Do tanks get the most out of PuGs?
by Allison Robert 
Jul 26th 2009 at 2:00PM
I've written here before about how much I enjoy pugging and how 5-mans are still my favorite part of the game, but that was always written from the perspective of a Druid who usually tanked. Even if you're not sitting on great gear, a competent tank can still compensate for a player's having blundered into a patrol, or a pet on aggressive, or someone else's inexperience with the dungeon; they simply adjust and pull with these potential issues in mind. My Shaman, by contrast, can do very little about these problems except attempt to outheal whatever damage results -- and I've learned that I can't always do this. Healers are at the mercy of everyone else's gear, experience, and latency, and it makes a sad kind of sense that so many of them are adamant about vetting potential groups before getting themselves involved.
Maybe my Shaman's luck with pugs will change at 80 with more experience and better gear, but something tells me that if my shammy and not my Druid had been my main, I would have had a very different, and not entirely welcome, experience with LFG.
*Players kept getting one-shot by Ingvar's Smash and the axe AoE. "Why didn't they move out of it?" you (reasonably) ask. I still do not know.
Filed under: Druid, Shaman, Analysis / Opinion, Breakfast Topics, Instances, Classes
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 8)
Aarkan Jul 26th 2009 2:06PM
LFG chat will look like this when 3.2 comes out.
Crusade 5man LFG link [Realm First! Death's Demise!] PST
regisfrost Jul 26th 2009 2:29PM
Some will definitely want to see your [Argent Valor] achievement since first boss is just jousting.
JJV Jul 26th 2009 2:41PM
Allison,
your new problem is this "I've healed normal 5-mans" Healing PuGs is a lot harder and a lot more work than tanking them.
As a tank you just make sure you have the mobs, as a healer it is totally different especially if your tank and DPS aren't functioning optimally.
I have tanked, healed and DPS'd the all 5 mans and healing is always the one with more stress and more responsibility. Tanks can mess up and let a DPS take an add (or a DPS can over agro) and you are the one who has to deal with it since you are healing.
"My Shaman, by contrast, can do very little about these problems except attempt to outheal whatever damage results -- and I've learned that I can't always do this. Healers are at the mercy of everyone else's gear, experience, and latency, and it makes a sad kind of sense that so many of them are adamant about vetting potential groups before getting themselves involved." At least you understand the problem (unlike some of the healers I have been with =/)
Good Luck with your shaman hitting 80!
notworksafe Jul 26th 2009 5:39PM
Don't take this the wrong way Allison, but perhaps you are just a better at tanking than healing.
Agerath Jul 26th 2009 7:03PM
I'm a raiding pala with dual holy/prot specs and while tanking requires actual effort, for the most part, outside of Ulduar, I can pretty much switch off and play whack-a-mole with the health bars.
It really isn't taxing, and wasn't back when I was in blues.
Then again, I've been holy since BC, starting in heroics and progressing to BT/MH, so its not like I'm new to healing.
If tanks do get the most out of heroics--not sure what that question is supposed to mean, anyway--they deserve to, since it is by far the most taxing job assuming similar skill levels of all three roles.
Bob Dewane Jul 26th 2009 11:31PM
@JJV
"Tanks can mess up and let a DPS take an add (or a DPS can over agro) and you are the one who has to deal with it since you are healing."
Really? And you've tanked? So when the noob (insert squishie DPS class) that doesn't have Omen goes all-out and over-aggros a mob, you just let them "take an add?" Take an add how? Like in the face when it one-shots them and the group wipes? I find that i've gotta be extra vigilant in PUGs because I don't know how well, if at all, the DPS is paying attention to aggro. Despite the fact that WotLK is, by and large, an AOE party, it DOES NOT mean that DPS can just blow all their cooldowns on every trash pull for the purpose of topping Recount.
"As a tank you just make sure you have the mobs, as a healer it is totally different especially if your tank and DPS aren't functioning optimally."
Boy I never realized that tanking is so stress free. I need to take tanking lessons from you because in your world, I wouldn't have to pay attention to my own cooldowns in case the healer wipes, or goes OOM, or AFK, or DCs; in addition to having to make sure I'm not having to pry mobs off the e-peen stroking Recount addicts mentioned above. I must be doing it all wrong because it never occurred to me that healing is "totally different" as far as responsibility goes. Those poor healers, having to worry about whether the tank and DPS are functioning "optimally."
It hurts my head to read this stuff. I'm not saying that healers don't take their share of the blame when things go wrong in 5-mans, but COME ON!!! Tanks cannot just walk in, pull and quit paying attention to everything while the healer stresses out over gear and "optimal" functioning of the tank and DPS. Gimmie a break.
Cyrranin Jul 27th 2009 9:47AM
I've tanked and healed all the 5 mans on my 80 warrior, druid, paladin and shaman. (And my 72 priest is working on it too now.)
And there are two types of of PuGs. Smart groups and stupid groups. It is much easier to tank for a stupid group then it is to heal it.
