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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsThe lost art of crowd control
by Mike Schramm 
Aug 12th 2009 at 5:00PM
The emblems changes are driving traffic back to the Heroics, and I love it -- 5-mans are my favorite thing to do in the game, and there's nothing more fun to me than sitting down with a group and trouncing a Heroic, reeling in all of the gold and loot we can carry. But there's something missing, still, even in these glory days of achievements and Stone Keeper's Shards and Emblems of Conquest. Yes, it's crowd control. Groups are still gung-ho on AoEing everything in their way, and Blizzard hasn't shown any indication, even in the design of the new instances, that crowd control is anything they want to keep around. I can't remember the last time I trapped something in a group on my Hunter, and I'm sure that the last time I did, some Death Knight broke it right open, Death Grip-ped it back into the group, and then AoE'd it down to nothing.Bornakk actually replies in the thread that we're just being nostalgic for nostalgia's sake, and that even when CC was required, people whined that they needed to have certain classes in their groups. But what class doesn't have CC these days? Even Shamans got their CC, just as it wasn't actually needed any more. Crowd control added some semi-serious strategy even to trash fights in instances, and while we originally heard that it would come back at some point, Blizzard certainly seems to be done with it.
But we can be patient. The new instances in 3.2 are light to completely empty on trash, so maybe they're waiting for Icecrown to really put our CC skills and coordination to the test. I play a Hunter at endgame currently, so I might be biased, but I do love 5-mans, and I do miss the extra coordination and teamwork that a big CC-required pull provided. Hopefully they can find a way to mix that back in without requiring certain specs or classes to be along for the ride.
Filed under: Hunter, Mage, Analysis / Opinion, Blizzard, Instances, Raiding
Reader Comments (Page 2 of 6)
Robert M Aug 12th 2009 5:17PM
“Leave it out of 5 mans, they take long enough as is.”
Karen Walker, please put down the vodka!
There is not a single 5 man in Wrath that can’t be completed in 40 min. The only 3 that potentially take that long are HoL, HoS, and Old Kingdom. Everything else is manageable in 30 min or less. UK can be completed in about 20. The portals and spawns in VH and CoS, respectively, are the only thing slowing you down there. If I have to reapply blessings in Nexus, I consider the group phail.
Taking too long really? Even for a casual player who hops on for an hour one evening and can walk away with 10 badges, or 1/6 of a piece of tier gear, that’s an excellent time investment.
gundamxzero Aug 12th 2009 5:21PM
Exactly 20-30 min is just as long as I like It. I didnt say they take forever, the only reason they take that amount of time is because you can steam roll or even if you arent so geared take it at a different pace. Adding CC to every fight can easily add 15 min or more to the whole dungeon.
Robert M Aug 12th 2009 5:35PM
It doesn’t have to be every fight, nor does every pull have to be so punishing that if you aggro an extra group, it’s a guaranteed wipe, but some CC every now and then would a welcome change. It doesn’t have to be Shattered Halls, but it doesn’t have to be UK either where the tank can aggro the entire entry hallway.
Too much CC could be a nightmare, but reminding us, on occasion, to use it wouldn’t be so terrible either.
gundamxzero Aug 12th 2009 5:42PM
I think it may be like it says above, you are most likely being nostalgic :)
thebitterfig Aug 12th 2009 6:50PM
there are a few handy places to use CC in northrend instances, at least short term CC. we were doing H-UK the other day, and the ret paladin threw repentance on one of the four vrykul right before the first boss. of course, i had a little laughed a little at the fact that we actually, well, CC'd something. however, there are a few little "why not cc this mob which will come running in" moments. in that sense, hex is probably one of the best CC out there now, since it doesn't break. there are also a few times when dropping frost traps (for the slow, not the freeze) is very handy in northrend.
i'd like to see more of this. little intermittent burst of "makes my life easier" CC, rather than "tank can't hold aggro on more than 3 or 4 mobs at once so we need to sheep one and trap another or wipe" CC.
Matt Aug 12th 2009 5:09PM
I hexed a dk in the flag room of WSG just as I died. He picked up the flag as a frog and started to hop away with it, as i lay helpless.
that is hardly a CC, more of a annoyance.
Chris A Aug 12th 2009 7:05PM
WTF really?
