How the "Summon Memory" fight in the Trial of the Champion should have been done

I was already aware that Trial of the Champion sees you fighting a bunch of champions on horseback, then getting either Eadric the Pure of High Confessor Paletress. We, luckily, got the latter. I like Paletress. She's an intriguing character as well as an epitome of goodness who's not afraid to fight for her beliefs. She also has the coolest attack in the Trial: she summons the memory of a past encounter. This was the bit I was waiting for and when Onyxia appeared, I was momentarily stunned.
I fought Onyxia for the first time when the need for a key was removed. I have this little fixation for finding/hunting/chatting with/killing dragons. It was a bugged encounter I thoroughly enjoyed both from a lore and raiding perspective. So, Memory-Onyxia was raining down destruction upon us and it occurred to me that the fight wasn't familiar. This memory didn't use any of Onyxia's key abilities or attacks. In essence, this encounter was just a generic 82 elite given Onyxia's skin.
I was gutted.
I know it sounds like I'm whining and taking it all out of context, but the idea of fighting such bosses, many whom I will never raid in their 'natural environments' was very appealing. At the same time there was that chance of stepping back into the past and reliving a classic encounter. A way of remembering how your toon has changed over the years and summing up some of their most heroic achievements against impossible odds. It's reminding players that, even if they just dinged 80 and only did the most basic dungeons, they are just as qualified to stand up and fight Arthas as guilds like Ensidia and Vodka.
In an elitist world, the contest aspect of the Coliseum would be in full force. Completing all the content would be a prerequisite. You would literally need to show Tirion, Thrall and Varian Wrynn your strips before you could be allowed to go anywhere near Icecrown Citadel. Instead, in keeping with Blizzard's "endgame for all policy", the Coliseum is more lore-based than anything else.
So how could the Summon Memory encounter have been improved? The randomness of the encounter is the bit they got right. After all, how many people have downed Algalon? I wonder how much of these percentages are random chance or whether they are some how tied to the Achievements of the group?
My common sense tells me the chances of getting Onyxia over, say, Illidan is more than likely tied to the kind of boss, the level/complexity of the content and when it was released. Ignis and Cyanigosa are probably going to be more common simply because everybody and their guildies has done Wrath content like Violet Hold and are moving through Ulduar at the moment.
The other aspect of this is whose memory Paletress is summoning. After all, we all started at different times during the lifecycle of WoW and most of us have pugged certain content. What happens if you get the Memory of Vashj, for example, but never ventured into Serpentshrine Cavern or Archimonde but never went into Hyjal? Yes the ability to play against different bosses does make the encounter an interesting one, even if this is only on a physical level, but raids and bosses need more than that. It would be nice, for example, if each Memory had one of their original abilities rather than spamming the same spells and Waking Nightmare regardless of the skin it was wearing. A little originality in the combat would really elevate the fight, transforming it from something mundane and almost boring into something genuinely spectacular.
My ideal example of how this would work goes like this. Rather than summon a memory, Paletress would send you back into your own memory. The boss you got would depend on which one all of your groups members has defeated the most, making to pick one you all had encountered. You would find yourself in that boss's environment (so if you got Gruul you'd find yourself in his Lair in Blade's Edge Mountains), except there would be the feel of an illusion about it. You might still be able to see the banners and the important NPCs in the stands or hear their clapping. That aside, it would be Gruul but for the 'Memory of' prefix.
He would have all of his unique abilities as well as Waking Nightmare and would be his original level. If Blizzard really wanted to be smart, they would debuff your character with a spell called 'Regression' in which you had the same kind of level and abilities you did when the content containing that boss came out. If you were to, by chance, die the illusion would shatter and Paletress would allow you to have another go, even though you stood the chance of getting a different boss. It's an idea ripe with promise but one which will, sadly, never be primarily due to technical limitations.
The idea of summoning a memory of a past battle seemed so good on paper. A chance to do something really interesting. Blizzard could have taken the original bosses and made them the highlight of the 5-man content of the Patch. Instead, they just recycled their skins and wrapped them around a standard elite. When they could have made it much more, well, memorable.
