Scattered Shots: Hunter Q&A Part 1
by Eddie Carrington 
Jul 31st 2009 at 8:00PM
Good day folks and welcome to Scattered Shots. The column that takes a good look at what it takes to be a Hunter in the World of Warcraft. I am Eddie "Brigwyn" Carrington from the Hunting Lodge. This week we'll be reviewing the recently released Hunter Q&A.
The Hunter Q&A was like the other Class Q&As, a mixed bag of frustration, tease, and interesting concepts. It shouldn't be a surprise that we didn't get the details we wanted. Nor should it be a complete shock to you that some Hunters would feel disconnected between what players want versus what the Developers are concentrating on. Given all that, I still felt that this Q&A was overall pretty decent. There is so much to review and discuss I've decided to break the Q&A out into 2 parts. Here's a quick highlight of the main things discussed in Part 1:
- Developers feel Survival Hunter spec is currently performing within normal operating parameters.
- Crowd Control still needs work.
- PvP has a big influence on PvE Class Balance
- Ammo remains a consumable because of technical difficulties.
- Ammo is a focus point on Hunter damage progression.
- Blizzard is hoping to cut the cost of Ammo to address the cost burden for Hunters.
- The Hunter "No Fire" zone will remain in effect.
- Development considers enhancing Hunter melee attacks.
The Community Team hit the ground running, getting right to the point. Over on the official Hunter forums, the question, "What does Blizzard think the Hunter role should be?" has been asked repeatedly over the years. Not to disappoint, this was the first question chosen by the Community Team. Because I feel this is so important I included the entire quote below.
"Community Team: We'd like start this Q&A off by asking a question that players of all classes often ask in regard to the very purpose of their class. In this case, we're looking specifically at the hunter.In other words, Ghostcrawler feels the development team has done a good job in making Survival an interesting and popular spec to play again.
Q: Where do hunters fit into the larger scope of things currently and where do we see them going from this point forward?
A: We solved a lot of perennial hunter problems in Wrath of the Lich King, from the shot clipping problems of Steady Shot, to bringing Survival back to life, and making pet choice and training a lot more meaningful and hopefully enjoyable. Going forward we have several objectives we still want to accomplish. We want to make sure hunters in PvP are as good in Arenas as they are in Battlegrounds. We think their damage is sufficient, so we want to focus on their survival and crowd control. We want to make sure their PvE utility is as good as their dps (especially making traps live up to their potential for crowd control). We want to resolve what a hunter is supposed to do in melee (Raptor Strike? Disengage?). We want to clean up some of the clunkiness that still exists around pet control (both the UI itself and what the pet does on the battlefield). We think hunters have a good niche as the only real ranged damage-dealer that focuses on (mostly) physical damage based on a weapon rather than cast-time based spells. We just want to make sure they live up to that niche."
Another interesting point was when Ghostcrawler talked about how he feels about Hunters needing a boost to traps and crowd control. Of course this isn't the first time we've heard this. On a positive note, we can see with the current Patch 3.2 trap changes the developers seem to be heading in that direction.
Also, I got a sense that the changes are based first on their impact to the PvP game and then PvE. This was not specifically said, but it just seems that way. Ghostcrawler did mention they want to improve PvE Hunter utility and crowd control, but did you notice the emphasis on PvP?
When Ghostcrawler says, "We want to make sure hunters in PvP are as good in Arenas as they are in Battlegrounds. We think their damage is sufficient, so we want to focus on their survival and crowd control.", then follows up with, "We want to resolve what a hunter is supposed to do in melee (Raptor Strike? Disengage?)," I felt PvP is where the development team is keeping their primary focus is at the moment. Of course, maybe I'm reading too much into it.
Now that we know what our role is we can get into some of the other issues affecting Hunters. For example, what ever happened to our promised ammo change? Remember back when Patch 3.1 was announced? Ammo was suppose to change from being a consumable to a durable.
It appears to me that in this Q&A Ghostcrawler is setting our expectation to not expect a change to ammo any time soon. (Blizzard time or otherwise.) I understand the whole "Ammo is stored everywhere issue". If you think about it, we have ammo in our bags, our banks, and maybe specialized Mammoth Cuttters in our guild bank. Based on this alone, I can see how it would be a very tricky change.
