Encrypted Text: The Rogue Q&A in review
Every Wednesday, Chase Christian of Encrypted Text invites you to enter the world of shadows, as we explore the secrets and mechanics of the Rogue class. This week, we talk about the Rogue Q & A recently released by Blizzard.Last week, Blizzard released the long-awaited (at least by me) Rogue Q&A series. Ghostcrawler and the rest of the community team answered many of our long-standing questions, and gave us some insight into where Rogues are headed as a class. You can read the full details of the Q&A that Eliah posted for us.
After reading the questions and answers, I breathed a sigh of relief. No hints or indications of any nerfs coming our way, and Blizzard actually acknowledged several longstanding flaws with the class. Not only that, but they actually provided possible solutions; I'll be taking them with a grain of salt. New Rogues are excited about our class' complexity and diversity, while experienced Rogues are proud that we are now respected as damage dealers instead of being seen as second-class DPS.
The highlights are after the cut.
"Vanish isn't working properly"
This sentence alone sealed the deal for me. A very straight answer from the development team, admitting that us shadow warriors haven't been making it up all along. And they're not giving us the same line about "it's server side so it will always be broken". GC actually gave a suggested fix that I would love to see put in place. It's something simple enough that even latency and spell resolution would be unable to interfere with Vanish keeping us in stealth for longer periods of time. The idea of "guaranteed" functionality from cooldowns is a topic I've harped on enough already, and I'm really excited to see the team at Blizzard look into providing Rogues with some reliability.
"Both abilities are largely where we want them"
While talking about Overkill and Mutilate, the two most-nerfed Rogue abilities in WotLK, GC confirms that the spells are relatively balanced and that our current PvP standard of Mutilate / Prep is here to stay. Our burst at the launch of WotLK was insane, and the toning down of our crazy out-of-stealth salvo came with the tradeoff of increased sustained damage via poison normalization. All in all, Mutilate has it pretty good in PvP right now, with Rogues seen in some of the most popular comps in all arena brackets. In addition, I find Mutilate to be refreshing to play in the new Isle of Conquest BG, where launching yourself over the wall via a Catapult allows you some sneaky assassination work.
"Rogue damage is sufficient now"
I agree completely. I was able to run a quick Trial of the Crusader (10 man) this week (and scored the sweet Acidmaw Treads!). My damage was at the top of the meters, and with clever use of Blade Flurry to clean off Snobolds from my allies and Cloak of Shadows to help me through some of the twin Jormungar debuffs, I was able to contribute nearly 100% of my time to slaying the Northrend Beasts.
Rogues have seen a lot of PvE buffs, especially in unforeseen ways, such as the new Feint and the oft-heralded Fan of Knives. I love the fact that my class is not immediately judged as inferior before I even get a chance to show my skill. The general WoW populace knows that a Rogue is capable of incredible damage and can minimize their incoming damage to ensure survival. That gets our foot in the door to impress even the most skeptical of critics.
"It's meant as a tool that's part of a toolkit, not an I-win button"
When talking about Cloak of Shadows, GC confirms what I had suspected: that CoS is 90% on purpose. It forces us to run out of things like Shock Blast (as mentioned) while still providing decent PvP utility (especially in the dispelling current debuffs portion). I will simply have to stop leaning on it as "preventing magic" and instead use it more as "possibly preventing magic", the same way that it's still dangerous to run up to a Bladestorming Warrior.
"A slightly more tanky rogue that can survive more damage"
This is something that I know many of my fellow Rogues have been asking to see for quite some time. I always felt that the idea of Feint is great: short duration damage reduction, incredibly potent, with a short cooldown. It encourages a very predictive playstyle, and forces the Rogue to take active steps to defending themselves. I believe that Ghostly Strike was a step in this direction, but 15% dodge is simply not enough to make it a real defensive CD. Perhaps if Cloak of Shadows simply reduced magical damage and debuff duration by 50%, but had a 30 second cooldown? I enjoy the idea of a very flexible Rogue who's cooldowns are more like presences or stances instead of short-lived OP ownage with long-term weakness once used.
