We Have a Tabard: The green-eyed monster
by Amanda Dean 
Jul 31st 2009 at 2:00PM
There's something "Lord of the Flies"-esque about the way that Blizzard drops loot and then allows players to decide who gets it. DKP, Loot Council, Biggest Upgrade, Two Token, simple rolls. Every system is flawed. Someone is going to walk away unhappy. For GMs/RLs I give you this advice: be fair, be consistent, and brace yourselves. Odds are good, someone is going to be unhappy and you're going to have to deal with it.
But this column isn't for GMs/RLs. Jealousy, the green eyed monster is one of the worst adversaries in WoW. Guilds have fallen apart over loot decisions and overall loot practices. In most cases leadership tries to be fair- with an eye on progression. A good GM doesn't play favorites when it comes to loot. With good leadership, you can count on decisions that strengthen the team as a whole.
In my opinion loot whores are nearly as abominable as loot ninjas. Sure -- everyone wants to be their personal best, but WoW is not a single player game. When I hear a guildie bragging about their WoW-Heroes score, I usually inform them that it means they should be working on helping others get caught up.
In a raiding guild, the object of gearing up is to help push your team in progression. If you're not interested in the greater good of your guild, you may want to reconsider being in that guild or your desire to raid at all. Yes, it's fair to want and hope for those shiny purples, but odds are good that someone is going to be miss out. Take heart! Kel'Thuzad will be there again next week.
Individual guild members have a responsibility to help push their gear score/effectiveness. The tokens system allows players to be in command of their own upgrades. Having trouble getting Tier Shoulders? For 60 emblems of valor, they're yours. Properly gemming and enchanting your gear promptly helps to push up both your gear score your performance. My main is a Skinner/Leatherworker, but I carry gems and enchants with me so that I can shift on the fly when I get a needed upgrade. Be aware of what's available to you, and keep those goals in mind.
Play the gear that you have to its maximum potential. Someone who is undergeared and still keeping up is not only admirable, but proves themselves worthy of the best gear. I think we've all seen the Shaman geared to the teeth who can't heal his way out of a paper bag and the Warlock in Level 78 crafted blues who pulls 2.5k on Naxx 10. In most cases it's not necessarily the gear that you're wearing but what you do with it.
When there's a piece that you need or want, make it known, but don't be obnoxious about it. In my guild we do a "Wishlist" where folks who have run raids over and over can name a specific piece that they feel completes their character. They will be the first to be considered for it. And keep in mind, at the end of the raid, only one person will walk away with the Betrayer.
If you're continually being passed over, there may be an issue with your guild or your loot system. Talk to your GM, and they may be able to explain their motives and goals. If you earn your keep, you should be rewarded for your deeds.
Once you are geared as well as you can be for a particular raid, you are far from done with it. Now it's your job to help others along. This brings the team up to par and move on to the next challenge. "But I don't need anything out of Naxx 25." Yes you do: geared guildies. Unless your entire guild is fully geared for the next raid, you have a duty to get back in there.
Gear envy can rear its ugly head in any progression guild. Team spirit goes a long way. No matter how great your gear, you will not be soloing Ice Crown Citadel any time soon. It is in your best interest to keep the best interest of the team in mind.
WoW.com offers a plethora of information on guild leadership and guild membership. Be sure to check out Scott Andrew's Weekly Column Officer's Quarters and keep an eye on the community with Mike Schramm's Guildwatch.Filed under: Ranking, Guilds, Features, Raiding, (Guild Leadership) We Have a Tabard
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Boal Jul 31st 2009 2:11PM
Best article I have ever read on wow.com in my over 2 years reading this site.
Preston Jul 31st 2009 4:12PM
I wish each and every person who ever used an "I can haz" joke was firebombed into oblivion, including the author of this story who posted that braindead image. Internet memes are some of the dumbest trends on the planet.
impurezero Jul 31st 2009 4:38PM
This.
(Sorry...couldn't resist.)
Voldenmist Jul 31st 2009 6:28PM
/agree
Beli Jul 31st 2009 2:17PM
Overall a good post... It's important to stress the aspect of gearing up everyone equally, not just going for loot yourself. Two specific incidents come to mind from this article...
In one Ulduar-10 run, i was healing on my shaman, along with another resto shaman. Two things for us drop from the first boss - we both roll on the first, i win and take it. The second comes up for roll, he passes because he already has it, so i take that as well. Oops. Second boss drops some loot, and even though it's an up for me, i pass to him - the raid will get farther by gearing up evenly across the board, especially between two high (all but 1-2 raids in 6 months) attenders.
On the flip side, just earlier this week we were doing a Naxx 25 run to help gear up more people. Two Death Knights roll on upgrades through the entire run (2 1/3 quarters, finishing it tonight). One of them wins all but 1 roll - for a total of 12 upgrades for that individual. Clearly, the loser was rather upset in this case, and while we treat every drop as an open roll, we try to encourage people to pass if they've gotten stuff already - and most of the time they do. In this case, no... and the greedy Death Knight got a stern talking to after the raid by the officers who saw his greed as not within the character of the guild.
JKWood Jul 31st 2009 3:02PM
Sounds like a PUG I went on the other night. We were running Molten Core (I'm a 64 pally, so it's about right.) 80 hunter rolls on absolutely everything, even when she has no idea what it is yet (we were doing loot master.)
I rolled on exactly one piece... Shadowstrike, http://www.wowhead.com/?item=17074
Who gets it? The hunter who rolled on everything, and got half of it. The worst part of it was, she rolled before the piece was ever announced!
Gnosh Jul 31st 2009 3:20PM
The difference there is that you're talking about a level 60 raid. Which means that no one has a real NEED for the upgrades. But, everything can be rolled on for vendor cash.
