"pve: rogues bring nothing to the group except for dps. therefore our dps should be in top 3. I think mages (and maybe locks) should be buffed a tiny bit for this same reason. Overall, if you think rogues should be 5th-6th on damage meter and bring NO buffs to group you are either delusional or you hate rogues. A lot of people hate rogues."

I think rogues who are fully geared in uld, and hard mode gear should be among the top dps. I think rogues who are coming out of naxx and are breaking even with myself(enh shaman and only for certain fights) and a feral who are both t8.5 and hardmode stuff is absurd. No other pure is close to you guys, there is no reason rogues should be miles ahead of other classes.

frankly for pvp with the number of cd's you guys do have its a rare occasion to catch you without them. even with 700 resil and "shamwall" i get stunlocked to death by rogues in pve gear.

I personally get sick and tired of people who are too blind or stubborn to admit their own advantages but will spout day and night about their inconveniences. As an enh shaman I'm down right op with my wolves up 1v1. I played a warrior in BC, and like every other war dominated with a resto druid in 2s. I also mt-d for a bt semi casual guild and I knew why I was the mt(well asides from being the gm). Was it fair: hell no. Calling rogues "fair" is a bigger joke than sentry totem.