent point? I'm sure a lot of Feral Druids pass on that ability. So just because you're a Feral Druid, it doesn't mean you automatically get the ability.
Yeah...
G Jul 21st 2009 10:45PM
You're still missing the point, saucy Worcestershire. The cooldowns between bear and cat are different. Ghostcrawler used some mythical parallel between cat charge and Shadowstep as the reason why. If that were true, hence everything else. But it's not. Get it?
Lea & Perrins, ftw btw.
Worcester Jul 22nd 2009 7:42PM
No G, you very clearly implied that since Feral Charge is supposed to be a "mirror" skill, that you should get the threat reduction and damage bonus like Shadowstep. Just because one skill is compared to another doesn't mean they are the same.
Ghostcrawler said it best in the original post.
"A: Feral Charge Bear mirrors warrior Charge (15 sec), while Feral Charge Cat mirrors Shadowstep (30 sec). They are really different abilities. We just had to put them on a shared cooldown to keep the druid from using them back to back."