Drama Mamas: It's not you - it's them
Dodge the drama and become that player everyone wants in their group with the Drama Mamas. Lisa Poisso and Robin Torres are real-life mamas and experienced WoW players -- and just as we don't want our precious babies to be the ones kicking and wailing on the floor of checkout lane next to the candy, neither do we want you to become known as That Guy on your server. We're taking your questions at DramaMamas (at) WoW (dot) com.You can't fix other people. "Good Intentions" discovered that hard truth last week, after writing in for help coping with the fallout of a BoP misloot that rendered him a social pariah. When it's other people's issues, attitudes and behavior that are causing the problem, sometimes the only alternatives are to grit your teeth and endure or to cut the line and move to another fishing hole.
This week, we hear from a newly 80 player who can't seem to gear up fast enough for everyone around him. We also revisit the unfortunate scarcity of a particular WoW netiquette basic that continues to set one incensed player's teeth on edge. On to the drama!
Everyone's a criticDear Drama Mamas: I recently hit 80 on my main toon. I joined a group for a heroic about a week after dinging, after a guildie invited me. When I arrived in the instance, he immediately began whispering me about my low-level gear in a very derogatory tone. I am generally a solo player by default, since I am on later at night after the kids are asleep, so I haven't had a lot of experience in Wrath dungeons. I feel I did my job (DPS) okay, considering, but when we wiped repeatedly on an easy boss, the healer blamed me for the wipe.
I am trying slowly to gear up as best I can, but now I am anxious about joining groups. My question is: how do you react to being put down because of your gear while still being polite (even if others aren't)? I'll be trying to gear myself out solo as best I can, in the meantime. -- Gearless and Group-Shy
Drama Mama Lisa: Gearless, you've nailed the heart of the matter: it's not you – it's them. Admittedly, it's easy for players to become sucked into an elitist endgame mentality that causes them to feel somehow justified for berating and lording it over newer players. The only thing these players demonstrate when they diss rookies for not having the very gear that they're so obviously working toward is their own social ineptitude. Establishing their superiority (or shifting the blame for their own mistakes) by putting you down, Gearless, makes these rude little twits feel important.
You know you need better gear, and you're working on curing your shortcomings there. Check. Unfortunately, you can't cure other people's bad manners. What you can do is to appeal to their vanity -- and maybe even win them over to your side. Compliment them on their gear and ask a question that allows them to flex: "Wow, you can really put out the burst damage. I see both of your trinkets are raiding rewards. Was it hard to get them?" After they strut forth with a reply, come back with a comment that lets them know that while you may be new, you're still savvy: "Yeah, I've been reading the latest threads on Elitist Jerks, and I'm working on getting my StatX to ### -- time to run more InstanceY to get my ItemZ!"
In the meantime, Gearless, be gentle with their boorish noobitude. You may be a newbie at World of Warcraft, but socially inept players are noobs at life.
Drama Mama Robin: Hey Gearless, I consulted The Spousal Unit (who is an interminable loot snob and leader of a raiding guild) about how best to gear up for heroics. It turns out there are a few ways you can acquire gear so that you can pass muster with rude groupies.
- Reputation Garnering reputation with the various Northrend factions is a great way to get heroic-ready gear.
- Crafting The various crafting professions have high-end solutions for your heroic needs.
- Quests Keep questing! Many of the rewards will upgrade your solo gear. The instance quests give the best rewards, but those can be done on non-heroic.
- Non-heroics Doing the regular versions of instances not only help you gear up for heroics, they help you practice your general grouping skills and get you familiar with boss mechanics.
- Enchant and gem Even if you plan to replace the gear you have with items you get in the heroics, you should definitely put gems in and enchant the gear you have before you join a group. Empty gem slots and a lack of enchants make gear snobs very catty.
Ninja invites are a no-noDear Drama Mamas, could you please inform the clods that inviting to groups without asking first is not only rude, it's disruptive? I can't go into Outland or Westfall on my alts without being hit by group invites. Isn't it bad enough that they are spamming general chat with their begging? You're supposed to be helping people with etiquette. Help them! Signed, Incensed About Invites
Drama Mama Robin: Chill, Winston! Yeah, it sucks, but there's not much we can do here. Blizzard recommends on their loading screens to ask before inviting, and anyone with common sense and basic manners know that a brief tell before a group invite is the right thing to do. Obviously, we are not going to be able to reach all of the invite spammers; this behavior is going to continue.