I was gutted.
I know it sounds like I'm whining and taking it all out of context, but the idea of fighting such bosses, many whom I will never raid in their 'natural environments' was very appealing. At the same time there was that chance of stepping back into the past and reliving a classic encounter. A way of remembering how your toon has changed over the years and summing up some of their most heroic achievements against impossible odds. It's reminding players that, even if they just dinged 80 and only did the most basic dungeons, they are just as qualified to stand up and fight Arthas as guilds like Ensidia and Vodka.
In an elitist world, the contest aspect of the Coliseum would be in full force. Completing all the content would be a prerequisite. You would literally need to show Tirion, Thrall and Varian Wrynn your strips before you could be allowed to go anywhere near Icecrown Citadel. Instead, in keeping with Blizzard's "endgame for all policy", the Coliseum is more lore-based than anything else.
So how could the Summon Memory encounter have been improved? The randomness of the encounter is the bit they got right. After all, how many people have downed Algalon? I wonder how much of these percentages are random chance or whether they are some how tied to the Achievements of the group?
My common sense tells me the chances of getting Onyxia over, say, Illidan is more than likely tied to the kind of boss, the level/complexity of the content and when it was released. Ignis and Cyanigosa are probably going to be more common simply because everybody and their guildies has done Wrath content like Violet Hold and are moving through Ulduar at the moment.
The other aspect of this is whose memory Paletress is summoning. After all, we all started at different times during the lifecycle of WoW and most of us have pugged certain content. What happens if you get the Memory of Vashj, for example, but never ventured into Serpentshrine Cavern or Archimonde but never went into Hyjal? Yes the ability to play against different bosses does make the encounter an interesting one, even if this is only on a physical level, but raids and bosses need more than that. It would be nice, for example, if each Memory had one of their original abilities rather than spamming the same spells and Waking Nightmare regardless of the skin it was wearing. A little originality in the combat would really elevate the fight, transforming it from something mundane and almost boring into something genuinely spectacular.
My ideal example of how this would work goes like this. Rather than summon a memory, Paletress would send you back into your own memory. The boss you got would depend on which one all of your groups members has defeated the most, making to pick one you all had encountered. You would find yourself in that boss's environment (so if you got Gruul you'd find yourself in his Lair in Blade's Edge Mountains), except there would be the feel of an illusion about it. You might still be able to see the banners and the important NPCs in the stands or hear their clapping. That aside, it would be Gruul but for the 'Memory of' prefix.
He would have all of his unique abilities as well as Waking Nightmare and would be his original level. If Blizzard really wanted to be smart, they would debuff your character with a spell called 'Regression' in which you had the same kind of level and abilities you did when the content containing that boss came out. If you were to, by chance, die the illusion would shatter and Paletress would allow you to have another go, even though you stood the chance of getting a different boss. It's an idea ripe with promise but one which will, sadly, never be primarily due to technical limitations.
The idea of summoning a memory of a past battle seemed so good on paper. A chance to do something really interesting. Blizzard could have taken the original bosses and made them the highlight of the 5-man content of the Patch. Instead, they just recycled their skins and wrapped them around a standard elite. When they could have made it much more, well, memorable.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Bosses






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 6)
Trippleye Aug 11th 2009 8:13PM
Sounds good in theory...but how could pugs do against the actual bosses abilities...Not well probably
Sister Christian Aug 11th 2009 9:27PM
No, it's actually terrible idea. You know that boss you've done the most in the game, the one you are sick of, and the reason you don't run that dundeon any more... Yeah fight s/he/it again. OH joy.
Even the current implementation is bad. They are all the same boss, but with different skins. The fights should actually be different.
What if she actually sent you back to onyxia's lair, or Van Cleef's boat, or to the forest to fight hoggar.... That would be epic and awesome!!!
Terethall Aug 11th 2009 10:44PM
Last night, I did ToC with some friends. Before fighting Paletress, I was sure to brief them, should the most complicated and difficult boss in the game appear.
