Patch 5.4 patch notes
Virtual Realms feature revealed
The Proving Grounds are coming
The latest patch 5.4 newsThe purpose of Achievements, and how it's changed over time
by Mike Schramm 
Aug 13th 2009 at 3:00PM
Moonglade has a good post up about the pros and cons of achievements. Nowadays, achievements are everywhere, but when they were introduced to the game a while ago, they were seen as a great way for Blizzard to integrate an idea that had really taken off on Xbox Live (and that an impending competing MMO, Warhammer Online, was implementing for themselves). They were mostly seen as a benefit for the solo player -- even if you hit level 80 and nabbed some awesome gear, there'd be some optional fun for you to have in the future.Since then, achievements have changed quite a bit -- I'd argue that they're actually more used in groups than in solo play, as raids check players for achievements when inviting them, and guilds use achievements to rate where their proficiency lies. There are certainly still lots of things for solo players to do (every holiday, achievements come to the forefront again), but titles and mounts have become the main goals there, not just optional points. As Moonglade says, instancing and checking up on what players have done seem to have become the main point of achievements. What was just a bragging competition on Xbox Live has transitioned to a real yardstick in terms of what a player focuses on in game and what they've done so far.
Is that bad? I don't think so -- Blizzard has done with achievements what they've done brilliantly with all of the other features of their games: borrow them, polish them, and then make them better. If you look through that old thread, most of the talk was about achievements pushing people to keep playing the game, and that happened, but I think one thing Blizzard has done is use achievements as a way to see what people have done so far as well: what instances have you run, what quests have you completed, what titles do you have already? There's lots more value to achievements than what any of us originally envisioned.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Odds and ends, Blizzard, Instances, Leveling, Achievements
Reader Comments (Page 4 of 5)
Donegan Aug 13th 2009 3:44PM
Personally, I really enjoy the achievement system. Even well before it was implemented I played to collect all the recipes for my tradeskills, for example, or collect as many mounts as possible. Do every quest in the zone, etc. So it was nice to have some in-game system of recognition for playing the game that way, rather than just trying to be uber or the first guild to clear X or Y.
Furthermore, as my friends and guildmates quit playing, I found myself having to rely on PUGs to get into raids. On the realm in which I play, the guilds seemed to fall into two extreme camps - on one hand, the ultra-serious guilds that were too hardcore for a working, family guy like me (even if I could get into one of them), and on the other, the twelve year old Anal [ability] linkers.
The achievement system allows me to manage to still enjoy WoW despite broken PvP, immature players, and all the other standard gripes. Otherwise, I think I'd have stopped playing long ago, probably around the time most of my guildies left.
Still working on getting Donegan The Insane. One of these days, I'll get around to finishing it.
Jenn Aug 13th 2009 4:02PM
I like the more casual holiday like achievements (one could argue there anything but casual and they would be right).
On the flip side, when I was looking for a serious raiding guild before patch 3.1 dropped, I was turned down numerous times despite gear and previous play experiences with the guilds I'd apped to because I didn't have a 3D Sartharion achievements. So regardless of the fact that I would be ready for the new content without needing numerous runs to get me geared, despite the fact that they had all played with me at any given time and knew I neither a) retarded or b) really retarded, they still would not accept me. At first, I thought perhaps I'd flubbed up on the applications, they can be quiet picky about this, but they outright told me that it was because I didn't have the Twilight Zone achievements.
I was lucky enough to find a guild that would "take a chance" on me despite this. I feel so fortunate. /sarcasm
impurezero Aug 13th 2009 3:53PM
I love achievements for my own reasons.
In my mind, they offer little additional challenges that I might not have otherwise thought to partake in. In other ways, they offer a nice little checklist to go along with my completionist nature.
Storytime: When I played WoW years ago, before achievements, I would run around places like Durotar and Mulgore with my Human, just to uncover the full map. And this was before I even had a mount because I wasn't level 40 yet! I had also done all the low level quests in all the starting zones, just so I could see the stories behind their questlines (now this was a pain in the ass because there was no Low Level Quest tracking. I just had to run around quest hubs, mousing over any NPCs I saw.)
So, when I decided to take up WoW again recently and saw that little things like that were now neatly organized for me, I was overjoyed. I was gonna get Loremaster anyway, but now I get a couple meaningless points when I do. :)
Still...it makes me wish I hadn't taken that long hiatus from the game. Had I not, I feel the odds were pretty good I might have gotten a world first Loremaster. ;)
Irshalthra Aug 13th 2009 3:53PM
Another idiot who snuck onto his mom and dad's computer.
Jon Do Aug 13th 2009 3:59PM
I see on wow-achievements.com that a Horde US player has taken over the top Achievement spot.
boatarific Aug 13th 2009 4:01PM
check out the first achievement system. lol pretty awesome.
http://biobreak.wordpress.com/2009/08/12/achievement-unlocked-474-posts/
h3lladvocate Aug 13th 2009 4:03PM
Achievements... you say their great, but it points out so many design flaws. Like how it took 52 emblems to get my "50 Emblems of Heroism" achievement. Honestly? You can't count how many freaking items i have? Not a very hard concept...
Jon Do Aug 13th 2009 4:11PM
Heh.
If you want to pose a real math challenge to Blizzard, try Loremaster.