I also hate to tell you this, but just like gold-selling spam, they do it because it works. /sigh
Pro tip: If you group (but not raid) with a friend of any level who is in another zone, you can still get all of the experience and loot without any group penalties and don't have to worry about random invites. But then you won't be able to do that lovely impromptu grouping that happens when you show up at a hard-ish quest boss along with other questers. Good luck!
Drama Mama Lisa: There is a situation where it can be acceptable to shoot out a group invitation with no preamble: when you're questing in the same area as another player for obviously the same purpose. If the mobs aren't particularly dense and you feel relatively safe, it's nice to send a whisper first ("Hey man, you here for the birds, too? Wanna group?"), especially if you're not certain the other player is on the same stage of the quest as you.
But sometimes, it makes more sense to slam that invite out there quickly. If you've just starting hacking on the quest boss and another player rolls up, get him into the group immediately so he can share in the kill; it's easier and safer for you and helps out the other guy, too. (If the other player belongs to the other faction, you can always use emotes to coordinate a team effort.)
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, WoW Social Conventions, Virtual selves, Features, Drama Mamas






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 6)
Evi Aug 7th 2009 1:07PM
"In the meantime, Gearless, be gentle with their boorish noobitude. You may be a newbie at World of Warcraft, but socially inept players are noobs at life."
Oh, so very true. Great advice as usual, Drama Mamas. I've really enjoyed reading this new column.
talkingmike Aug 7th 2009 2:10PM
While there are plenty of "L2PlayNoob!" types, there are also plenty of uninformed players that refuse to accept criticism.
For example, I have had people get pissy when told sound things like "Gemming for Crit is not the best stat as a resto shaman, focus more on Spell Power." Don't be so defensive; I'm telling what I have learned from talking to others and independent research. I'm not insulting you based on your choice of gems and stats, simply offering a suggestion. (Honestly, I don't give out un-solicited suggestions anymore due to snappy retorts like this. I probably should not have even offered them from the start anyway.)
Or even worse, they claim to want to get better yet still hang on to poor specs and gear choices. Sure, you may want to play combat daggers because of the lore (lol), or you may want to maximize your stamina for PVP purposes, but those are not going to be effective and less-than-optimal if you are just starting out in heroics and raids.
Bob Dewane Aug 7th 2009 2:18PM
I think one of the worst points about the piece, if I read it correctly, is that the "friend" who invited Gearless along for the run IS THE ONE WHO FIRST LAID INTO HIM!!!! And a guildie to boot! That is just low-class.
That being said, hang in there Gearless and remember, just one run can change your luck like that. My friend dinged 80 the other day and I told him we should get him into Heroics to start gearing up. He is a dual spec'd priest (lvld shadow, now specd for heals) and he wanted to do one he could heal. I'm the tank so I said lets do HVH. It was the daily so finding 3 DPS took all of 2 seconds. I gave everyone in the group the heads up that my buddy was trying to get back in the healing business (he only went shadow at like lvl 50 or so) and they were cool with it. Well he got healer neckpiece from void boss, epic bracers AND blue pants off last boss plus I gave him the Frozen Orb i won so he could craft his epic gloves. In one 20 minute run he replaced 4 pieces of gear, with 2 epic upgrades! And the best part was we had no wipes and his confidence is sky high as he goes forward. One more capable healer in the mix only helps us all. I'm sorry your guild crapped on you like that but remember it IS possible to find good PUGs that want to help. Good luck gearing up, buddy!
Robert M Aug 7th 2009 2:37PM
@talkingmike,
While your assessment in often true, this is, obviously, not the case. For a solo player to get invited to a group and from a guildie no less who should have some idea the player just dinged 80, and then solicited advice from a blog in the community, I find it very difficult to believe the person cannot take criticism.
And to the healer crying to the DPS for the wipes, you are a giant TOOL. There is only one 5 man boss in all of Wrath that can be absolutely punishing to a group with one subpar DPS and that is Zuramat, and even he can be downed with intelligent swith usage. Everything else is manageable with a good tank and healer.
I tank and heal with a pally and druid, respectively. When a tank or healer start pointing fingers at the DPS, it is almost always because they need the extra oomph from the DPS to get past their shortcoming.
