Two Bosses Enter: Prince Taldaram vs. Chrono-Lord Epoch
by Lisa Poisso 
Aug 6th 2009 at 6:00PM
It's time for the next fight in the second bracket of our five-man Wrath season of Two Bosses Enter, One Boss Leaves. Gather 'round the Thunderdome for a matchup that pits Prince against Lord, as Prince Taldaram (Ahn'kahet: The Old Kingdom) comes face to face with Chrono-Lord Epoch (The Culling of Stratholme). Prince Taldaram claims he'll drink no blood before its time – but will Chrono-Lord Epoch stop or warp the time he needs?
The ground rules:
- Assume that the opponents and their minions share similar levels, health pools and comparative overall damage output.
- This deathmatch takes place in neutral territory, which shall not hinder either boss from using his usual encounter abilities.
- All the usual minions will be available to each boss.
- Don't get caught up in gameplay mechanics and what actual players might do in each encounter.
- Don't neglect style, story and scale.
Prince Taldaram (Ahn'kahet: The Old Kingdom)I will drink no blood before its time.
The last time we saw Prince Taldaram in the Two Bosses Thunderdome, he was assiduously working his way to a victory over the Maiden of Grief.
Prince Taldaram is a Darkfallen, a group of Undead Elven renegades from Quel'Thalas who are sworn to serve the Lich King. Like his fellow Blood Princes, Taldaram hungers for blood and flesh even in death.
In Ahn'Kahet, he is protected by a force shield that must be deactivated before one can engage his bloody attentions. Since our deathmatch here takes place in neutral territory, the force shield will not be a factor before or during the duel.
Read this overview of Prince Taldaram's battle tactics, and review comments from players who've defeated him.
Chrono-Lord Epoch (The Culling of Stratholme)
Tick tock, tick tock... Not quick enough! Let's get this over with.
In his first-round match, Chrono-Lord Epoch proved he had no time for Volkhan. Chrono-Lord Epoch, the third boss in The Culling of Stratholme, is sent by the leader of the Infinite Dragonflight to unravel time by altering key events -- in this case, events in Old Stratholme. He disrupts enemies in battle by slowing and stopping time.
Read more about fighting Chrono-Lord Epoch, and review comments from players who've fought him.
Curse of ExertionThe deathmatch
Remember: no game-mechanic nitpicking. Set aside differences in opponents' health pools, game level and actual damage output. Vote for the spirit of the battle as set forth above, considering each opponent's abilities plus the style, scale and story he or she brings to the table.
Can you come up with a convincing scenario in the comments that will sway other readers to vote for your victor of choice?
| Tie | |
|---|---|
| Prince Taldaram | |
| Chrono-Lord Epoch |
Cast your vote in this match of Round Two of the five-man Wrath of the Lich King season to help us determine who rocks Wrath's five-man world.Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Features, Bosses, Two Bosses Enter
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Arktic Aug 6th 2009 6:08PM
I know you have a schedule you are following, but does the Black Knight, Eadric the Pure, or Argent Confessor Paletress get to jump in the ring at any point and put the smack down on another dungeon baddie?
Eamara Aug 6th 2009 6:16PM
The fight begins, and the two rush at each other to begin the brawl. Taldaram summons his fire orb while Epoch starts his time warp: Epoch teleports around, slicing Taldaram up while taking damage from the fire orb. At the end of this Taldaram would probably be worse off, and vanishes: but not before Epoch gets off a Wounding Strike. Taldaram would stun Epoch and start sucking his blood: the Wounding Strike would lower the healing received from the first couple of seconds, but there's still 17-18 seconds of healing to go. Epoch can do absolutely nothing to break out of this: he has no adds to save him, and no AoE abilities or methods to break the stun. Taldaram heals up for a significant amount, and round two begins.
Round two carries on much the same as Round one did: Taldaram would take more damage, but as soon as he vanishes and stuns Epoch he'll just heal up a lot of the damage. Epoch is taking heavy damage from the blood sucking and fire orb, and won't be able to keep up with it even with all his time stopping/slowing abilities. Taldaram would win.
IvanZephyr Aug 6th 2009 6:22PM
I think you're giving Taldaram too much of a benefit with his healing move. If you consider the fact that Epoch would have his wounding strike up the entire time, Embrace of the Vampyr would only do a total of 18750 (I achieved this by multiplying 2500 shadow damage x 10, then taking 25% of that and subtracting it from 25000). Flame Orb barely does any damage if you know how and where to move.
IvanZephyr Aug 6th 2009 6:17PM
I would have to give this one to Chrono-Lord Epoch.
First of all, both bosses have an ability that renders their opponent immobile/frozen for a short time, however Prince Taldaram's also siphons life from the opponent to heal him, while Epoch's is just a straight 2 second stun.