"Ultimately, we settled on axes for rogues."
Raise your hand if you've already ground out the weapon skill to level 400 for Axes. I picked up a pair of the blue axes that you can buy from the Sons of Hodir at Revered reputation. They're not going to top any DPS charts, but they look so cool when I'm cutting up a group of mobs using Blade Flurry and Slice and Dice. Some of the BIS Combat weapons may even turn out to be axes, depending on what other items we find in the Trial of the Crusader's loot table.
"We could see making it a major feature"
GC is referring to "poison swapping" here, where a Rogue will switch weapons to apply a particular poison, and then swap back to their "real" poisons and weapons. While there is definitely no promise or even hint that this is being worked on, if it did make it to live, it would bring back memories of playing the Assassin class in Diablo II. The ability to switch weapons and poisons in a quick and simple way (and effectively 50% of your character) would really bring a lot of smoothness to what is now a very macro-driven class. I've got macros to swap to slow weapons for FoK and Killing Spree, weapons to swap so I can quickly apply Mind Numbing or Anesthetic Poison to a mob, and even more crazy macros. Having some of that built into the UI would be a godsend.
Conclusion:
Rogues are in a great place. Blizzard agrees. This is probably one of the few times that a class can really see eye-to-eye with the developers and not have any real outstanding issues to complain about. I'm very happy with the insight we received in the Q&A, and I am tickled pink about the incoming fix to Vanish (whatever it may be). Let's just hope that nothing breaks until we're done with Arthas!
Filed under: Rogue, Analysis / Opinion, Odds and ends, (Rogue) Encrypted Text
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Reader Comments (Page 2 of 2)
TJ Aug 12th 2009 5:30PM
Encrypted Text, Arcane Brilliance, and Pre-Whiny-Rossi TCAFW are the best columns on this site imo.
sizzle Aug 12th 2009 5:46PM
Encrypted Text is usually pretty good and the reason I make sure to visit wow.com on Wednesday. Thanks again Chase for the article.
thebl4ckd0g Aug 12th 2009 5:23PM
Yeah I would love to see some more blue quality lock boxes dropping and chests back in dungeons - but they should put a mechanic in that says if there is no rogue in the group, at least make the chests not locked.
I also wish they'd do a little more with Ravenholdt, but that was a resounding NO from the looks of things from Blizzard. I guess since they are spending more time fixing what the messed up with every other class they can't fix the unfinished since pre-BC content for Rogues that is still unfinished. It's cool. At least I can hold out hope for the 3rd/Last expansion. :)
Akhmatova Aug 12th 2009 6:07PM
The main thing that I would like to see Blizzard address is to move the game in the direction of intentionality. The best two games in the history of the world, Chess and Go, are the best games because they are entirely intentional. When you intend to do a thing, it happens, period. Now, if you intended the wrong thing, you lose, but that's what makes a thing a perfect game. Blizzard needs to make WoW sharper, more punishing of errors, and make high levels of skillful play be rewarded even more. I'm talking about, for example, a 2 second Cloak of Shadows that is 100%, for example -- so that if you are skillful, it works well for you, and if you aren't, well, try harder. Every class has things about it that could be tweaked to reward skillful play and punish weak play.
In a game like chess, the better player nearly always defeats weaker opposition. You are rewarded for excellence. In the current state of WoW, too often one finds oneself in situations where skill doesn't pay a very high dividend.
So, up with skill as the deciding factor in encounters, and down with, for example, gear deciding encounters, or, worse yet, rng.