I ran Hhol last night with a 900 dps DK. The healer and I whispered back and forth about the numbers and after the run, I then talked to the DK about where to find decent upgrades to the holes in her (a girl toon anyway) gear. I never berated her and while talking, she apologized for bringing down the pug. I said it wasn’t a huge deal, we had a good group, but to try and grab the easy upgrades first and the dps would start climbing. There was no fight or noob talk, and that player, I hope, will walk away better because of it. Berating anyone when you could offer sound advice is the most asinine thing you could do in an online game.
zappo Aug 7th 2009 3:26PM
"There is only one 5 man boss in all of Wrath that can be absolutely punishing to a group with one subpar DPS and that is Zuramat, and even he can be downed with intelligent swith usage."
Oh, I very much disagree. I know because I've been there with dps so bad it defies explanation. One example in particular was a level 80 rogue in heroics with all rare or better gear pushing out 600 dps. Others in the group were not great, but not terrible - yet this guy basically lead to an insane amount of work to get anything down. Ever run an UP gauntlet and got to the end then had to fight it out for 12+ minutes? I have. I'm nearly obsessed with efficiency, but my healing has a limit. I can't heal forever, and when the dps is truly low and things don't go down we'll wipe... eventually.
But there is an easy way to see if your dps is too low. Go use a target dummy and check the results on recount. No need to listen to arbitrary people about having "dps that's too low". Often times these people got carried themselves and don't really know how to work at anything.
Gothia Aug 8th 2009 7:10AM
Better advice for gearless would have been to actually group up in instances while you were questing. I understand that you play late at night, but getting people for instances is as easy as joining Lfg. Even if you can only get 1 or 2 people you can go into "who" and send tells to people of level to join your group. Don't always dps, and yes you are expected to put out atleast 1K dps in a heroic, try tanking or healing too. I am not being elitist, but this is a problem that I see from many people is that they do not know their role in an instance. You can always practise your dps on a trainig dummy to find a rotation that puts our acceptable damage. You can read up on your class to see what the best spec is and what your primary attributes are for your class. It is not all about gear and people shouldn't be snobbish, but your friend probably looked at your numbers and said OMG this guy doesn't know what he is doing.
When you were questing did you research the quest reward and target those quests or did you just zone in and start accepting quests. Wow is a big game and you will never be able to complete all of the quests prior to 80 so it is always best to target the quests that will benefit you the most. There is always PvP.
Gamer am I Aug 7th 2009 1:12PM
I hate to partially take the elitist's side, but it really is your responsibility to get in some good gear before you run heroics. Robin had good advice, so just follow her's. Just remember that there is nothing wrong with saying, "Sorry, I can't do [heroic X] with you; I'm not geared yet."
Lokasenna Aug 7th 2009 1:18PM
Unless they're the meatshield or the healbot, and unless the group is going for something like a Culling mount run, I see no reason why a fresh 80 in quest blues/greens couldn't DPS heroic instances.
The only major difference is that they'll have to be more on top of fight mechanics, especially AOE like Lightning Nova that better-geared players will be able to soak up.
Brownb Aug 7th 2009 2:14PM
He'll, I'm geared for 25 man Ulduar and I'm still not gear enough for heroic occulus
Iratio Aug 7th 2009 1:46PM
There is something to be said for that. However, if you are DPS, there are many 5th slots out there for you to sneak into. I'd say sign up, and *first* thing *ask* if you are geared enough to go. If the group is all PUG you are out of there most likely, nothing gained and nothing lost. However, if the only reason the healer and tank bring DPS is to save time, they may very well tell you to stick around for the ride!
PvtDeth Aug 7th 2009 7:21PM
I never check gear of dps on heroic runs. My main is a mage that's pulling 4k on bosses, so pretty much anything the other two dps contributes puts us over the top for minimum dps needed. Of course, it's alot smoother when everybody has 2.5k+ dps, but in the time it takes to find those guys, I could have finished the instance with the newbs.
Gear isn't a guarantee that someone will contribute meaningfully anyway. Like I said, my main does 4k+ boss dmg (my record is 4.6k on a Heroic boss) and is obviously well geared. But my alt, a cat who is epic/blue geared and was supposedly massively OP last patch struggles to get 1.2k. It's not just that I'm a bad player, I just suck at cat dps.
Rubitard Aug 7th 2009 1:14PM
It gets better! Here's an exchange that happened around level 63 or so back when BC was cool and Shatt was lagsville:
Him: Hey, warrior! You can't tank for us! You're wearing healer plate! It has Int. on it! L2Pnoob!!