I instructed my friends that odd-numbered players should stay to the left, and even-numbered to the right. (For the unfamiliar, that would be 1, 3, etc. to the left, and 2, 4 etc. to the right. The last two players were assigned to deal with young dragons.) I warned them that aggro was an issue, and that at the beginning, they should dps at a slow pace. And I meant AT AN EXTREMELY SLOW PACE. I informed them that if they draw the attention of the dragon and caused Onyxia to attack them, they would suffer a loss of 50 points that correlated directly to the amount of loot they would receive. (Primarily because by gaining the hatred of the boss, it would become apparent that a player was not entirely sure of what his or her role was.)
I also reminded my friends that the rear of the dragon was a dangerous place to stand, and that if they were forcibly placed in a situation that caused extra young dragons to spawn, they would suffer another loss of 50 points. (This is because such an event would only occur if the party member did not know where he or she should be standing for this fight.)
I also clarified that there was no wipe of Onyxia's threat list, an furthermore, that any rumors my friends may have heard about some mythical "aggro reset" were, in fact, completely fallacious. However, I told my party members that once our warrior tank had applied two stacks of "Sunder Armor" to Onyxia, they would be able to, essentially, begin damaging the boss - assuming, of course, that a thorough comprehension of monster hate was held by all, and that no mistakes would be made in this department.
Then, a brief recap: I reminded the dps members of my group how to perform their jobs, by using both direct-damage and damage-over-time spells. I also reminded people to help any person assigned to kill young dragons. This served as my segue to a brief summary of the second phase of this fight. Phase 2 would require an enormous effort on behalf of the dps players in order to lower the hit points of Onyxia in the quickest way that could be managed. I reminded them to be sure that their damage-over-time debuffs had excellent uptime, with fully two rows of these "DoTs", including the Priest spell, "Shadow Word: Pain", Warlock curses (such as "Curse of Agony" and "Curse of Doom"), the Warrior ability "Rend", as well as any other abilities they may possess.
However, as I expected, there were not enough of these DoTs applied to the target. I called for more DoTs. I called for higher dps in general. This part of the fight, I told my friends, would require them to hit the boss like they meant it. I tried to allieviate the tension by informing my group that they would have a brief respite during the third phase while I regained Onyxia's attention.
I instructed my group to reserve any cooldowns that would help them reduce their threat until Onyxia descended to the ground. These abilities included the Hunter's "Feign Death", the Rogue's "Vanish", and, after a brief pause for some obscenity, I recalled that it also included the Priest ability, "Fade".
At 40%, I called out, the damage-over-time must end! However, prior to that point, it was imperative, I reminded my group, that more damage-over-time effects were applied, more damage-over-time effects, more damage-over-time effects, more, and more, and more, and MORE DAMAGE-OVER-TIME EFFECTS!! Suddenly, I realized that enough DoTs had been applied, and I instructed my group to cease casting them immediately. I called for an increase in dps. I called my friends, Lee, Mogris, Foresight, Sarth, and Isis to come immediately to the middle of the room, only to realize that I had violated an important principle! I yelled for everyone to remember not to stand next to other people. Then I called Mogris back to the center and asked for my hit points to be restored. I noticed that Lee was standing too close to Onyxia's breath ability, and instructed him to move away from the head.
I had a bad feeling about the fight at this point, and I could sense that a wipe was imminent. Just as I was about to yell something about watching aggro, I was informed by one of my close friends that one of the members of the group had been placed, against his will, into an area that caused him to draw the attention of quite a few, I daresay, young dragons.
Unfortunately, I don't remember much past this point. I began to lose my normally serene composure started yelling incomprehensible and oft-contradictory instructions to no one in particular. I suppose it was a result of some stress I had been feeling as the result of my hectic work schedule. But whatever the cause, I took out my frustration on my friends. My parents must have heard me yelling in my room, because then my mom got scared, and said, "You're movin' with your auntie and uncle in Bel Air." So I whistled for a cab, and when it came near, the license plate said "FRESH" and it had dice in the mirror. If anything, I could say that this cab was rare, but I thought, "Naw, forget it. Yo holmes, to Bel Air!" I pulled up to the house about seven or eight, and I yelled to the cabby, "Yo holmes, smell you later!" I looked at my kingdom; I was finally there to sit on my throne as the Prince of Bel Air.