Something I found exciting was the possibility of introducing new capabilities with our ammo. I really hope that Ghostcrawler isn't just teasing us when he says, "We're not sure if this would be as simple as getting the 125 dps arrows to upgrade your 120 dps arrows, or if you would do things like swap between your fire and poison arrows... but that kind of thing is definitely on the table." I know many Hunters including myself that would love this ability.
With durable ammo on hold, Ghostcrawler addressed the issue of Hunters having an extra cost burden by having to purchase ammo for everything we do. Not only are we required to purchase ammo, but our damage progression is tied directly to it also. So, it was nice hearing that the development team understands we're going to do whatever it takes to get the best ammo we can.
It was also impressive to hear they're going to lower the market cost for the ammo as well as continue looking into other ways to provide proper balance with scaling and progression. If not for GC stating that they are still working on durable ammo, I would think that durable ammo was going to be one of those permanent wish list items.
Ghostcrawler tackled the ever popular "dead zone" or "no fire zone" topic stating that there needs to be some changes. The biggest issue related to the "no fire zone" hinges on Hunters being ranged fighters and having to get back into range to unleash their more powerful attacks.
Ghostcrawler admits that they don't want Hunters to have the capability of unleashing both melee and range attacks all at once. Ghostcrawler says, "The way we want the hunter to work is that when you get into min range with the hunter, then the hunter needs to switch to melee, or more likely escape back to ranged distance again."
With traps being on a separate cool down in the 3.2 Patch, we'll have the capability to lay down Frost and Snake traps to help slow down our target, with an Explosive Trap helping to proc Lock and Load as we Disengage. This is good, but not great. I guess we can't say Ghostcrawler isn't keeping it interesting.
At least this isn't a done deal and Ghostcrawler asked for more feedback from the community. If you PvP and have some ideas on how this might work, maybe you can let Ghostcrawler know over on the Damage Dealing Forums.
That brings us to the end of Part 1 of the Hunter Q&A. Looking back, there are several interesting points. Blizzard admitting how big of a role PvP plays in PvE Class Balancing. Not to mention the possible idea of durable ammo with special abilities. Add to that a focus of bringing crowd control and traps back into the game and this part of the Q&A was pretty packed with information after all. I can't wait to tackle Part 2 next.
Filed under: Hunter, Patches, Analysis / Opinion, Blizzard, Interviews, Forums, (Hunter) Scattered Shots
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Craig R Jul 31st 2009 8:48PM
"The Hunter "No Fire" zone will remain in effect."
The status quo remains intact.
are there hunters that have legitimate complaint about this, in a vacuum? Or just as a symptom of a lack of useful things to do in melee? Or, to rephrase, do hunters hate this because they want to fire shotgun-style, or do they hate it because getting closed on is bad news.
devilsei Jul 31st 2009 9:13PM
You know, why don't they give a hunter a gun-specific ability that can only be used in melee or "no-fire" zone. I know some would hate having more abilities to worry about for certain situations, but I'd love to be able to grab a gun, and if someone gets close, just blast them point-blank and send them back or knock them down. Some low talent could even be implemented (don't shoot me!) that adds an auto-disengage effect to the attack.
Attila Jul 31st 2009 9:26PM
You mean like Scatter Shot?
devilsei Jul 31st 2009 9:38PM
True, but scatter shot is a survival only talent. Maybe they should just make that baseline then, and in its place add in the disengage effect, or at the least make it cause disengage's cooldown to be up on a chance.
Anaughtybear Jul 31st 2009 11:30PM
Please keep the dead zone on hunters. Yes, I play a hunter. No, I do not want to do melee damage. Note to Blizzard: You don't have to pander to every huntard that wants to duel wield some melee damage. You know what hunters are supposed to do. Keep them doing that. If people want melee hunters, they can play their death knights.
I guess people forgot how big the dead zone used to be, or that you had to manually turn on separate melee/ranged auto attacks when things closed distance on you. Hunters are already way easier to play now than they used to be. Is the next step one big button that does everything? Oh, wait. We already have a macro that does something like that.
Olicon Aug 1st 2009 7:40AM
I really wish Bliz would just teach the players by implementing deadzone penalty like all other games.
In KotOR, DDO, and pretty much every other RPG games, you can fire at point blank range. Except firing speed is generally lower than melee. In case of DDO (as far as I got to anyhow), it's 1 shot per 4 to 6 hits from DW characters.
Also, most games have defensive penalty on anyone using range weapons when being attacked in melee range.