Spazmoose Jul 27th 2009 10:09AM
@Bob Dewane
"Tanks cannot just walk in, pull and quit paying attention to everything"
Actually, we did have a druid tank that was able to do just that, specifically on Loatheb. He would go in, aggro Loatheb, wait until 2-3 spores had been popped by the DPS, then literally get up from his computer to go grab a snack & a drink. Given, that is more of a special circumstance because the spores eliminate aggro, but still possible in some situations.
Brian Jul 27th 2009 10:35AM
As someone who plays a Holy Paladin, Resto Shaman, Resto Druid, and Holy/Disc Priest, I have to say Resto Shamans definitely have it the toughest in 5 mans, Resto druids and Holy Paladins are the worst 5 man healers, I would say paladins are actually worse though on some instances (cleanse totem=drool, sometimes)
Shastern Jul 27th 2009 12:26PM
Bob Dewane, what article did YOU read, because your comments sure don't have anything to do with this one.
Zinn Jul 27th 2009 1:41PM
@Bob Dewane
We had a tank dc some min into the XT-Deconstructor fight. Fortunately the rest of the raid managed to keep him aggro'd and alive without him even being online (for as long as his char was still logged on).
So I can't say tanking seems very difficult.
But every problem that arises isn't, of course, due to a tanks nubness. The entire group of people is responsible to make things run smoothly by every way they can, which doesn't simply mean "win dps-meters" by the dps and so on.
Naix Jul 27th 2009 2:23PM
For true.
No surprise here that a OP Shaman can clear with a PUG.
Is there nothing Shamans can't do? So OP I love them!
Aracross Jul 26th 2009 2:09PM
I've pugged my way with a resto shaman and a discipline priest UK, pretty a bunch of times.
And, believe me, healing with a shaman isn't the easiest or funniest thing in that instance. Being discipline it was cookie
Tobert Jul 26th 2009 2:19PM
` Agreed.
` I ran as a druid tank for all of BC as well, i tryed swithing to resto with the influx of DK's and HATED it. Thin i roled dis, i am not claming it to be the best healing speck, but for dealing with stupid people in the wrong place at the wrong time Medagation is King.
Allison Robert Jul 26th 2009 2:18PM
I've healed UK a lot on my Druid, and I think you're right; Ingvar is definitely a lot easier for a Druid or Priest healer than a Shaman (or, I expect, Paladin). Most of our difficulty came from players who either couldn't or wouldn't get out of AoE effects, though. Trying to heal the unhealable (especially while Ingvar's charging up a Roar) is marvelously unfun. :(
kabshiel Jul 26th 2009 4:02PM
Healing almost everything is easier as a druid or priest than a shaman or paladin. They just have a lot more tools at their disposal. While this isn't such a huge deal in raids, since there are multiple healers who will hopefully excel at different roles, it's kind of a pain in 5-mans.
Cailleach Jul 26th 2009 6:24PM
Really? I'd MUCH rather heal with my shammy than my druid. I find it much more interesting and challenging then HoT, HoT, HoT, oshitswiftmend, HoT.
Alison, one thing that CAN make your job a lot easier is proactive totems. That is, really use the heck out of your resist totems, and feel comfy swapping out totems from pull to pull. If you aren't using them to their full advantage already, that can really help.
One thing Shamans have problems with is big big burst damage, since we have very limited instant heals. Keeping any enviromental damage down as low as possible can really help make the difference between a 15K crit on a 18K health tank and a 15K crit on a 18K tank with 4K of fire damage. Yea, 18K is low, but I'm trying to remember lvl 70 numbers. Flopping down nature resist, fire resist, cleansing, healing stream, tremor totems, wind shocking casters (even if they're not targeting you personally) all can be more help than you think likely until you do it. Beside, it's FUN!
Other than that, all a healer can do, sometimes, is put their foot down HARD. I feel totally comfortable saying to a group 'OK, the tank knows his job, I can heal, so the wipes are NOT our fault. If you guys can't get away from the axes and melee *stand behind the boss*, don't even think about asking for heals.' And then the next wipe, don't even bother with anyone who stands in front of a smash except the tank. Then point out exactly who died due to zero heals. /hug
Gothia Jul 27th 2009 3:02AM
I disagree. If you have a good tank that is solid on aggro it can make a world of difference to the entire group. If you have good dps that can stay out of environmentals and chop mobs down it makes a world of difference to how quickly you can go through an instance lessening the time the tank needs to sustain damage and the amount of mana you healer has to expend. Without one or both of these components your healer can do nothing to influence the outcome of the group.
To say one part of the triad is more important than another is silly.
Bod Jul 27th 2009 7:31AM
kabshiel sort of summed it up - really comparing healing 5 man instances isn't a valid thing to do. Priests and druids are always going to have an easier time of it, they are built to be more flexible (note i didn't say better).
lazymangaka Jul 26th 2009 2:14PM
Gear has a lot to do with it, but you're right--tanks are a bit more fool-proof in PuGs than healers are. DPS classes also have a pretty good time of it, provided you're good at what you do. A healer, however, is constantly in a state of playing catch-up at the best of times and it's even worse with a less-than-stellar group.