If you think they have trouble counting to 50, just wait until they try to count to 685...
danawhitaker Aug 13th 2009 4:14PM
That's because it only counts the ones that drop from bosses, not the ones you got as extras from doing the dailies.
impurezero Aug 13th 2009 4:06PM
Oh, darn Nick. And to think...you were SO close to having the honor of being the first person to comment on a blog entry. And you even got beat out by someone who had actually read the post, too! And by a good minute according to the timestamps! (Which raises the question, "Just how long DOES it take you to type two words?")
Anyway, everyone go ahead and label your packages full of accolades and ship them off to Rugus, the true First Post Champion of the day. You deserve those trophies and awards, buddy. You'll recognize mine because it's a blue ribbon with a picture of Nick crying on it. Expect that to show up in the mail in the next 7-10 business days.
Better luck next time, Nick. Keep looking to the stars! One day you'll fulfill your goal of looking like an idiot at the top of a comment section instead of looking like an idiot one comment down from the top.
(Excuse me all...I need to go take an anti-sarcasm pill...obviously the last one has worn off.)
erikh Aug 13th 2009 4:06PM
ZOMG fail
Cheezey Aug 13th 2009 4:11PM
I've run across more problems with it than any upsides to it really. I've quit playing recently in some small way as a result of it, I found that the server I played on it was impossible to pug anything without having some form of achievement to get on Raid X,Y, or Z.
I don't really blame people for using it as a litmus test for prospective group mates, I mean it's there so its going to be used, what I really got frustrated with was the level to which it was used.
I've been in guilds, raided extensively in Vanilla, TBC & WOTLK, played all but 2 classes at max level, and would consider myself competent in any of the roles in a group, but none of that matters to some if you don't have Achievement X in the eyes of some.
So for a casual who would like to raid on the odd occasion, they are more likely to be a hinderance than a blessing.
As an an Alt-o-Holic I find the achievements system to feel somewhat less rewarding as well, where are the "account" achievements? Leveled X, Y, Z to 60/70/80 etc? Mehh it doesn't really matter I suppose, seeing as at the end of the day its still pointless nonsense that doesn't really mean anything! Just another time-sink to keep you sucked in.
Jon Do Aug 13th 2009 4:23PM
BINGO!
I feel strongly that achievement should be designed as more of an "account" level feature than just a single toon.
Candina@WH Aug 13th 2009 4:36PM
I have the achievements that popped for me as I completed content. I never sought them out, no have I ever 'compared' my achievements to someone else.
They are a frivilous waste of time. If someone wants to use them to check up on what I have 'accomplished', I don't care. Achievements don't effect how I play or what content I want to do.
I have the heroic northrend dungeon master on one toon, because I like to run heroics. I won't have it on any other of my 80s because, quite frankly, Occulus is so unfun, I won't run it again.
I'll never have the loremaster, explorer, whatever titles because getting them stikes me as tedious.
And achievements as a 'measuring' stick of a player are pretty pointless. My pally had never ran DTK. but I have run DTK and H DTK on 3 other toons. So, what? I FORGOT the fights on my 4th toon? Because he doesn't have the achievement?
Achievements = pointless.
Jafari Aug 13th 2009 4:45PM
I have actually quit a guild because they said "grats!" after every achievement. Every one.
true story
t0xic Aug 13th 2009 4:49PM
One of my alts was in a guild like that. Granted, it was a leveling guild. Everything is an achievement if it's your first time through I suppose =)
Dulock Aug 13th 2009 9:16PM
Yeah, how dare them for congratulating you on achieving something. You should probably try to take the game less seriously.
Jafari Aug 14th 2009 12:49PM
Yes, because when I got my first coin from an elder, it wasn't special until everyone congratulated me.
AmazonLily Aug 13th 2009 4:51PM
I love achievements that have nothing to do with instances or raids because I hate raiding. I usually group with 2 other friends, so having to deal with pricks from pugs aren't really an issue.
Since I dislike raiding, achievements give me something else to do: explore and actually pay attention to zones, go to old world instances I never really set foot in, work on fishing...
It could be worse. It could be Guild Wars title/achievements: Kill every monster in every zone on normal mode. Then do it again on hard mode. /shivers
Kerozene Aug 13th 2009 4:53PM
I used to raid in BC and original WOW before all the achievements were put in.
When I last came back to the game in WOTLK, I was sick of the big guild/raiding mentality and played solo. It disgusts me that so many poor players are rewarded simply for being in a crowd. I was sick of it, and I wasn't going to let blizzard assume I was ok with that ANYMORE. Sadly a byproduct is that many of my dungeon achievements (aside from ones I can easily solo or Duo) are empty.
If I felt like raiding, I'd be at the top. Not full of myself, Its just how I was back in the day. I give all my effort, I make sure my gear is the best it can be (Yes, I actually try to get good gear on my own instead of letting other people farm it for me! *gasp!*) , and I read up on things ahead of time. However, because I've solo'ed for so long, there's no doubt in my mind that I'd be judged for all the empty achievements in my dungeon section.
It does bother me that so much importance is put on dungeon achievements over other achievements ( I have over 4300 achievements with most of the pvp and dungeon ones empty. I do intend on working on PVP next. ) If only these bad players, who are led by the nose through all their raids, and told step-by-step on vent what to do (god forbid they figure it out on their own) knew the efforts a solo player goes through. Most of them probably will never know a thing about planning, strategy, or skill.
Oh well. *shrug* It's how I roll, and I deal with it. Just wish Blizzard would stop rewarding people for being able to stand around in a group while eating a "sammich". God forbid individual players get acknowledgement for real effort...