However, Epoch's Wounding Strike would greatly reduce any and all of Taldaram's healing capabilities, not to mention the Time Warp and CoE. Taldaram's whole niche as a boss consists of him healing himself while incapacitating one member of your party, and then trying to damage you all with the flame sphere.
Since we can assume Epoch isn't a complete moron, he could move away from the Flame Sphere and take minimal damage. Taldaram doesn't really spam Embrace of the Vampyr, so although Epoch will take a good amount of damage by the time the fight ends, Epoch will have done more damage.
It comes down to this: With Epoch's debuffs (aside from the Time Stop stun) against Taldaram's debuffs (Including Embrace of the Vampyr), Epoch simply does more damage. Factoring in Epoch's Wounding Strike, which also applies a small dot, along with his decent melee damage, and then factoring in the fact that Taldaram really isn't a melee pro (With his damage and health/defenses), Epoch wins this one.
RogueJedi86 Aug 6th 2009 6:24PM
I'm gonna try a copout: Chrono-Lord Epoch goes back in time to before Taldaram was born and kills his parents, meaning Taldaram can't fight, and thus loses. Or better yet, he prevents Taldaram from ever becoming undead, thus denying him all his vampire healing abilities. Either way, Epoch wins.
Okay, that sounds weak. But if everyone last week can use Lore reasons for why Mal'Ganis would win, I'll use lore reasons(Epoch's a time traveler) to ensure victory for Chrono-Lord Epoch.
Ancro Aug 6th 2009 9:28PM
Ah, but you forget the circumstances by which Epoch travels back in time: rather than going back and doing the obvious thing (slaying Arthas as a child, or if you read the books, when he was alone in the snow when Invincible dies), he has the rather stupid idea to travel back to when Arthas was at his pinnacle of power as a Paladin. I think this has to do with the way that time travel works in the Warcraft lore: you can travel back to important dates and times to the world as a whole due to buildups of what can only be described as Loreons (pronounced similarly to protons). Assuming that Taldaram was a rather powerful High Elf Mage at the time that he made the decision that led to him becoming a member of the Scourge (or even that this event would produce the required amount of loreons), the abilities of Taldaram might be just Arcane modified versions of his current abilities. If not, then the Chrono-Lord is in trouble, as his time control abilities are similar in nature to what the Darkfallen use already (see Prince Keleseth's address to the Forsaken of Howling Fjord), and are likely to be countered by the pure might of the Scourge.
The result: A draw, due to quantum entanglement of loreons in the local atmosphere producing a lore collapse event in which lore comparisons, and indeed, this whole popularity contest is irrelevant to what Metzen would actually say would happen. :P
Rishio Aug 7th 2009 12:20PM
I disagree. The reason they didn't go back and kill arthas as a child is because that would prevent anything and everthing he would have done good they were only preventing him from becoming the lich king.
Precision Aug 6th 2009 6:32PM
Time Warp- Time slow down, reducing attack, casting, and movement speed by 70% for 6 seconds. 5 sec cooldown.
Yah that pretty much will own anyone. Lasts 6 seconds with a 5 second cooldown? Time Warp spam anyone?
Endario Aug 7th 2009 8:30AM
Let's do the Time Warp agaaain!
Oznak Aug 6th 2009 6:41PM
The problem with this fight in general is that Embrace of the Vampyr depends on a multi-person offense or serious dottage, which Epoch does not have. Like Eamara said, lacking any sort of adds or outside help, he gets to sit there for twenty seconds while Taldaram does his life drain thing. Epoch beats on Taldaram for a while, maybe pops the Time Warp to escape the Flame Spheres, and then gets the life sucked out of him. Rinse, repeat until dead.
Oznak Aug 6th 2009 6:43PM
Or rather, BREAKING Embrace depends on ...
Mastor Aug 9th 2009 8:16AM
Sucking life from Epoch? I doubt that.
Time manipulation says it all. easy win for Epoch
He disrupts enemies in battle by slowing and stopping time.
Time manipulation also remover all CD on Epoch, think about that. but not sure about hes limits of time using.
Ed Aug 6th 2009 7:06PM
I don't know why you all are completely discounting taldaram's healing ability based on one 25% debuff. EotV heals for a total of 30,000 health over the 20 second duration.
So let's Taldaram say is hit with wounding strike. He immediately pop's vanish(2.5 s) and lays into Epoch with EotV the second it wears off. With 1500 health regenerated every second the 3.5 seconds remaining on the debuff only shaves 1125 off the final number ((1500%4x3x3)+1500x17=28,875) Additionally bloodthirst heals 2.25% instead of 3%. Hardly a game breaker for Taldaram.
It will be a long(if that term even applies here time is such a fickle thing,) drawn out fight, but epoch is fucked three ways past Sunday.
RetPallyJil Aug 6th 2009 7:39PM
I can only go by personal experience on this one: The Prince killed me waaayyy more times than the Chrono-Lord did.
Angus Aug 6th 2009 7:45PM
Chrono-Lord squeaks this one by.
They square off.
