Out with the old
by Mike Schramm 
Aug 5th 2009 at 1:00PM
In response to a what I'd call a troll on the forums, Zarhym gives some thoughtful insight to a problem that's been raising its head more and more often as the game gets older and older: items and achievements that once required lots of time and/or skill to obtain are becoming easier than ever to get. Usually, when this topic comes up, we're talking about epics, but that's not always the case. Here, the item in question is the Warlock mount. It used to require a long quest chain to obtain, but after a series of decisions on Blizzard's part, you can now train it right away from the trainer as soon as you hit the required level.Zarhym says that it's just part of the game's evolution -- originally, the dreadsteed quests were part of the endgame, and just like the Hunter Rhok'delar quests, were designed to show that players had reached the pinnacle of the class. But nowadays, level 60 isn't what it used to be, and the best way to do those quests is to have a higher level character tag along with you. That's not how Blizzard designed it (and it definitely doesn't fit within the "lore" of the quest), so they ditched it.
That questline is still in, just not required, but some questlines and rewards are obviously removed from the game completely -- their achievement no longer represents an equivalent challenge, so Blizzard decides to take them out. And that really seems the best way to do it -- though it's always a shame when today's players can't experience the quests the same way veteran players did back in the day, the alternative would be to have them play through content that makes no sense, and no one wants that. As Zarhym says, there will always be new challenges to take on.
Filed under: Hunter, Warlock, Patches, Items, Analysis / Opinion, Blizzard
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
wickdaman Aug 5th 2009 1:06PM
It's a real shame that Blizzard have dumbed the game down a lot more than what it was: removing the need to do Swift Flight Form quest chain or removing the summoning of mounts...it's a lot easier than what it was. I think Blizzard are looking at keeping people on the game long term by introducing a more casual gamer approach.
I do wonder if there will be any challenges at all.
Jon Do Aug 5th 2009 1:15PM
Heh.
I’d suggest that link your hard-mode drakes before you get voted into oblivion.
usagizero Aug 5th 2009 1:55PM
"I do wonder if there will be any challenges at all."
Whenever i see people complaining about it being too easy, i just wonder why they don't go play Final Fantasy 11, you know, the one with the boss it took people days (i believe it was several days, but know for sure it was longer than most people are awake) to down. WoW is and always was a casual friendly game, and it's better for it.
Mr. Tastix Aug 5th 2009 3:48PM
Is and was always a casual friendly game? I have no problem with it being casual friendly now, but can you prove it's always been casual friendly? You can talk the talk but can you walk the walk?
Jon Do Aug 5th 2009 4:59PM
@Mr Tastix
I started at about 1.10 or so. The game was a *lot* more of a grind then, mainly because it was hard to get a fast mount, quests ran you all over zones (and at high levels, all over the world and into instances). Gold was a lot harder to come by, and there were no dailies. Gear was tougher to come by.
To make a long story short, WoW is a *lot* more casual friendly now.
But it isn't much *harder*, it's just a lot less of a grind.
If you were looking for a *hard* game, WoW is not it. WoW was never hard. WoW was my wife's very first 'video game', and she leveled a hunter in vanilla WoW.
Arashikou Aug 5th 2009 8:39PM
Yes, WoW has always been casual-friendly. The tricky part of this is remembering that the composition of the greater MMO playerbase and the definiition of "casual" have really changed over time, mostly BECAUSE of WoW's friendliness to less-hardcore players. When WoW launched, it had several features that were uncommon or new for an MMO and were all aimed at making the game easier and more user-friendly. The first ten off the top of my head:
1) Questgivers who are clearly marked when they have a quest to offer.
2) Quest return points that are clearly marked and marked differently when the quest is complete.
3) Questing as the primary way of earning experience.
4) Quests that try to provide rewards appropriate for players of different classes.
5) Having discrete "hubs" of questgivers that the player is shepherded between when they reach the appropriate level to move on. ("Pearls on a string," as they say.)
6) Grouping with others not being mandatory to reach the max level.
7) Instanced dungeons.
8) Having enough info available in-game that one could reach max level without using spoiler sites.
9) A unified, rapid transit system.
10) Healing classes that can specialize to do damage.
Those all sound like "duh" stuff now, but there was a time when those were considered a revolutionary dumbing-down of the MMO genre.
Andrew Martin Aug 5th 2009 1:08PM
It seems like they've pretty much ditched the idea of class speciffic stuff. It would have been cool if they'd put in new class speciffic mount stuff, and epic quests like Benediction,Quel Serrar and Rhok'Delar etc.