A lot of people think the lowbies are entitled to the drops. But-
The epics are worth lots of money to vendors.
Hellfire greens will replace lots of molten core epics.
The 80s are racking up repair bills MUCH higher than the lowbies just being in there.
The lowbies, compared to the 80s, ARE NOT HELPING the raid. In fact, with their huge aggro radius and tendency to die, they're a detriment.
Frankly, you're lucky there are free rolls at all. I usually just don't even invite anyone lower than 75.
impurezero Jul 31st 2009 4:21PM
Gnosh,
Oh shut up. It's the attitude of people like you who have killed level 60 raids. Not everyone is playing the friggin' game to get their level 80 Best in Slot Epics. Some of us, actually enjoy going through the level 60 raids at the appropriate level trying to put together a decent T2 set for...get this...fun!
Sure...nobody NEEDS level 60 epics. Who ****ing cares? There are people who would actually USE and ENJOY the ****ing things instead having a bunch of BoP vendor trash. I'm personally going to keep my old world gear to use in old school raids, even when I return to them at level 80.
If the level 80 hunter doesn't get an item from MC, that just means that he has a couple less gold in his pocket (when he probably has thousands already and could just go do a daily instead. If gold is your only motivation...why the hell are you in MC?). On the other hand, If the level 60 who actually wants to wear the friggin' item doesn't get it...well, that's many more weeks of trying to run level 60 raids, which is always difficult to find people for.
Why is it so difficult to find people for them? Because of idiots like you who ruin it for the 60s.
impurezero Jul 31st 2009 4:25PM
By the way...according to wowhead, the vendor trash rate for that item is about 8 gold. If you still want to be a selfish prick about such a tiny amount of gold, at least offer the 60 a chance to "buy" the item from the master looter by giving you the 8 gold you obviously need so badly at level 80.
The Claw Jul 31st 2009 5:04PM
To be fair, "Shardstrike" was infamously bad even when MC was endgame.
impurezero Jul 31st 2009 5:13PM
Hey, I'll give you that one. :D
Mainly, I'm just all aggro about the topic in general because I've had my own run-ins with this. I had an MC run where I was specifically looking for gear. Several people in the raid requested that the RL pursue a need before greed style loot distribution, but he refused to because, and I quote, "Nobody cares about MC Epics." Essentially, "You play the game differently than I do, so you're stupid. FU."
So for me, it was a wasted raid lockout and another week of waiting for the drops I'm looking for.
Cabbageloins Jul 31st 2009 2:18PM
http://www.wowwiki.com/Suicide_Kings
My old guild utilizes this, and it virtually eliminated loot jealousy. Good for getting your lower characters geared, while giving geared characters priority on items of their choice. If rolls or DKP aren't working for you, try this.
taristo Jul 31st 2009 2:29PM
YES!!! SKG is amazing my guild has been using it for months and NO, read again NO loot drama at all.
paul Jul 31st 2009 2:28PM
Nothing like being a Hunter and every time the betrayer drops, it always goes to a melee class :)
Bawb Jul 31st 2009 2:39PM
This has been done to death.
It benefits melee more than it benefits you.
Cry moar.
Gnosh Jul 31st 2009 3:28PM
Yeah, like you wouldn't be pissed if a warrior or rogue rolled against you for a ranged upgrade.
Barinthos Jul 31st 2009 3:29PM
Not everything is a huntard weapon... Especially Betrayer when a melee class can use it.
Scott Clark Jul 31st 2009 3:02PM
"They're" and "you're". Even on the internet, a well-edited article will convey greater authority than a hastily posted one that simply passes MS Word's spell-check.
Wintersdark Jul 31st 2009 2:41PM
Everyone has their own preferred loot systems. There are pros and cons to each - Suicide Kings, for example, is wonderful and fair but encourages passing over smaller upgrades (and perhaps sharding them) because you really want something in particular... which leads to slower guild progression. Still, it's not a bad system, just an example.
Point based systems have the *opportunity* to be the most fair overall in terms of time spent/items got, but they need to be well designed to avoid common pitfalls: Inflation, point hording, collusion(a problem with most systems), etc.
My guild uses a dkp-esque system wherein players are rewarded in points at the end of a raid depending on bosses downed and serious attempts at progression bosses(not BS oops I pulled wipes). Each new teir that comes out resets everyone's points to a basic starting amount, and non-progression tiers are all just /rolled. Thus, currently we /roll in everything other than ulduar. When 3.2 comes out, we'll /roll all of Ulduar too; reset points and start on the new instance. People are rewarded for the effort they put into guild progression; and lower-end gear is readily attainable by everyone, for their alts or what have you (we'll pass on alts if people's mains should need something from, say, Naxx, god forbid). Point hording then is a non-issue. Newcomers to the guild don't start far behind, so they're rewarded for their contributions too - typically, they won't get anything in their first run, but they will after that. People don't horde points, because they are reset every tier.
The single most important rule for a guild looting system, though, more than ANYTHING ELSE: Be consistent. Whatever you do, do it every time, just like that. People may be unhappy(there will ALWAYS be jealousy, after all), but they can't point to favouritism or unfairness.
TLDR: Consistency in your loot system is the most important part, regardless of the system you use.
Ahoni Jul 31st 2009 2:42PM
Excellent article. Though most people won't admit to being one, there are more loot whores out there than people suspect. They are not always obvious like the DK Beli mentioned.
Wow-heroes scores (or Armory Lite or imba.hu) are a great way to judge a persons progression. Some of those sites allow you to audit the entire guild at once.
One nit to pick ... "Warlock in Level 78 crafted blues who pulls 2.5k on Naxx 10."
Don't you have to be 80 to enter Naxx?