Eudeyrn Aug 12th 2009 9:15PM
I lol'd. Hex was almost a backhanded thing to give shaman - the least powerful CC in the game, given to us after CC was basically dead. The latest change to Hex added it to the list of spells that Maelstrom Weapon can make instant cast, but even then it's usefulness is almost nil.
Of course, I'd rather have something than nothing: I routinely turn stuff into a frog just for the hell of it.
Evelinda Aug 13th 2009 3:10AM
thats actually the most hilarious thing ever...
Elry Aug 13th 2009 8:43AM
Matt and Eudeyrn, don't be so quick to dismiss your Hexxing as useless. While it might not be the best in PvP, no CC is really that great in PvP as most PvPers will take the "PvP talents" to counteract them anyway. As a Pally, when I cast repentance on an enemy player it lasts around 4 seconds if I'm lucky, despite the tooltip saying it lasts "up to a minute". Repentance just gives a PvPing paladin another escape mechanism more than anything. The only PvP CCing that I still find really annoying and overpowered compared to all others are the stunlocks from rogues (and while I'm on the case of annoying PvP issues, can't Blizz limit the number of debuffs 1 player can place on another, I mean I get about 10 debuffs on me from 1 warlock or 1 rogue alone sometimes! :P )
But anyway, back to the case at hand, as for PvE CCing, when I'm tanking as a prot pally I prefer the Shaman's Hex to any other CC. It lasts a fair while, unlike in PvP the Hexxed mob can't run off and come back when it wears off, and doesn't break when I consecrate, so I can continue to AoE the trash down. The most powerful PvE CC in the game.
Jhaman Aug 12th 2009 5:09PM
The new Raid has a CC heavy encounter. The Faction Champions encounter where you fight 5 members of the opposing faction in raid format. They need to be cc'd and they're subject to diminishing returns as well so it requires heavy cc coordination.
Glaras Aug 12th 2009 5:30PM
You're CCing in the Faction Champs fight? What for?? We destroyed that fight, never CC'd even once.
Frodo34x Aug 12th 2009 11:31PM
He's talking about the Trial of the Crusader (i.e. the 10/25 man raid) Faction Champion fight, not the Trial of the Champion (i.e. the 5-man dungeon) mounted fight.
Andrew R. Aug 12th 2009 5:10PM
Blizzards new stance on heroics and raids:
AOE everything
"What's that? You mean you mean you can't get into the instance? Oh...well you see we're fixi-hey look a penguin!"
/runs away
Jagd Aug 12th 2009 9:12PM
We dont need CC anymore??? Blizzard clearly made this obvious that they did NOT want cc to be necessary when they brought in DK's. Now you can just send one of them in and it is 100x more effective than sheeping, sapping, trapping any number of mobs.
Dabua Aug 12th 2009 5:13PM
Few days ago I puged Azjol Nerub (hc) and the other four guys all were dressed in greens so I suggested I could shackle one of the undead mobs at the first boss mini event:
"shackle ??"
Of course the AoEd the shackle and we wiped :)
I totally agree, I also miss the CCs in 5s and iirc I also shackled thrash in karazhan regularly.
Dharmabhum Aug 12th 2009 5:18PM
i lolled irl :P
Robert M Aug 12th 2009 5:23PM
Even with 32K hp unbuffed, I always ask the priest to shackle or the druid to root the skirmisher. It just makes life easier.
I always get funny comments when I bring it up and get told I can eat all the damage, which is correct, but controlling those skirms can be a nightmare, and I just prefer the run be as smooth as possible.
I feel your pain!
jbodar Aug 12th 2009 7:27PM
I miss when people at least got some blues before running a moderate-difficulty Heroic, but hey that's just me. =) How lazy do you have to be to not even pick up some quest or rep blues?
Whyisretgimped Aug 12th 2009 5:15PM
Crowd control heroics back in BC were utterly miserable. You spent more time trying to find decent people to run with, than you would in the actual instance. Then when you finally put the group together, you make one tiny mistake and the whole 5 man is wiped, especially in Magister's. The game just isn't precise enough for that level of finely tuned play as even good players would wipe on trash if they lagged. Yeah the old heroics were a mess and and I'm glad these ones are far more runable. It's nice to be able to do three heroics in the same time it took to run half a heroic back in BC.
I'm not sure what kind of masochist would want to go back to that style of heroic. Clearly someone who needs to be fulfilled more in real life if they want that kind of torture from their video games. I'll take these heroics over those old ones any day of the week.