Encrypted Text: The Rogue Q&A in review
Every Wednesday, Chase Christian of Encrypted Text invites you to enter the world of shadows, as we explore the secrets and mechanics of the Rogue class. This week, we talk about the Rogue Q & A recently released by Blizzard.Last week, Blizzard released the long-awaited (at least by me) Rogue Q&A series. Ghostcrawler and the rest of the community team answered many of our long-standing questions, and gave us some insight into where Rogues are headed as a class. You can read the full details of the Q&A that Eliah posted for us.
After reading the questions and answers, I breathed a sigh of relief. No hints or indications of any nerfs coming our way, and Blizzard actually acknowledged several longstanding flaws with the class. Not only that, but they actually provided possible solutions; I'll be taking them with a grain of salt. New Rogues are excited about our class' complexity and diversity, while experienced Rogues are proud that we are now respected as damage dealers instead of being seen as second-class DPS.
The highlights are after the cut.
"Vanish isn't working properly"
This sentence alone sealed the deal for me. A very straight answer from the development team, admitting that us shadow warriors haven't been making it up all along. And they're not giving us the same line about "it's server side so it will always be broken". GC actually gave a suggested fix that I would love to see put in place. It's something simple enough that even latency and spell resolution would be unable to interfere with Vanish keeping us in stealth for longer periods of time. The idea of "guaranteed" functionality from cooldowns is a topic I've harped on enough already, and I'm really excited to see the team at Blizzard look into providing Rogues with some reliability.
"Both abilities are largely where we want them"
While talking about Overkill and Mutilate, the two most-nerfed Rogue abilities in WotLK, GC confirms that the spells are relatively balanced and that our current PvP standard of Mutilate / Prep is here to stay. Our burst at the launch of WotLK was insane, and the toning down of our crazy out-of-stealth salvo came with the tradeoff of increased sustained damage via poison normalization. All in all, Mutilate has it pretty good in PvP right now, with Rogues seen in some of the most popular comps in all arena brackets. In addition, I find Mutilate to be refreshing to play in the new Isle of Conquest BG, where launching yourself over the wall via a Catapult allows you some sneaky assassination work.
"Rogue damage is sufficient now"
I agree completely. I was able to run a quick Trial of the Crusader (10 man) this week (and scored the sweet Acidmaw Treads!). My damage was at the top of the meters, and with clever use of Blade Flurry to clean off Snobolds from my allies and Cloak of Shadows to help me through some of the twin Jormungar debuffs, I was able to contribute nearly 100% of my time to slaying the Northrend Beasts.
Rogues have seen a lot of PvE buffs, especially in unforeseen ways, such as the new Feint and the oft-heralded Fan of Knives. I love the fact that my class is not immediately judged as inferior before I even get a chance to show my skill. The general WoW populace knows that a Rogue is capable of incredible damage and can minimize their incoming damage to ensure survival. That gets our foot in the door to impress even the most skeptical of critics.
"It's meant as a tool that's part of a toolkit, not an I-win button"
When talking about Cloak of Shadows, GC confirms what I had suspected: that CoS is 90% on purpose. It forces us to run out of things like Shock Blast (as mentioned) while still providing decent PvP utility (especially in the dispelling current debuffs portion). I will simply have to stop leaning on it as "preventing magic" and instead use it more as "possibly preventing magic", the same way that it's still dangerous to run up to a Bladestorming Warrior.
"A slightly more tanky rogue that can survive more damage"
This is something that I know many of my fellow Rogues have been asking to see for quite some time. I always felt that the idea of Feint is great: short duration damage reduction, incredibly potent, with a short cooldown. It encourages a very predictive playstyle, and forces the Rogue to take active steps to defending themselves. I believe that Ghostly Strike was a step in this direction, but 15% dodge is simply not enough to make it a real defensive CD. Perhaps if Cloak of Shadows simply reduced magical damage and debuff duration by 50%, but had a 30 second cooldown? I enjoy the idea of a very flexible Rogue who's cooldowns are more like presences or stances instead of short-lived OP ownage with long-term weakness once used.
