Why Hit is a "sexy stat"
This post on Gray Matter has some pretty insightful thoughts about the much-maligned Hit stat. We've posted quite a few times about Hit with the various classes, and yet it's still fairly hard to get a handle on -- most people know their class has a "hit cap" that they have to reach to keep any of their swings or shots from missing, but other than that, they haven't really tangled with the stat much the way they might have some of the more core stats for their class. But Grey Matter argues that "Hit is sexy" -- despite the fact that, unlike other stats, Hit is required just to make your class do the right thing (rather than doing it better), Graylo still likes the idea, and actually likes the balance that Hit requires. No matter what ilvl your gear, you still need a certain amount of Hit on it, and the balancing job of keeping your hit cap met versus providing other stats on your gear is what Gray seems to like about Hit. While other stats just go up and up, Hit is the great limiter -- having more of it frees up space on other gear for more pressing stats, but you still have to balance out the pieces you wear to try and meet the cap.To that extent, I agree. I do think that Hit is a relatively arbitrary stat (we know what it means in real life to be Stronger or have more Intelligence, but Hit is really just designed to keep game levels in line), but on the other hand, Gray's right -- because you need a certain amount of hit in your gear, it does become an interesting balancing game of "do I need this more powerful piece of gear, or this weaker piece of gear with some extra Hit on it?" It does a nice job of mixing things up as an endgame-balancing mechanic.
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Reader Comments (Page 2 of 5)
t0xic Aug 13th 2009 2:03PM
@melvv:
THANK YOU! You said what I didn't. I took issue with the same assertion. I failed at getting that point across =(
Again, thanks!
JS Aug 13th 2009 2:09PM
@ i not vewy smat
Again, nothing to do with my comment. Your example is basically the same as carrying a frost resist set... You taking different sets of gear is personal preference. not having "hit" on your gear is an in-game restriction on dps and tanks that healers dont have to worry about. I am all for having to bring different sets of gear to excel in your role. That is completely different than having to not wear a ilvl upgrade simply because there is a restriction in place.
Antonia Aug 13th 2009 2:43PM
I've said it in comments on this site many many times that old school raiders only really had to stack int to the sky and they were fine. The need for things like mp5 and defense came along with BC and made even more standard/common place in Wrath. Now people just stacking int or stamina are going to have a huge mana issue.
On the flip side though blizzards worried about people always landing in an "infinite mana situation" so they keep retooling and sometimes messing up the systems. But that's kinda where the problem lies. Back when they were working on trying to stop that situation from happening they said that shaman healers were pretty much how they wanted them and all the others were getting toyed with to keep about in line with that. Well now, from what i've been seeing from some of the people I know who heal as shaman, they're in an infinite mana situation, which will probably lead to more heartbreak for the other healing classes when blizzard decides they need to change the way it works for EVERYONE..
Really, Hit stays the same except for the fact that you need more to get to the cap with each expansion. It sucks to have it and I wish we didn't need it but it does keep things in a nice little package of normalcy where other stats get messed with consistently.
As for expertise, honestly I don't think it was needed or should really exist. I can see them rolling this into hit one day and increasing the amount of hit needed for melee to reach where they need to be with hit.
Avan Aug 13th 2009 2:56PM
Hit doesn't do anything for healers. While we don't have to be hitcapped, if we take gear with hit on it we're losing other vital stats, just like the rest of you. The only difference is that we don't need the +hit, unlike the rest of you.
Although if you're complaining about how healers don't use hit rating at all, would you rather force healers to have to start gearing for +hit just to have their heals land on you? Boy, that would be a helluva patch. Suddenly healers everywhere being useless because none of them have enough hit rating to land a heal on the main tank. All they would need is 105 rating to meet the 4% hit chance requirement to land a spell on a player who is at-level (typically 80).
Which way do you want it? Healers being hampered by having +hit or having healers missing heals on you and wiping the raid?
Snuzzle Aug 13th 2009 1:15PM
Not every class needs hit as much as some other though. Feral DPS druids, for example, like hit but don't really seek it per se... it'll be on our gear anyway, and thanks to talents like Primal Precision, all more hit does is smooth out the cycle.
I've got 116 hit rating and am usually top DPS in most raids. ~2.6k on trash in 10Naxx gear, ~3.5k on bosses. More if I pop Berserk+Swipe trash packs. :P
Unlike on my enhancement shaman, with whom I saw a directly proportional correlation between his DPS increasing and his hit rating increasing.
I don't really like hit. I think it's a necessary evil though, an additional hurdle we must jump through to keep us sinking more time into the game.
Shadowdasher Aug 13th 2009 3:34PM
Speaking as a Feral DPS we definetly need to seek Hit. I've noticed a considerable DPS difference when I'm at the cap and when I'm not. We dont always need to be at the hit cap (currently I'm rocking 249 hit) to be competitive on the DPS charts (rocking about 3.5k dps right now) but there is a significant increase/decrease when you at the cap or not. Pretty much if you're melee, or for that matter DPS, no matter what spec you are that Hit cap is your magical number.
marblz Aug 14th 2009 2:53AM
Point for point hit is less valuable than agi and str when it comes to feral dps, maybe even crit and haste, not 100% sure on the latter though.
When it comes down it it's really down to personal taste. If you can deal with constantly adjusting your rotation depending on misses and such power to you.
