Death to spell power plate
In a recent set of posts on the subject of Prot Paladins wearing holy gear in PvP, Ghostcrawler mentioned that Prot Paladins are not intended to be able to out heal Holy Paladins in the same gear and that fixes are intended that will remove their ability to do this. I'd like to offer a suggestion: destroy all spell power plate. Destroy it! Destroy, destroy, destroy! Exterminate it! Extirpate it from the surface of Azeroth! Perhaps in a Cataclysm of some kind. (Except Judgement. That can stay.)My reasoning isn't to nerf Holy Paladins as healers. I love all healers equally. Rather, my idea here is to incorporate a class design that's been picking up steam since the end of Burning Crusade. Back before patch 3.0 dropped, two Paladin specs wore spell plate, Holy and Protection. Since that was two specs out of a possible six plate wearing talent specializations (2/6 = 1/3 = roughly 33 percent, I'm not doing a repeating) that meant that there was a fairly sizable minority that wanted the stuff.
Flash forward to Wrath of the Lich King. There are now three plate wearing classes. Two of them (six total talent specs) have absolutely no use for spell plate. The one class that does use spell plate? Well, the Protection tree was revamped, so tanking Paladins don't wear it. Retribution has been giving spell plate the stink eye forever. So we now have 1 out of 9 possible specs wearing the stuff, and yet it drops everywhere. There's no reason spell plate needs to exist, much less be a protected species by Blizzard when they went out of their way to do away with tanking leather, for example.
Of course, what will Holy Paladins do without spell plate? Much as Protection Paladins needed a means to keep their mana up and their threat intact when they switched away from the stuff, Holy will need talents and abilities that can convert the stats on physical plate (we'll assume DPS plate, as it seems weird that Holy would use tanking plate) to healing power.
Frankly, the Holy Paladin is an anomaly in the way Paladins play. Both Ret and Prot paladins wade into the thick of the fray while Holy is forced to stand around in the back and heal. Combine this with Holy's unique healing niche of being a primary tank/single target healer (to be fair, Beacon of Light does provide some group healing utility, and I'm sure dedicated Paladin healers could detail far more) and you end up with a class that tends to stand in one place spamming heals on one target a lot of the time. There are, however, ways that you could convert the Holy Paladin into a healer who actually ran into melee in order to provide his heals.
The first thing that comes to mind is changing Divine Intellect so that it converts a stat like Strength or Stamina into Intellect rather than simply adding more int by percentage. Then change Holy Guidance so that it grants a percentage of Attack Power as Spell Power. Then what? Well, we'd then need to expand the power of Seals and Judgments so that a holy paladin in full DPS gear could run into melee, unload his Judgement on a target and it would convert the damage he or she would normally deal into healing for his or her group or raid. There's lots of ways this could be accomplished - a talent like Beacon of Light that you placed on a target that directly converted the damage the Paladin would deal into AoE healing, perhaps, or a beefed up Judgement of Light that stacked with the Paladin's attacks to provide really significant group healing but which required the Paladin to keep attacking to keep the stack up. There could be a specific Holy Paladin Aura that provided a small but noticeable group heal or even a Heal over Time effect on a designated target (think Blessing of Renewal) where the damage the Paladin deals creates healing on those with that specific blessing. You'd have to watch how the numbers work: either the Blessing provides a fraction of the Paladin's DPS or the Paladin's damage is instead converted to healing, so that while he or she has to stay in melee range she's still providing healing and not actual damage to the group or raid.
This is just one path, of course, and I have neither the skill nor the resources of the entire Blizzard dev team who can come at this problem from all sorts of angles I'm aware I'm missing. Still, however they decide to solve the issue of spell power plate on a tanking class in PvP and the unexpected healing power it gives, I'd really like to lobby for the complete and total annihilation of all spell power plate. Destroy! Destroy!
Filed under: Paladin, Items, Analysis / Opinion, Odds and ends, News items, PvP, Forums, Arena
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Reader Comments (Page 12 of 12)
Sum1 Aug 12th 2009 10:36AM
Is there any reason that removing SP plate should be taken out for one particular type play? Accoring to what I read from this there is only one reason, which is that it affects PVP play. I don't see you take into account that Pally's have always been able to wear plate in both the lore and the game be it Healing, Tank, and Ret pally. Why because it affects PVP should it suddenly be removed from the entire aspect of the game. I for one never play in PVP on my Pally on don't see how wearing plate in prot spec and healing would change anything in PVE. If a pally spec'd as Prot with plate healing gear went into an instance and tried to heal they are still going to die just as quick as any other char in a raid instance and healing would not even be as close as a holy pally. I like being able to wear gear like any other paladin character in the game while healing in instances because thats the way I see the pally class as a whole. All this taken into account I don't see any reason for it to be removed from the game just because it affects one specific aspect of gameplay. I could go more in depth but don't want to type any more at this point.
