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7-27-2009 @ 3:45PM
I do not understand the mentality behind trying Hard Modes before having achieved all you can on the normal modes. You will be potentially be under geared for the encounter and the progression just isn't logical. When you first started playing computer games did you from level 5 to level 10? No. You went from 1-10 progressing at a regular and logical rate.I am part of the leadership of a fairly new 10 man raiding guild that has cleared Ulduar. We have started workinn on hard modes and have made solid progression with these but we always made it clear to our raiders that hard modes would only be attempted once Yogg had died. Once he went down we got cracking on hard modes with players who were adequately geared and had a good idea of what Ulduar consisted of.I think the way we went about things meant that we maintained morale, gear and knowledge and didn't suffer burn out from excessive wiping.
7-27-2009 @ 3:53PM
Ugh. Must learn to proof read before hitting "Add Comment".
7-27-2009 @ 7:46PM
Well, I'll give you a perfect scenario! In fact, I'll give you two!Let's say you're on Yogg and you're having problems, as most people who get to Yogg do for the first three weeks or so. You can get to Yogg so easily, too. It's practically effortless. You think maybe along the way you can kill bosses that will drop better items that will help you beat Yogg? We certainly did. It was a huge difference when our DK tank upgraded from Titansteel Destroyer to Aesir's Edge (he had terrible luck with drops in Naxx25). It was a huge difference for the DPS who got their hard mode weapons too, since all the 10-man hard mode weapons are ilevel 232.In terms of difficulty, Yogg is significantly harder than doing Orbit-uary or Heartbreaker. FL is just figuring out the proper arrangement and duties of the vehicles and their passengers, and XT is all about DPS, keeping distances, and watchful healers.#2: Let's say you play an underappreciated class that Blizzard doesn't fully support. What do I mean by that? I mean that they have decided you simply do not need gear and that no gear will drop for you. No, I am not complaining about the RNG, I'm saying that there are numerous specs that simply do not have an upgrade through the "normal" progression (such as mine--elemental shaman). I am still using an iLv 213 weapon due to the fact that Blizzard thought it would be hilarious to make my only upgrade drop from Yogg 25 and make all the other casters want it too. Fortunately, they also have a weapon in Vezax 10 Hard mode with similar stats and a different type so I don't get outrolled by everybody else (though the problem now is that Vezax's hard mode is the 2nd hardest hard mode). There are no bracers, belts, rings, legs, hands, shoulders, or boots in Uld10 for my spec, either.When I first heard about Hard modes, I thought it would be just like the way they've implemented it in the new raid--the same gear you can get from the normal raid with better stats. Unfortunately, they decided that they could not drop every spec's item in one mode of difficulty, so they spread out the loot you need to get geared over all four Ulduars. When your group isn't really super-geared to even do Hodir's hardmode, isn't big enough to get a 25 going, and obviously cannot do 25-man hard modes, you're basically limiting yourself to a quarter of the loot that is intended for your class. Good luck getting geared.
7-28-2009 @ 9:13AM
Whilst I can understand the scenarios you describe I do not believe them to be valid. Please do not take this personally or as me being elitist but it defeats the point to me if you have to outgear an encounter in order to defeat it.You're complaint of "only" having a 213 weapon is a bit silly. 90% of the raids gear was iLvl 200 when we downed Yogg. We've never raided 25 man and some of us even had a few pieces of gear that were from 5 man heroics. We downed Yogg on our 3rd week of being in Ulduar without completing any hard modes. We still had the heals to keep everyone up, the dps to kill all we needed to and the tanks were sufficiently geared to be kept alive. We wiped a LOT on that first night but we also walked out of Ulduar having seen Yogg for the first time and having killed him for the first time(this was also the first night we had seen General Vezax). Maybe we're just very lucky in that we can get 10 players who have the skills, intelligence and communication to make gear less of a clinching factor when downing bosses.I stand by the idea that logical progression dictates you complete normal modes first and then move onto hard modes. It simply makes far more sense to me. A few of our raiders were very keen to start on hard modes before Yogg went down but having laid down the law in the way that we did I think it may have even helped motivate people to perform. If knowing that downing Yogg means they will get a chance at that sweet sword that XT hard mode drops they would be more likely to put their all into getting Yogg down. It also means that we don't have the normal encounters looming over us whilst we progress through hard modes. We know we can down every boss in normal mode so now we can try and up the ante a bit and see how it goes without ever thinking "maybe we shouldn't be doing this yet".I would also suggest that being a purely 10 man guild helps us with this. We have a much smaller community and everyone knows each other better than they potentially would in a 25 man guild. This helps as it's easier to set and communicate common goals and be sure that all are happy with them.
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