Banzai Aug 13th 2009 4:32PM
I actually don't like the idea of a "more tanky rogue". I feel the class is the truest glass cannon in the game. Great damage, so long as you don't die. I don't think Rogues need that much more passive survivability, but some active survivability tools would be nice. In raids there's not that much use for the Rogues CC, since if you're that close to the mob you might as well nuke it to death anyway, And bosses can't be stunned (as they shouldn't), so interrupts and damage are pretty much what we have to offer. I kinda disagree with their answer for keeping CloS at 90%. I think they could just code it not to work against certain boss abilities, if they are afraid of Rogues just standing in the fray unharmed. And since it has a Cooldown it wouldn't be OP in PvP, since it has only a short duration. RNG shouldn't kill players, but rather the other players.
All in all, Rogues are probly the most balanced class in game. I still hope they'd do something for Sub, to make it more attractive to both PvP and PvE. But it is a fun class to play.
Lemons Aug 13th 2009 1:50AM
I liked the majority of the rogue Q&A, but one thing that I didn’t like was GC’s answer on the CloS issue. It seems like the only reason they're keeping it @ 90% is to ensure we have to run from shock blast. Wow...that's just awesome. Let us suffer in PvP just to ensure we don't have a get out of jail free card in the 2% of PvE encounters that include a magic based one-hit-kill aoe ability. I just love that reasoning.
And guess what blizz? Sometimes, when I'm feeling ballsy, I just sit in the shock blast, cloak, and take my chances...ya...put that in your pipe and smoke it. If you really want us to not cloak such things simply make those spells uncloakable. It's been done before...I've played enough PvP to know firsthand that there are some spells (Hammer of Wrath) that I can't cloak.
And the whole "Tool that is part of a toolkit" thing is just filler. I don't even know what that was supposed to mean. What other tools do I have to dispell dots? Oh that's right...there isn't any other tool...and when one dot slips through my only tool I am thoroughly fucked. No vanishing or stealthing until that dot is gone, and any opponent with half a brain is going to keep that dot rolling all the way until my next cloak (If I live that long).
swelt Aug 13th 2009 8:10AM
So is it just me that thinks Rogues got one of the worst deals in the expansion? I mean sure, they are powerful (sometimes have been clearly overpowered) in this phase of the game, but well designed?
- Changes to poison damage made a mockery of 3.0. The ideal pve weapons were the fastest possible weapons so you could proc more poisons. Even now that ppm poisons have been implemented, instant poison does worse dps than wound poison unless you invest 8 talent points in assassination. High dps and a free mortal strike won't get people complaining. Good design?
- Assassination has been a joke. Hunger for Blood went from a completely overpowered concept that never made it live, hastily reworked before lich king launch. Hastily reworked into the biggest pain in the ass mechanic for a dps rotation since TBC Rampage. The current iteration has been buffed in damage and utterly devoided of any complexity. Mutilate cycles were once (TBC Black Temple era with ashtongue trinket) one of the most fun, challenging and fulfilling. Now almost trivialised. Top DPS, sure. Good design?
- Subtlety has a huge identity crisis. After finding a place in TBC with shadowstep, somehow we've ended up with rogues back to assassination and combat for their pvp builds. Why? Shadowdance was a cool idea, badly implemented and then badly re-implemented. Attempts to push the sub tree into dagger synergy haven't worked, but hemo damage nerfs stop you being viable with non-daggers. HAT in pvp is pure random and obviously completely OP in certain pve situations. Good design?
- Combat. It was always dull and workman like. The best thing WOTLK did was make it sub-optimal compared to the more complex and demanding assassination cycles. Guess they forgot about that when they buffed combat to be on a par or over with assassination. Good design?
And don't even get me started on the latest craze, the master poisoner / improved fan of knives hybrid builds that are starting to appear in the arena. Because facerolling AR + FoK to provide an aoe interupt, mortal strike, snare and spell cast slow is skillz!
Instead, the majority of this Class Q&A could have been lifted from the equivalent post a year or two years ago.
dima Aug 13th 2009 11:39AM
Rogues seem fine to me - being a lock they irritate the hell out of me in pvp but they're meant to :)
it's the pallies that think they are rogues that really grind my gears ;)