People should realize that WoW is already easy mode as far as range weapon's penalty is concerned.
Klinderas Jul 31st 2009 9:08PM
The reason why hunters hate the dead zone is because we're the only ranged class that cannot deal our best kind of damage(i.e ranged) at melee range. Warlocks, mages, boomkins... every other ranged DPS class can still do damage in melee while we cannot.
A ranged class should be in dire straights in melee, this is true. However, hunters are in worse straights than a warlock or a mage in the same situation. I don't think that point blank shooting is the answer, as that would cause hunters to be severely OP(we have enough instant shots that if we could shoot them in melee, it would effectively negate the disadvantage of being in melee). I have always liked the idea that a hunter can melee effectively in a pinch, and that's what I think the answer should be. How to do this is the difficult part, and we'll have to see how Blizzard puts that into the game.
If done properly though, it will give the hunter the chance to do some damage in melee, but not nearly enough to match their ranged power in an extended fight, thereby still forcing skilled hunters to try to get to range.
Athzar Aug 1st 2009 2:06AM
The problem with Hunters not dealing full damage in melee range while other casters can isn't that simple . . . Hunters have pets. So even when the Hunter is at range we still have a pet in the other guy's face interrupting his casts, probably causing stealth issues, slowing casts, stunning him, whatever (depending on the pet).
In other words, we get the benefits of both a ranged class and a melee class at once, which is excellent for PvP (in optimal situations). The downfall is that in sub-optimal situations we suffer.
Boohoo. Keep it as it is.
Malkavos Aug 1st 2009 2:20PM
Casters in melee are limited to instant cast and short cast spells, unless they don't mind tacking an extra second onto all their cast times due to pushback, not to mention becoming vulnerable to the various interrupts available to melee classes.
Hunters are not the only ranged class who gets gimped in melee range, you're just the only class who actually loses the ability to perform certain actions when your target moves into melee range. You are, however, blessed with a lot of utility to help you gain distance and/or prevent melee from closing with you, something that is in short supply for some other ranged classes.
It's just apples and oranges, the only difference is that those are MY ORANGES you're talking about.
Radiophonic Aug 1st 2009 1:31AM
lol 'no fire zone' we don't need it removed. l2kite
Hunterlin Aug 1st 2009 10:21AM
How you do kite shadowstep rogue ? All classes, except may be elemetal shamans, have their tools against kite. Kite was hunters tool in TBC and before, but not now(unless you get immunity to slows as BM).
Clbull Aug 1st 2009 10:30AM
Kiting is hard when other classes have gap closers (e.g. Charge, Intercept, Death Grip etc) and snares (e.g. Spamstring, Crippling Poison, Chains of Ice) and can just run into melee and take us down in very few hits.
The dead zone is also annoying in PvE. Take Malygos for instance, if a Power Spark is killed, you had better hope its not in melee range (or more like the equivalent of 30 yards due to Malygos' massive hitbox.)
That is why I feel that the dead zone needs to be removed.
Tonara Aug 1st 2009 6:17AM
Mage's cant cast shit in melee range... LOL
Gordal Aug 1st 2009 9:27AM
I really don't buy the "ammo stored everywhere" being the problem with the conversion of expendable ammo to new ammo relics. Ammo essentially being a consumable reagent, and consumable reagents having already been "removed" from the game without any trouble (Hey there, Blinding Powder!).
Also, there's precedent for old-for-new trading quests (Old epic mounts for the new ones), so it's not a huge stretch to consider that it's possible to "replace" old ammunition and allow players to trade them for the new relics.
The process goes like this:
1) Rather than replace existing ammo types with equivalent ammo relics, just add the relics as new items. Not hard, since this is something Blizzard has done with every patch.
2) Then replace the existing ammo types with equivilent junk/quest items (Like how Blinding Powder became Worthless Blinding Powder), stackable to their current size (For instance, if Terrorshaft Arrows become Dulled Terrorshaft Arrows, Dulled Terrorshaft Arrows still stack in lots of 1,000). Again, this is not hard, since Blizzard already has done this in recent history.
3) Now set a price for the new relics and then sell them at ammo merchants in place of the original ammo types. Increase the cost somewhat. If a player then wants to just replace their ammo with the new relic, they can just buy them straight off the nearest ammunition dealer. Not hard.