Hal Aug 12th 2009 10:49AM
In retrospect, I see one very big reason why Blizzard will only make a modest adjustment to this "problem": The type of solution Rossi and others have bandied about here would be a fundamental change to the way Holy Paladins are played.
Call me crazy, but I don't think at this stage Blizzard has any intention of revamping classes in such a manner. Imagine if they changed Warlocks so that only one spec used pets. That would be a huge change and require sweeping adjustments to the class, and likely to the items that the new specs would need to be effective.
In sort, we'll see something small. Probably a nerf to Protadin healing/spellpower (with a concurrent boost in threat, if necessary). It's nice to dream of a world in a "What if they did it this way?" sort of way, but it's not happening. Not this late in the game.
Excelion Aug 12th 2009 11:57AM
Blizzard has already made a fundamental change to the way pally class by nerfing the mana regen from illumination. Holy pally's were different from every other healing class in that they relied less on MP5 and more on crit % for their mana regen. By nerfing illumination it forced pallies to stack Int and wear mostly MP5 gear (plate or mail as this has been my experience so far) so you don't go OOM healing some of the more damage intensive fights (e.g. mimron). Patch 3.2 probably forced a lot of pally's to regem/regear completely.
Creid Aug 12th 2009 11:01AM
Why is everyones idea to change what holy paladins use or how they heal? Why can't DK's or Ret/Prot paladins use this spellpower plate. I'm just saying if they changed how other specs geared this QQ would end.
Talwynn Aug 12th 2009 11:11AM
I apologize, I sorta mentioned tanking leather and mail and didn't really close the statement.. what I really wanted to say is:
"As much as you hate seeing spellpower plate, I hate seeing leather tanking gear, or mail spellpower, or etc... HOWEVER, I don't think eliminating a whole class of gear is justifiable."
I know it was the big change with WotLK, but you gotta draw a line... I mean, geez, if you are gonna eliminate spellpower plate, why not just as well eliminate all classes of gear, and just have it modified on to the spec/class that equips it... like that everyone could equip everything!!!
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As for my solution, it does make sense... if you want to be a Prot Pally that heals, just don't take Touched by the Light. As it is, if you spec this way you get spellpower from spellpower gear AND from 30% of your stamina Stamina on gear. When you consider that PVP spellpower plate has large amounts of stamina in most cases, you can end up with about 1500 STA, and 2200SP from healing plate, in prot spec. That equates to about, 2650 SP which is a HUGE increase from one talent.
How is removing SP from gear when prot spec'd with Touched by Light hurting the spec? Prot was never meant to be a healing spec and they should not be outperforming holy spec'd pallies.
Yukeake Aug 12th 2009 12:00PM
The problem here, as has been mentioned (and seemingly ignored) is *not* frequency of SP Plate drops, but the scaling of SP in Prot spec vs. Holy, specifically with PVP gear in mind. Prot is putting out bigger healing numbers in PVP than Holy, which isn't quite right.
The solution isn't to get rid of SP Plate, but to change the offending talents.
30% Stam -> SP for Prot is outscaling 20% Int -> SP for Holy, due to the high amounts of Stamina present on PVP gear - twice or more the amount of Int.
So, first, cut the 30% down to 10%. Big nerf, yes, but it should bring the SP numbers back in line.
It'll affect threat generation for Prot tanks - so another adjustment will need to be made. Perhaps adding 5-10% additional threat to a talented Devotion Aura or Righteous Fury would mitigate it. (Number chosen arbitrarily for example, I'd assume Blizzard would run the proper numbers to make things come out even)
It'll affect Prot's damage output in PVP slightly. So tweak a couple coefficients on Prot's damage spells to compensate for that.
The goal, of course, being to nerf Prot's healing output, while leaving their tanking ability constant, and not changing Holy in any significant way.
A1CYancy Aug 12th 2009 12:19PM
Do not take away spell power plate.
It was a mistake to make ANY spec of pally not dependent on intellect, mana, and spell power. This is what is unique about the class. It's a class that is technically a caster but is still in the middle of the fight. Does NO ONE in this game have any idea about lore and fantasy anymore??
Keep spell plate. Make ret and prot value it. They should be balancing spell plate in their gear. Make them seperate from warriors. Warriors should be defense capping and stacking block, Prot pallies should stack spell power which should affect their mitigation (i.e. Spell power = _% of defense.)