OH WAIT, NEVERMIND. THIS FIGHT IS THE SAME AS EVERY OTHER.
x Aug 11th 2009 10:56PM
@terethall
you sir, win!
Bod Aug 11th 2009 10:57PM
I'm afraid, risking being greyed out, I agree with the OP and disagree with Trippleye. It was possible for Bliz to make a downgraded version of Nax with bosses having similar but not identical versions of the original.
It's also possible for bliz to construct instances with multiple and alternative versions of bosses (violet hold for example), which even non raiders can learn to navigate.
I would not have been a challenge to have these visions have some echo of their former abilities, some trick, some challenge, some memory for those of us who were there. To have these visions as poor impotent alternatives seems like a wasted opportunity.
& @ Terethall lmao well done.
Veliaf Aug 12th 2009 2:01AM
Terethall, what a legend.
You win 50 internets (DKP).
Knyle2 Aug 12th 2009 7:17AM
I have been suggesting for years that they make an option to scale all of the "vanilla" content up, make them drop badges, Which would now be conquest, and Make all those low blues BOE.
It would increase the number of options we'd have to run, rather than doing the same 10 heroics everyday.
It would make a bunch of nice loots availbale to upcoming lowbies. and people twinking out their new toons.
It would make the world feel much bigger again. As of now, Whenever I re-install I wish their was a way to choose not to install zones I know ill never be going to.
Bob Dewane Aug 12th 2009 9:31AM
I like the fight the way it is and I think I understand WHY it is the way it is. Paltress can't actually create EACH boss to fight you. She can create the "memory" and that's it. Does it do much? No. Is it a terribly tough fight on its own? No. So the spice she adds to the mix is to have it take on the FORM of a memory to add INTIMIDATION to the pre-fight mix. To put it in the context of the "actual" events as they unfold in the game, Paltress' hope may be that you panic at seeing a past foe causes you err in your ways and allow her to gain the upper hand.
Besides if they did only pull the memory from a boss that EVERYONE in the group fought, I would venture in there less often for sure. I have not played since the dawn of time in Azeroth. I have not participated in many of the old raids. When I PUG TOC, I am hoping that I group with people who have fought bosses I haven't so that I get a chance to see them in game, even if only as a memory.
Bottom line, I like the fight as is.
swampsquatch Aug 12th 2009 7:32PM
"Sounds good in theory...but how could pugs do against the actual bosses abilities...Not well probably"
I agree with Trippleye. The only thing I could add is if they made the boss have unique abilities scaled up/down to the proper level of the heroic it might not be a disaster. TBH, I really don't want the WoW data base to have to find a boss everyone in the group has done. That would be horrible and waste time. Also, I don't think WoW should require someone to learn 20+ unique boss fights FOR A HEROIC. If they put a raid boss in that summoned a random boss from the past I could understand it. The way the OP stated, it would be asking way too much for a heroic.
If I had to make a decision if I wanted it the way it is now, or the way the OP stated, I would say 100% leave it the way it is.
No offense Leslie, but everything you said after, "My ideal example of how this would work goes like this," along with the idea of regressing your characters stats, is a horrible idea. Why gear up and get new abilities if they make bosses where you cant use them?
"OMG WE GOT HOGGER! EVERYONE AUTO ATTACK!"
ForgedSong Aug 11th 2009 8:18PM
OK. So how exactly would the Hogger fight work then?
How would Algalon work? How would people get the achievement if you need to see / down that boss before? Wouldn't that limit the people who can get the achievement for experiencing all the memories.
Have you seen how many memories there are? Do you think Blizzard would take their time to go and make 20 + (random number) versions of the same fight for a normal instance.
And then if you are running it you have a chance of having to explain that fight every single time to people who had never done Onyxia, Algalon, Archimonde and the list goes on.
Adamant Aug 11th 2009 8:44PM
You only need to slay five of them.