4) Create a few quests to allow players to trade old ammo for new relics. I'd wager that most Hunters, if they weren't low on ammo before the patch, tend to try and keep above 5,000 rounds of ammo, so use this value as a trade price: 5,000 dulled ammo for 1 ammo relic. Make the quest a one-time only trade (So anyone who stocked up on ammo beforehand can't make a killing just trading ammo for expensive relics), and not count towards achievements such as Loremaster and Seeker. Give these quests to, say, Bounty Hunter Korlak in Orgrimmar and whatever his Alliance counterpart is. Y'know, the guy that trades Thorium Shells for Thorium Headed Arrows. Since Blizzard already has done quests like this, this step shouldn't be hard.
5) If you want to drive the point home for players who don't read the patch notes, and to stall any questions of "omg my weapon dun work", send out an in-game mail to all Hunters (And maybe Warriors and Rogues) from Korlak (Or his Alliance counterpart) telling them that they're interested in trading antique arrows and shells for new gear. Blizzard has done this with the riding skill changes, so this isn't hard.
All it takes is some effort.
Clbull Aug 1st 2009 10:32AM
This
I think by turning the existing ammo into junk items which drop between 20 - 50 a time from certain mobs, Blizzard could somewhat bypass the issues that removing it altogether would have brought.
perderedeus Aug 1st 2009 9:32AM
Anaughtybear, you say that you play a hunter yet you do everything to perpetuate an untrue stereotype - there is no "do everything" macro for a hunter in Wrath. In TBC, that macro was only applicable to Beast Mastery anyway (which is something of a moot point as anyone worth their raid spot was playing as BM). In Wrath, each spec has to do their part to maintain a rotation or a priority queue and a macro will only help with the rare off-GCD ability like Bestial Wrath, Silencing Shot, or Kill Command, and MANY classes have abilities and resultant macros like that.
Clbull Aug 1st 2009 10:25AM
Imho, I think that Blizzard should:
A) Reduce the cost of ammo even more, and make it purchaseable/createable in stacks of 1000 rather than 200, like how much it stacks at the moment. Either that or remove the need for them altogether and introduce non consumeable Relic style items that boost Damage Per Second and even have secondary effects like additional Fire, Frost, Arcane etc damage.
B) Fix our "5 yards or less and you're screwed" range issues. We're the only class with a minimum range which is quite unfair in PVP (as we rely on kiting all the time, which is near impossible long term due to the amount of snares/gap closers other classes have), and in PvE (particularly when tactics involve hugging the boss/tank or the boss has a massive hitbox)
C) Give us Auto Shot whilst moving. I dislike Ghostcrawler's argument that moving should be a "penalty." I don't see Mages getting a damage penalty when they can just run around spamming their high critting instants.
beergoglez Aug 1st 2009 2:14PM
you guys seriously dont need your dead zone taken away...iv seen alot of good hunters and they never get touched...so if you cant keep someone at bay with all the stunning/sleeping/slowing shots you have even several traps that slow and hold you there (if specced) then theres something wrong with you...sure...warriors have charge thats what a traps for...a rogue shadowsteps to you..lay down a trap or even wingclip/disengage...i dont play a high level hunter but from my experience from just the 30-39 bracket...hunters have alot of tools at there disposal to get away/stay away from there oppenent...just need to learn to use them..
p.s even your pets can stun/hold your enemies still...imo you have too many way of staying away..
Clbull Aug 1st 2009 6:34PM
This is what fighting a stealthed rogue as a Hunter is more like
1) Lay down a Freezing Trap right under you and Flare
2) (80%+ of the time, this is the case) Watch as the rogue effortlessly disarms your trap and goes in for the stunlock. Not even the flare will stop him from doing so.
3) Try escaping with trinket, disengage, wing clip etc
4) Rogue sprints and uses OP 70% slow (Crippling Poison)
5) Continue trying to escape then get killed.
Syme Aug 3rd 2009 11:09AM
"We want to resolve what a hunter is supposed to do in melee (Raptor Strike? Disengage?)."
I used to have a lot of melee potential in battlegrounds (much to the chagrin of a number of rogues who must have assumed a Survival hunter was a BM with BW on cooldown), but then they nerfed dodge for hunters and changed Deterrence into something useless. The dodge nerf killed my mitigation; and Deterrence not only gives up all damage for mitigation, but now can't be used to proc Counterattack because you can't attack while it's up. I didn't try to get into melee in PvP, but I held my own when I had to.