"Ultimately, we settled on axes for rogues."
Raise your hand if you've already ground out the weapon skill to level 400 for Axes. I picked up a pair of the blue axes that you can buy from the Sons of Hodir at Revered reputation. They're not going to top any DPS charts, but they look so cool when I'm cutting up a group of mobs using Blade Flurry and Slice and Dice. Some of the BIS Combat weapons may even turn out to be axes, depending on what other items we find in the Trial of the Crusader's loot table.
"We could see making it a major feature"
GC is referring to "poison swapping" here, where a Rogue will switch weapons to apply a particular poison, and then swap back to their "real" poisons and weapons. While there is definitely no promise or even hint that this is being worked on, if it did make it to live, it would bring back memories of playing the Assassin class in Diablo II. The ability to switch weapons and poisons in a quick and simple way (and effectively 50% of your character) would really bring a lot of smoothness to what is now a very macro-driven class. I've got macros to swap to slow weapons for FoK and Killing Spree, weapons to swap so I can quickly apply Mind Numbing or Anesthetic Poison to a mob, and even more crazy macros. Having some of that built into the UI would be a godsend.
Conclusion:
Rogues are in a great place. Blizzard agrees. This is probably one of the few times that a class can really see eye-to-eye with the developers and not have any real outstanding issues to complain about. I'm very happy with the insight we received in the Q&A, and I am tickled pink about the incoming fix to Vanish (whatever it may be). Let's just hope that nothing breaks until we're done with Arthas!
Filed under: Rogue, Analysis / Opinion, Odds and ends, (Rogue) Encrypted Text






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Rochmoninoff Aug 12th 2009 3:29PM
Yes it was overall gratifying to see that we're at our target level (no major nerfs, no situations so broken we need major buffs).
I was disappointed that such short shrift was given to the subt tree.
That tree is overwhelmed by the OP HaT ability.
That tree was a 51 point talent that's not used.
That tree can't decide if it's "all about the opener", "all about the finisher", "all about daggers" or "all about hemo".
It just lacks focus and needs a serious overhaul. Assassination & Combat are great. Subt is goofy.
I was looking for admisssion that all of the above are true.
I was looking for a promise that someday they'll fix it.
And would have accepted a "be happy with 3 useable PVE builds and 1 usable PVP build" if CD had covered the rest.
breaklance Aug 12th 2009 3:27PM
"Rogue damage is sufficient now"
blizz is smoking crack
"not seen as second-class dps"
what are you talking about vanilla? cause rogues were top dps untill fury wars got really geared and even then you guys were pretty much even. you "suffered" in naxx after the HaT bug fix but dominate anything you touch now and for the last couple of months.
It always amazes me how fotm classes are blind to their own superiority.
Deathgodryuk Aug 12th 2009 5:57PM
Because we SHOULD be at the top.
EZ Aug 12th 2009 5:57PM
pvp: if you get the opener on a rogue he's pretty much dead. if the rogues cooldowns are gone he's pretty much dead. If a rogue gets opener on you and/or has his cooldowns you're pretty much dead. Rogues aren't running around in PvE gear owning everything like TBC, and our survivability without resilience was gutted (which is fair). Pallies and DK's can run into groups of 3+ people and own everyone, now that's OP. Rogue pvp burst is in line with warlocks, mages, and hunters. People just get pissed because the rogue style can be annoying to go against if they get an opener on you, that's just style...not power. Getting stunned is annoying, but it's also the defining aspect of rogue pvp. They need to get an opener and control the opponent otherwise they get destroyed. If you think rogues are still OP in pvp you are delusional or you just hate them. A lot of people hate rogues.
pve: rogues bring nothing to the group except for dps. therefore our dps should be in top 3. I think mages (and maybe locks) should be buffed a tiny bit for this same reason. Overall, if you think rogues should be 5th-6th on damage meter and bring NO buffs to group you are either delusional or you hate rogues. A lot of people hate rogues.