And really, I don't care if it would have taken longer. Paletress is essentially a Mograine-Whitemane fight right now. (Whitemane? Paletress? If you didn't see that connection, . .)
Run in, fight her, she decides to sleep-heal-and-summon-her-pet. This could have been a wonderful fight, but I find myself facing Shadow VanShadow, not Edwin VanCleef's memory. I remember him being a fighting that took some tanking skill at a low level. Not "pick him up and heal the spell." I remember Hakkar being a fun, interesting way to kill a boss. Now, it's "pick him up and heal the spell." The list goes on.
Should have just given us a Shadow Paletress to fight, named "Memory of Repentence" and given it the abilities. Other than baiting us with fighting Shadow Onyxia like a bad form of Shadow Lugia in Pokemon.
jbodar Aug 11th 2009 10:31PM
@Adamant
I agree that it would be nice if the shadows used mini versions of their abilities but what happens when you get Boss Y and half the party hasn't fought that one before? How do you explain a fight WHILE you're doing it? I guess they could've changed the whole fight such that she summons the Memory before you pull, giving you a change to make sure everyone's on the same page with tactics, but still... Hell, I'm lucky if I get a PUG that knows to stop DPSing her and kill the Memory. ;)
Overall, I like that we get Paletress and Eadric to spice things up, along with the different combos of jousters.
Azkadellia Aug 12th 2009 4:07AM
Random boss encounters too hard?
Wow, good job they never had an Opera event in Kharazan then...
TheKarmaPolice Aug 12th 2009 7:32AM
It doesn't have to do exactly the same spells, just a handful of the abilities that make that boss unique
like Memory of Onyxia could tail swipe and firebreath
memory of hogger could stun and summon gnoll adds
they shouldn't have made all those bosses do the same spell, that's not a memory, that's an illusion
Chamual Aug 12th 2009 7:38PM
So there's a boss in the last dungeon in northrend that has a boss that has 20 forms and players are required to learn each of them if they want to kill them..... Are people really whinning about this now? It would be awesome to have a setup like that, what better way to keep the instance fresh past those first 3-4 runs in the first week, never to venture back?
Why is it that the idea of actually having to work out a boss and use some skill is such an anethma to WoW and alot of players at the moment?
devilsei Aug 11th 2009 8:20PM
I'm glad at least someone wanted the same from this memory thing as I did.
They took epic, monstrous obstacles we had to fight tooth and nail to bring down in a bloody battle, and gutted them all til they were a generic shadowy husk of their former self. They should of given each "memory" at least one key ability from the real selves.
Hogger's stun, Onyxia's fire breath, Heigan's poisoned floors (could just be a simple "void zone" styled attack). Just one ability that stood out as theirs alone, or best represented them.
Instead, we got a big piece of meaty mediocrity wrapped in the stale shell of untapped potential, and cooked over the low flame of laziness.
Matthew Aug 11th 2009 8:25PM
Don't try too hard to earn that blog-comment Pulitzer, man.
devilsei Aug 11th 2009 8:32PM
Not trying, I said this exact thing before almost a week ago, and the most I got was "LAWL U WAN DEM TO REDU FITES?!"
epik.phailure.gamer Aug 11th 2009 10:48PM
I for one, like your writing style, it is a breath of fresh air in a normaly stale room full of words rambled together missing letters to look "leet"
jbodar Aug 11th 2009 11:31PM
Yeah, I could get behind this idea. A small something to give each boss a bit of flavor, but that's easily picked up by a PUG (green stuff is bad, mmkay). I think that's kind of what they were going for with the different jousters -- the Mage has Sheep, the Rogue drops poison zones, the Hunter has lightning arrows (woot, Amazon!), etc.
The article just obsesses over this encounter WAY too much. Recreating a raid boss you pick using a convoluted system and then all your abilities regress to some arbitrary level? It's literally HALF of a boss encounter in a 5-Man (Eadric being the other half). That's like complaining that the barber shops don't include a 3-D model editor to create your own haircuts or that the Oracle/Frenzyheart dailies don't have a rich interaction system a la Mass Effect or KOTOR 2.