Personally, I go for the hitcap, I sit comfortably in the top 3 in my raids so squeezing out an extra possible 100 dps when I don't get a bad run of misses isn't something I'm worried about. Although, it's a lot easier when you can gear around having a draenie in your raid ;D
Snuzzle Aug 14th 2009 12:22PM
@Shadowdancer... basically what Marblz said. Hit is nice. But no, it is not something a cat needs to seek above DPS stats like agil, ap/str, and crit. As I equip my new gear, it's bound to have some hit on it (because rogues need heaps of hit) and then I'll get some hit. Point for point, agility and attack power (or str) are more valuable than hit in the Feral DPS model. The exact values depend on your current stats
According to Toskk, based on my current stats these are my values:
Str = 2.332
Agi = 2.5989
Crit Rating = 2.2307
Hit Rating = 1.9762
All hit does is smooth out your cycle. IE, you don't have to take an extra heartbeat to reapply that FB if it misses. But, it does NOT make a noticeable difference in your DPS if you know how to work with that. Since feral is all about priority not a rotation, one or two misses won't direly screw you.
It all boils down to personal preference --- which is not something you can say about other DPS classes. My enhance shaman went from less than 2k to 2.5k ds, purely from capping his hit. I've played with my cat's hit numbers, and when I am running hitcapped I actually *lose* DPS because of all the ap and crit I lose. A feral absolutely *needs* crit, because more crit means bonus CPs. More crit means more room for juicy FB crits. More hit means you're guaranteed that one CP. More crit means a closer guarantee at two.
Hawkawkari Aug 13th 2009 1:16PM
i hate it... along with expertice
i have to re-gem/enchant multiple pieces just to upgrade one piece of armour
first fox Aug 13th 2009 1:18PM
What is the hit cap for a two handed Death Knight?? (I've heard 9%) I'm still trying to figure this out. And then what do you actually need to strive for, e.g. what you would need in a raid with additional buffs.
Then, what is the hit cap for dual wield DK?
Thanks!!!!
h3lladvocate Aug 13th 2009 1:23PM
Hit cap for melee special is 8%. DW white hit cap is pretty much impossible to hit, as it is i believe 26%.
But on topic, hit is a very annoying stat. Every peice of gear seems to have it, and then it puts you way over cap, and is useless. Also makes creating stat weights for like wowhead annoying, as hit is very valuable, but then trinkets with like 100 hit get highly ranked, when they might not be (I'm looking at you Blood of the Old God)
weblizard Aug 13th 2009 1:35PM
To first fox,
The hitcap you are looking for is 8%. However; if you're a Draenei you only need 7%.
t0xic Aug 13th 2009 1:42PM
@h3lladvocate:
www.codeplex.com/Rawr
RAWR makes all of the hit issues go away. Use it and never worry about it again.
h3lladvocate Aug 13th 2009 2:47PM
Not a fan of rawr. In game pull 6k+ dps, it has me pegged at 5.3k max dps... How can I trust it's stat weights if it can't get my dps at least in the ballpark. Been using a DK sim. Seems pretty much right on, only thing is i have to manually enter stats and such, and no item upgrade thingy.
jealouspirate Aug 13th 2009 1:21PM
When I respecced my Shaman from Enhancement to Resto I can tell you that worrying about hit rating is not something that I missed.
emperor webrunnr Aug 13th 2009 1:21PM
Hit's an annoying stat because, due to buffs and whatnot, your cap can change, and the difference between hits for heroics and raids is in the hundreds.
Also, Hit *caps*. I think that hit should give SOME benefit past the cap, just so you don't have a situation where getting MORE hit is actually a BAD thing. Maybe if it increased damage by one per or increased crit or something, I don't know, but requiring an EXACT amount of hit that can CHANGE independently of yourself is just silly.
JS Aug 13th 2009 1:26PM
It does provide some *more* benefit. The hit cap refers to your yellow hit cap (it eliminates the chance of missing on a "special" spell attack). Every point above that improves your white hit (the amount of times an auto attack misses). It is a slight improvement, some classes benefit more than others.
Zachary Pruckowski Aug 13th 2009 1:30PM
JS - for non dual-wielding classes, your white hit cap is going to be the same as your yellow hit cap. And for casters there is no such distinction.
The only classes for whom hit is a soft cap are Enhancement Shaman, Rogues, Fury Warriors, and Dual-Wielding Frost DKs.
emperor webrunnr Aug 13th 2009 1:31PM
Ah, as a mage I didn't know that, but that just is it: as a mage it doesn't help at all.
nieboh Aug 13th 2009 2:02PM
Hit is a pretty annoying stat exactly for the reason you mention. It can change due to the makeup of your group. Being in a casual raiding guild I never know exactly who will be there on a given raid night. We rarely have an "optimal" group, but we make due with what we get. I feel I have to spec on the assumption that I will be responsible for my hit alone so I reach 17%.
I've considered having different gear sets for the different possible scenarios, but it quickly gets out of hand. If we have a Draenei, I can do with 1% less hit. Is the druid healing this time or going Boomkin (with the 3% extra hit debuff being applied). The hit required for non-bosses like trash pull is drastically lower than what is needed for the boss.
I started putting together different gear sets for different scenarios and almost had it worked out...then I got an upgrade. It's bad enough balancing hit for 1 gear set...but when working with 3 or 4 different combinations, it's nightmarish.