Rogues are in a good place right now.
Precision Aug 12th 2009 6:32PM
@ EZ
Rogues hardly bring just DPS to a raid. We have plenty of debuffs we can use and more than enough CC for trash pulls. Expose Armor, wound poison, mind numbing poison, anesthetic for deraging, savage combat, TRICKS OF THE TRADE, kick, and so on. Oh how tanks love my tricks + fan of knives -> blade furry -> killing spree combo. It'll make any group stick to a tank like glue.
Rogues have so many utility skills to control a fight in the raids favor it's unbelievable. Not to mention more DPS than anyone else. I love the way my rogue is and the only thing I really really want for rogues is the ability to carry combo points with us.
breaklance Aug 12th 2009 11:36PM
"pve: rogues bring nothing to the group except for dps. therefore our dps should be in top 3. I think mages (and maybe locks) should be buffed a tiny bit for this same reason. Overall, if you think rogues should be 5th-6th on damage meter and bring NO buffs to group you are either delusional or you hate rogues. A lot of people hate rogues."
I think rogues who are fully geared in uld, and hard mode gear should be among the top dps. I think rogues who are coming out of naxx and are breaking even with myself(enh shaman and only for certain fights) and a feral who are both t8.5 and hardmode stuff is absurd. No other pure is close to you guys, there is no reason rogues should be miles ahead of other classes.
frankly for pvp with the number of cd's you guys do have its a rare occasion to catch you without them. even with 700 resil and "shamwall" i get stunlocked to death by rogues in pve gear.
I personally get sick and tired of people who are too blind or stubborn to admit their own advantages but will spout day and night about their inconveniences. As an enh shaman I'm down right op with my wolves up 1v1. I played a warrior in BC, and like every other war dominated with a resto druid in 2s. I also mt-d for a bt semi casual guild and I knew why I was the mt(well asides from being the gm). Was it fair: hell no. Calling rogues "fair" is a bigger joke than sentry totem.
Kitsunami Aug 13th 2009 3:18AM
Honestly, I agreed with all of that. But I feel one thing didn't get addressed that I think was really important.
When WotLK came around Blizzard did a good job of making everyone's specs viable for PvE or PvP whatever you wanted to do.
But Sub still lagged far behind mutilate and combat for PvE DPS. I think Blizzard's acknowledgment of this and potential plans to make other DPS talents passive to increase sub DPS was very important.
beergogglez Aug 13th 2009 9:36AM
@EZ
i agree totally with your first few sentences...watch a warrior get a charge of at a already occupied rogue then watch his health diminish within seconds...rogues are nothing with out a few good cds up...sure we can stunlock you...sure our poisons pss people off...make a rogue get to the 29 bracket and try killing someone with out any criplling poisons...with out your stuns or anything...the class just hits the dirt.rogues are fairly balanced class...people taht get bursted down within the cs/ks rotation need better gear..or a better healer in arena xD
Rochmoninoff Aug 12th 2009 3:32PM
Hey Break,
we're not blind.
we know we're fine.
we know other classes are NOT fine.
we see that blizz is working to fix them.
you don't see that?
jediking001 Aug 12th 2009 3:53PM
Listen Im not a Rogue I am a Shadow Priest, so, i dont kno how wrong ill be for saying this. Rogues for the most part are balanced. Good in both PvP and PvE. Rogues are wanted classes in both also. Rogues own and can stand up to most classes in the game. Rogues have a variety of moves and combinations (as a shadow priest i do not, our rotation is pretty simple). Your damage! forget about it. i see yall doing nice DPS. So i dont get why ya'll are complaining. help?
Chase Christian Aug 12th 2009 3:58PM
Who's complaining? I'm saying we're fine! I agree with you completely.
jediking001 Aug 12th 2009 4:05PM
Read what the 1st guy wrote. I love the "Blizz is smoking crack" "not seen as a second-class DPS" parts. So funny his responce. so what your not top DPS anymore? your # 2! thats awsome! im a S Priest we lack moves, combinations, and out DPS takes time to kick in! lol Rogues r amazingly balanced class.