As for Holy, why doesn't anyone ask why there's a concentration aura but WE AREN'T getting HIT? It shouldn't be for just PvP. Put us BACK into a fight. We shouldn't have the ranges clothies have. We SHOULD be in with the other plate wearers. Get rid of Divine int. and give us a talent deeper in the Holy tree to give us more int based on Stam. Deep enough to keep Prot from it.
How many people NEED spell power leather? Rogues certainly don't. Keep Spell plate!
Also anyone else ever wonder why DKs have spells but don't require or benefit from Spell Power?
demlax19 Aug 12th 2009 2:30PM
honestly i hope they put holy pallies like this... ill have a reason to heal. I get bored of healing and i completely suck at healing pvp because of stuns etc. Sure i havent tried the prot version of it, but id rather kick ass as ret and pop those instant heals AOW. But if they change it to this i would probably make holy my main spec and dps the shit outa things and heal with that damage
bongo Aug 12th 2009 12:47PM
Since the patch I have started running into battle and joining the melee in my holy plate. With the + mana seal and judgment, all of my mana problems have gone away. While the dps I add is laughable, I now have no mana issues unless there is a boss that is doing massive aoe damage and I have to back off.
It actually makes wearing plate useful. Standing in the back with plate on makes me look like the shy kid that went to the dance and is afraid to step up.
Plus I can make fun of the clothies more now too :) Please don't make me heal in my pajamas.
Drale on Cairne
IIthryn Aug 12th 2009 11:01PM
The proper solution to spellpower plate "cluttering the loot table," as some have said, is to make its droprate proportional to the usefulness it has across classes, which I suspect has already happened to an extent.
I don't see the holy paladins in my guild gearing up considerably faster than anyone else. So they don't have anyone else to roll against? QQ, dps classes. They don't, but they still aren't decked out in i226 yet, which means some other factor (hello droprate) is already taking care of the balance.
Deadly. Off. Topic. Aug 12th 2009 4:58PM
Wow. Complaining about pvp gear and wanting to take away spellpower so that pve people get screwed. Wow, original.
Sorry, my sarcasm is based on the annoyance that someone could have dealt with the idea of spell power on a PVP item solely with that aspect - the PVP aspect of it. No instead, we get this flat out rant about how it should be removed for all. Yeah....right.
jabbawonga Aug 12th 2009 6:37PM
just a thought but wouldnt this just scream out for ppl to start rolling shockadins again in pvp? pew pew healing? ppl would find a way to get a certain stat so high that they 1 shot crit everything whilst healing themselves etc-in fact perhaps a shockadin 2.0.........
elitebrute Aug 13th 2009 6:10AM
For the record elitebrute is my shammy this is still ootter why it changed my name again I've no freaking clue
domdomruel Aug 14th 2009 7:15AM
Paladins are like warriors which can heal, they are best in retribution but also works well as party or raid healers if they specialize in protection. This is one of the best class in game, you can damage like a warrior and you can hit monsters while healing from it.
Nice plate to have I want to have a gear like this one.
domdomruel Aug 14th 2009 7:16AM
Paladins are like warriors which can heal, they are best in retribution but also works well as party or raid healers if they specialize in protection. This is one of the best class in game, you can damage like a warrior and you can hit monsters while healing from it.
http://www.wowstrategybook.com/wow-paladin-guide.php
McRaider Aug 14th 2009 7:48AM
Decrease the amount of SP in gear and put a talent deep in the holy tree to increase it to good values?
Rastas Aug 20th 2009 5:43AM
I would change my main off paladin were they to do any of that :D
I love my indestructible little healing machine to death, but my dear paladin without 20k mana? No way!
Spell power plate might be some sort of ancient relic, but removing it entirely and revamping the whole spec just to get rid of those items seems like enormous amount of needless work. Would they be converting ap from items to spellpower and str or agi to int? Yeah, right... And I'm sure all plate dps would just love this idea?
reddranger Aug 27th 2009 10:28PM
theres actually 2 problems here:
1 is that pallies are going prot to heal, because for some reason, the prot tree is better for pvp healing pallies as it stands right now. prot is better.
2nd is that holy sucks for pvp healing, so i think they would also have to somehow buff holy healing in pvp, make them more survivable or give them some sort of tricks/interrupts or something. thats why people go prot, not just survivability but tricks, too. holy sucks in pvp
if they just made prot healing unusable somehow, then pvp holy/healing pallies would be the worst healer in pvp. hands down. all the cool holy gimmicks can be purged, we get one crap interrupt that has a huge cd, and we get the pvp/human trinket or a 5 min cd bubble to get out of things. very easy to 'lock up' a holy/healing pvp pally.
so if they simply nerf prot healing, theyll just end up with more balance issues because with no change. holy/healing in pvp is fail, needs buff at the same time.
and all that stuff about completely re-working the class from scratch is fail.
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