Me: It was a drop that had better Sta. on it than my last chestpiece. It's just temporary until I finish this quest chain that'll get me a proper plate. Trust me, despite the Int., which I know I can't use, this is still better than what I had.
Him: Go to the AH and get a better piece!
Me: Can't. Just spent money elsewhere. You want to fund a new piece for me so you'll shut up about it?
Him: But it's a PALLY piece! DON'T WEAR IT!
Me: Just forget for one second it even has Int. It's a blue world drop! It's better than my old green from one of my first quests here in Outland!
Him: LOLZ!1!! This idiot's wearing HEALER PLATE!
Me: *ignore*
Some players can't get certain things out of their head. I felt like berating him for not yet having Black Temple gear, but I didn't think he'd get where I was going with it.
Boombaclot Aug 7th 2009 1:22PM
Soooooo what your saying is that you were trying to gear out for your bandage spec with pally gear?
dfgreat1 Aug 7th 2009 1:39PM
@Boombaclot
I think he makes sense. Maybe not the best choice ever, but you can see where he was coming from. You don't sound much better that the guy Rubitard was talking about
Samsonite Aug 7th 2009 2:02PM
As a fellow warrior, I had the same issue without the rude comments from another player. As I recall, I picked up some pally gear in my transition between Outland and Northrend.
It was a quest reward that was definitely an upgrade, so I wore it. It's not like I stole it from a pally that could actually use it. Sometimes quest rewards aren't itemized for your spec/class and it can be quite a while between appropriate upgrades.
One thing I could have done better was to research what quests could give me appropriate upgrades for my class/spec. Anyway, no harm done, do better next alt.
SunwellVialist Aug 7th 2009 2:03PM
@Boombaclot
If it's your first char in the game, you cannot be choosy. You take whatever upgrade you can get, no matter if it is primarily for another spec or not. If it is better than what you had, you put it on. Period. If you have to choose between losing performance or being able to pour out 3 DPS more, or have 300 more HP, or, etc, you should -always- choose that which brings you an advantage in Solo'ing, instancing, whatever. You are, after all, there to gear -up- from that piece, if possible.
Vinna Aug 7th 2009 2:08PM
@boombaclot
umm. totally off topic here.. but your name made me wonder.. are you my beloved Zzzee? heard you were playing horde somewhere now.. miss ya.
and if so, the ol' Z was a lovely warrior with a better healing set than most healers.. yay for dress up time.. kek.
Don't mind me I am just being a spazbot.. lol
Jason P Aug 7th 2009 2:09PM
I did something like this myself. One of the first quests I did in Outland on my human rogue gave a leather kilt as a reward and even though it had spell power increase, I took it because:
1. the stamina and other stats were a VAST improvement over the leggings I had on, and
2. The other quest rewards were unusable for me. Mail and plate I think.
I got a few people questioning and laughing at me for it, but I didnt care.
I get the same questions when someone sees me using two daggers instead of a dagger and a sword/mace/fist weapon. I use a dagger in my main hand so I can do the moves that require a dagger in my main hand and the off hand is whatever I feel like using, usually to level that weapon skill.
Draelan Aug 7th 2009 2:17PM
It bugs me to see players wearing gear that is obviously not meant for them. Warriors with Int gear, Hunters with Spell Power trinkets, etc. However, I become much more understanding if the player exhibits an understanding that it is not geared towards them, and the only reason they use it is for some specific benefit that made it better than what they had before.
I, as a Hunter, have worn 2 piece of gear with Expertise on them. A ring, and the Staff of the Plaguehound from KT, obviously geared towards rogues/feral druids. I am well aware that Expertise is utterly useless to me, but despite it, these items were better than my quest blues/greens and they were on the verge of being DE'd because no one wanted them. I have since replaced the ring (thankfully), but the RNG has not been kind to me in trying to replace the staff. I'll be able to replace it one of these days...
Rubitard Aug 7th 2009 2:33PM
I can totally sympathize with the player who takes a party member's odd gear as a warning sign that rough seas might be ahead for the group. However, I think some quick dialog and explanation should be enough to clear the air. Had I said, "So, I like Intelligence! It's part of my Warrior's character!" then that guy would have had just cause to reconsider me for the run. That chest piece probably lasted all of one 5-man run or through about three more quests. If anything, the player laughing at my gear after I explained things should have taken that as a sign that I'd be great for the instance run, as I really need better gear and would be motivated towards success. The line of thinking that would lead to such a conclusion is a rarity in WoW, sadly.