Ger Aug 12th 2009 4:20PM
Please read it again and try to comprehend Jedi. He doesn't play a Rogue. He is another DPS class complaining that Rogues are superior in DPS.
Ger Aug 12th 2009 4:28PM
And I personally have a ton of respect for rogues, especially when they top DPS charts. They are far more vulnerable than other straight DPS classes due to being melee. They have the lowest armor of the melee DPSers. And they have to constantly reposition themselves on mobs and run to different mobs while ranged can just hang out in back and cast or shoot arrows. I challenge anyone who badmouths rogues to play one -they aren't a hard class to play but they are very hard to play well and top those dps charts while actually staying live.
scarab2501 Aug 12th 2009 4:16PM
Wow, no one whining NERF or anything yet? I'm surprised. So many thing us leather wearin shankers and hackers are OP'd but I suppose everyone says so when you get ganked but the 1337! Keep in mind we can be squishy and easily dropped, with the right techniques. This is my fav class so far! Ok I can't seem to kill a single pally in BG but I'm a noob, so what? It's a solid and very fun class. I would like poison to be a skill instead of a consumable however. It can get rather expensive to refill on poisons but I count myself lucky, I'm not a Hunter! One thing though, can we get a grappling hook kinda like Tenchu? That's complete the Ninja play style!
Kirklees Aug 12th 2009 4:19PM
I wasn't so much disapointed by the Q&A, but more underwhelmed. There wasn't really anything that Blizz told us that we didn't already know.
What I see a general lack of comments on, however, is the rogue's functional utility overall. We're great DPS, I love that! I love being up there in raids and having my function as Interrupt and Damage. But two of the things that made up part of being a rogue and stood out to me while leveling for a very long time (quests, money making, strategy, and eventually instances) were Lockpicking and CC. I know CC has, in many ways, fallen by the wayside of the new instance layouts and the zerg philosophy... but Boxes and Lockpicking just kinda went Poof. Yes, we still have people opening boxes in the major cities, and there is still a drop rate, but it's gone down considerably that I have seen. Even running old content to work on my Loremaster gives out way way less. It's almost like they decided they weren't necessary for rogues anymore after they took making your own poisions away.
It was one of our little gimicks... We were rogues, thieves, we'd sneak around and pick open boxes and doors and do good damage. Now we don't do that and we are DAMAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PVE and PVP. DAMAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It just feels to me like we've lost something, and I don't really see it being addressed until they say "We've taken the chests out of the instances in Outland because they were being exploited." or "There are no chests in Northrend."
Maybe it's just me. I dunno.
scarab2501 Aug 12th 2009 4:28PM
You make a great point and, until now, I haven't really noticed. I've found perhaps one Froststeel lockbox in all the questing and grinding I've done. And only had one or two requests to open one. I would like to have the lockpicking feature played up more too. And YES, where are the chests?! I like the pure damage class that we've become but can't we have other things to assist us and others in our party? Maybe have secret doors only Rogues can detect. Or invisible enemies only we can find? Bring back the attractiveness of the Rogue in a group or raid. Not just be whored out for damage. Not that I mind that :)
Deathgodryuk Aug 12th 2009 6:03PM
Scarab, if you macro to pickpocket every mob you attack out of stealth you'll have more lockboxes than you know what to do with.
greenthumbs Aug 12th 2009 4:51PM
Nice to see a commentary on a Q&A piece free of QQ. A good read Chase.
jerzz80 Aug 12th 2009 5:08PM
I f'n love Encrypted Text. It has to be the best column on this site. He tells it like it is. Period.
Alot of people have unique specific experiences they use to blanket an entire topic. This man tells the whole story.
Next week, Id like to hear some stuff on "newer" PVP / Battleground specs out there. Im seeing more FON spamming, some Killing Sprees being done. I think Combat could be more viable in PVP if it was a little more survivable.