Chrono Lord makes a long speech about how the Prince will do a great evil.
The prince looks at him funny and attacks.
Taldaram will vanish and go to suck Epoch dry.
Epoch STOPS FREAKING TIME.
Taldaram is now at a major loss as his target has smacked him a ton in an instant and is no longer lunch. He summons an orb and vanishes. Epoch slows down time, moves away from the pain of the orbs and waits. Taldaram goes for the throat and again is stuck in time after some snacking.
Eventually Epoch pulls ahead simply because he can stop Taldaram from outlasting him.
When he's finished he goes back and tells the Nozdormu he killed Arthas.
Nozdormu smacks him upside the head.
Clydtsdk-Rivendare Aug 6th 2009 8:26PM
Five words to stop you:
Can't do that while stunned.
In all seriousness, it depends. If this were ingame, Taldaram would have a massive edge what with the life drain. However, ___in theory__ CLE is able to travel in time, thus if he makes a mistake in combat, he could correct it.
Lemme give a short roundup.
CLE and PT engage in combat. CLE smacks around PT pretty good for a while, when PT vanishes and starts sucking blood. CLE is stunned for twenty seconds while PT does major damage and healing. CLE continues smacking PT around, and PT vanish/heals again. CLE tries a time stop, but since PT is invisible it's pointless. CLE realizes he can't stop PT's onslaught, so he reverses time to the beginning of the fight and flees. PT wins by technicality.
Remember that, if the Infinite/Bronze (they do the same stuff) Dragonflight was capable of complete time control, we'd already be dead via their massive army. And besides that, Ley-Guardian Eregos would be the easiest boss in the game because of the bronze drake. Only Nozdormu could possibly become close to complete time control (and travel, unless Chromie is far more powerful than we think--she IS in multiple places we don't know about yet along with Wyrmrest and Andorhal), and therefore no other Bronze/Infinite dragon could be capable of stopping or slowing time permanently. Hence the "Epoch stops time and beats on [opponent] until they're dead" logic is like saying Rogues can stunlock anything 100-0. Perhaps a handful of masterful (IE, NPC) Rogues could do something like that--but that Rogue would have skill/power on or above the level of a Dragon Aspect. Epoch is a powerful lieutenant, but there's no way he could "stunlock" Taldaram completely.
samsik Aug 6th 2009 9:01PM
it seems to me that you guys are getting to caught up in game mechanics so ill give you this :
All instance bosses are immune to crowd control.
Seriously, what will Taldaram do so Epoch will just sit there and bite his nails? This way you could say that Taldaram is unbeatable 1 on 1, he would just spam his suck and thats all, Archimonde is down...
lets just say vampire guy is not so IMBA, his stun is obviously some sort of mind trick and Epoch can get out of it. This way the fight goes to Chrono-lord, coz hes stronger, tougher and pretty much equally fast and smart plus he can slow time and stuff
Clydtsdk-Rivendare Aug 6th 2009 10:06PM
TBH, Taldaram's other stuff doesn't seem to hit very hard--without Embrace I would think he'd be soloable. The stun is his main trick, much like Epoch's Time Stop, Jedoga's sacrifices, Amanitar's Mini, Anub'arak burrowing, and whatnot. It's balanced around having 3-4 other players to free the stunned party member--and Epoch comes alone. True, it would probably be nerfed for this fight because of that, but it's still gonna hurt unless the Flame Spheres were to be buffed massively...
Kyle Aug 7th 2009 12:16AM
having a healing ability vs not having a healing ability is a simple fight. especially since we are to "Assume that the opponents and their minions share similar levels, health pools and comparative overall damage output." sure this one might take a while, but the prince has got the edge with bloodthirst and embrace.
Barovia Aug 7th 2009 12:55AM
Just to add to those that have already mentioned about the *Limited* ability of the Chrono-Lord-Epoch, his ability to manipulate time is very restricted, he can only use it in a very short burst (stopping time briefly - this is just an extreme version of his slow time). I wouldn't be surprised if it took an enormous effort (from either his minions or superiors)to send him to that particular point in time (as it was a monumental turning point it probably stood out so was easier to locate). Regardless, this is how I see the fight going...
Chrono Lord Epoch and Prince Taladaram square off. Taladaram opens up with his flame ball, but the epoch lord flips his time stop and time warp and moves in to wail on the vampire prince. Taladaram takes a few hits before pulling out the whole vampire vanish and suck trick. Epoch recovers eventually but is hurting bad and the Prince is fully healed. The two go head to head, Taladaram using his bloodthirst and Epoch using his Wounding Strike. Taladaram uses his flame sphere again, but Epoch time stops and time warps around it, getting a few more blows in on Taladaram. The prince vanishes and embraces the already weakened Chrono Lord, and although not healing as much as before due to the wounding effect still is way out in front, the result ..... a foregone conclusion. A win to the darkfallen Prince. The crowd cheers wildly.