Seems to me for mounts in particualar it wouldn't be that big of a deal to add a new quest at whatever the level cap is , if you want to get a class mount. If you just want the regular mount you could still get that like everyone else.
Mr Greenfield Aug 5th 2009 1:23PM
I completely agree.
Having class-specific quests and rewards was an awesome thing, and something that could be continued nowadays. Too bad Blizzard does not want it so, but well... I guess this is just up for personal preference.
It may be fun to tune up those quests to lvl80, along with the specific fights, and add some achievement. I'm sure people would do it even if they purchased their mount from the trainer on 60 (will be 40... soon surely coming to be 20... etcetc.) Also, famous epic items that required a quest chain, such as Quel'serrar and the hunter bow could be upgraded to 80, along with the kills they needed. (We need more decent looking gear, not made up of vyrkul or undead body parts for a change, anyway. ;) )
Arktic Aug 5th 2009 2:11PM
"it would have been cool if they'd put in new class speciffic mount stuff"
When I get 100 Champion seals, I'm gonna purchase my new Paladin Only Argent Charger. I'm pretty sure that qualifies as a new class specific mount stuff.
tonedeff Aug 5th 2009 8:48PM
I've been playing wow since vanilla wow. I love where wow is at atm.
BUT the only thing I miss/would love to see/think they should bring back is class specific quest. Just so can finally feel a little bit unique in my class!
Zanathos Aug 5th 2009 11:38PM
There's a blue quest about that, to the effect that while they really enjoyed doing class specific stuff, it's harder to justify the development time since classic specific content (obviously) is only seem by a small number of the playerbase.
Ursolan Aug 5th 2009 1:10PM
no.
Ahoni Aug 5th 2009 1:13PM
I completed the Dreadstead quest for my warlock at 60, before BC. The final part, in DM was an epically fun fight. I'm glad I got a chance to do it at 60. During BC, my then 70 warlock ran close to a dozen people thru DM to get their mount. It was still interesting, but my warlock could basically solo the entire thing. It really didn't require any talent or a group. Just a warlock with the mats. At 80, it would be a joke.
It is nearly impossible to get a group together for most lower level instances (yes, 60 is lower level). Completing the quest in DM would today usually just involve someone running you thru the instance which would take what, 20 minutes? It makes the quest and its epic feel completely irrelevant. It is not dumbing down the content. We have simply left this content behind. It only makes sense to let it be trainable.
Sellio Aug 5th 2009 1:28PM
I agree, and feel like another point should be made.
Just because we're leaving behind some of this epic content, doesn't mean that there is none left in the game. Instead of running DM to get the warlock his mount, today we have complete the "hard mode" of heroic CoS to get the drake mount at the end, or down 3D Sarth for the mount there, etc.
Everytime we leave behind yesterday's epic content, its because we've opened up something new explore and strive for.
usagizero Aug 5th 2009 2:03PM
I hit 60 on my lock a month or so before BC was going to come out, and i tried every time i played to get a group together to do the quest. Didn't happen. I ended up at the stage where i had to go to DM and just couldn't complete it, had all the items and such, just not a guild or people wanting to do it. What i did do was just cave and spend the money to get the regular mount training. These kinds of quests are okay when you can actually do them, or find groups for them, but when it's a hassle it's not epic or whatever, it's annoying.
Fierna Aug 5th 2009 1:15PM
Oh people. Because we did something a certain way 3 or 4 years ago does not mean we should expect people to be doing it in the same way now.
And anyone who had to help their warlock friends by crawling through Dire Maul to get that thing will be relieved that it's n o longer necessary
j Aug 5th 2009 1:23PM
WTB new endgame warlock flying mount with new epic endgame questchain to obtain it!
usagizero Aug 5th 2009 2:03PM
I don't really care one way or the other if it's a quest or hard or easy to get, but i wish flying mounts (regular or fast or both) had a class look that locks and pallys had in riding mounts.
JB Aug 5th 2009 1:25PM
Well, I completed the druid epic flight form quest at 71. I had a bunch of 70-74 helping me - we were a group of 4 actually. I know I could buy the spell, but it was a lot of fun doing it the "old" way. I don't remember how many times we wiped in heroic Setthek Halls - but we had the dead run off pat at the end - LOL. One of my buddies was levelling a druid alt and as result of this experience, also did it the "old" way. I think it depends on the person. A friend of mine did the Lock quest at 60 as well. And my lock alt will do the same.
Mugutu Aug 5th 2009 6:53PM
Same here. Just last week I finished the Paladin mount questline, as I wanted to be sure I didn't miss it before 3.2. Truly fun quests, if you can get groups for them.