Patch 5.4 patch notes
Virtual Realms feature revealed
The Proving Grounds are coming
The latest patch 5.4 newsBreakfast Topic: What do you think about Onyxia's return?
by Lesley Smith 
Aug 14th 2009 at 8:00AM
And now she's back. I don't understand it either but finding out is certainly going to be exciting. Plus there's finally a 310% dragon mount that I actually want. So, constant readers, what do you think about this revelation? How do you think she will be brought back into the picture? Is it just something to keep us entertained until patch 3.3 or could it be part of the bigger picture? After all, this announcement has come just over a week before BlizzCon. It's gotta mean something, right?
Filed under: Blizzard, Breakfast Topics, Expansions, Raiding, Lore, Bosses, Wrath of the Lich King, Cataclysm
Reader Comments (Page 4 of 6)
Jason Aug 14th 2009 9:14AM
I like the idea of bringing back old world content. However blizzard said they would be introducing modern raid mechanics into the fight. I think that's a huge mistake.
People love this raid for what it is. And now blizzard is going to change it into something else. Granted we don't know what changes exactly but I think it's best not to mess with a good thing. Old world has a soul to it. Something BC and WOTLK lack. If anything I think blizzard needs to get back to basics. Back to the core of the game that is what made wow so successful.
So making ony viable again is a good thing. But altering the mechanics of it is not.
Maori Aug 14th 2009 9:24AM
The complexities of the fight at 60 wouldn't be there now. It used to be a huge aggro fight but tanks generate a lot more threat now in comparison to DPS than they used to. Healing use to be a little more intensive with healing rotations for mana but that, too, is no longer an issue. I'm sure we will all have to B-line for the walls when she deep-breaths still but as for the ground phase expect a few differences that make more sense now since there are a lot of new mechanics and abilities than there were when the cap was level 60.
Kylenne Aug 14th 2009 10:24AM
Hon, you do realize that in order to make this raid viable with 20 more levels and two expansions worth of class and a gear changes (not to mention up to 30 fewer people in the raid) they sort of inherently have to change the mechanics? I mean this really is super basic Earth logic. Characters at the current cap are stupidly more powerful than capped characters were back in the day. Far more specs are actually viable for raiding than back then. And we have an entirely new class that we didn't have back then.
Christ on a cracker, people. Basic Earth logic.
micgillam Aug 14th 2009 10:38AM
@Kylenne
Two classes, actually. Pally/Shaman were faction exclusive at the time. Though that particular point might be moot.
Cyrus Aug 14th 2009 11:19AM
"The complexities of the fight at 60 wouldn't be there now."
Interesting. You're right, but we don't know for sure, so it's something to wonder about. Aggro generation and mana regen for healers were bigger problems than they are today in all level 60 raid encounters (well, almost all), not just Onyxia, so maybe that stuff would fall by the wayside. On the other hand, Onyxia is a relatively simple fight. I mean, sure, it was epic and a challenge, but not as much of a challenge as many level 80 bosses, and simpler. Throughout the fight, DON'T STAND IN THE FIRE, and there are three phases. Phase one is a tank and spank, just stay out of the way of the tail. Phase two you also have to aoe down the adds. Phase three is phase one again with fear and a few adds. Compare that with Kel'Thuzad (a bunch of different kinds of adds, less obvious stuff to not stand in, gradual enrage, mind control) or Hodir (NPCs you want to keep alive, a bunch of different kind of buffs going around) or Thorim (arena and hallway groups, either of which is a raid encounter) or Malygos (lolwut) and Ony is much simpler.
So maybe they will make it more complicated, and if so they'd probably do it by re-creating the old tanking and healing challenges. What if her knockback dropped aggro? What if she cast a mana-burning debuff like Baron Geddon? What if she gains an enrage timer? This could get interesting.
TheMad Aug 14th 2009 11:31AM
One thing that really has to go is the imunity to fire. Last time I went there, it was with an Elemental Shaman and having a boss imune to 1/2 your spell is really strange.
Therinor Aug 14th 2009 9:16AM
>Has anyone speculated yet that her return could be to do with Deathwing
Actually, I did think about that when I read the post about the "new" Onyxia yesterday. After all, there still is a bit of speculation about Grim Batol and whether it will eventually be "used" in game, as an instance.
It would seem a bit weird since the focus seems to be on NR/IC, but then again, the fact that theyre reworking Onyxia and last years release of "Night Of The Dragon", which hints at Deathwing and is taking place there... who knows, maybe Blizz wants to actually do more stuff in the old areas again.
On the other hand, it might not have anything to do with Deathwing at all, just reviving a popular boss.
Yesterday, someone commented on the original post about the revamp, and mentioned that he decided very early on that he'd work towards fighting her. I felt the same... I started in 2006, and while leveling, Id read up a lot on lore, bosses, raids etc.
Onyxia fascinated me back then. Sure, there were other cool bosses back then, but the whole storyline around her, and the fact she is a huge dragon (one of the classic "monsters" in the fantasy-genre)... I dunno, I really wanted to see her one day.
I remember the day I DID see her the first time, turning around the corner to look into her room, seeing her resting there. I had to stop for a sec and just looked at that.
Then we moved in and I saw her actual size, which I thought was more impressive than what I saw in videos.
Anyway, it remains to be seen whether Blizz will "upgrade" other classic bosses. Onyxia seems to be an ol' favorite, maybe thats why she was picked first. Who knows, maybe some of the designers did a poll amongst themselves to decide on what boss to revive for the anniversary. Maybe its a one-shot thing, or we will see more of the classics return.
I happen to think she is one of the most classic old bosses, so to see her return with new strength, instead of being something that can be one- or two-manned IMO is a nice gesture.
Sorry for the wall of text =)
SjN Aug 14th 2009 9:21AM
Being from the days of "vanilla WoW" and doing the actual quest line to attune myself for the Onyxia encounter, I really feel sorry for those that came into the game after that had all been removed. Onyxia is by far the most epic of attunements and fights for that matter. Of all of the boss encounters that WoW throws at you, Onyxia still, for me, stand out in front as the "best of the best".
Bringing her back is a really good move on Blizz's part. A little piece of WoW died the day they removed the attunement. Yea, that part of the encounter may never return but at least we get to go play with a big nasty dragon again. And this time with a bit more attitude!
Thanks Blizz for giving us Ony back!
~Aur
Therinor Aug 14th 2009 9:29AM
Regarding "just revamping old content vs. giving us new content":
Well, please keep in mind I am no developer, I dont know how many people work on this etc, but I look at it this way:
Sure, a whole new instance/raid, new places to explore on a regular base would rock, but... what if they do stuff like the Onyxia-upgrade as a little extra to bridge the time until more content can be added? I imagine an upgraded boss easier to pull off than creating a whole new instance/raid-dungeon, so maybe its a choice between "adding a "small" upgrade by putting in a stronger Onyxia vs. nothing at all until the new place is done"?
Then again, I am not even sure it will take place in her lair. What if they put her into a new place?
Or maybe its just a little extra for old school fans to commemorate the 5th anniversary, not the foreshadowing of a tendency of mainly slightly upgraded old content?
I look at it this way: If Im not interested in killing her again or farming her for the mount, I ignore her, and wait for the new expansion (which I dont think will be delayed because of an upgrade like this). If they would say "OK here is the new expansion, and all we could come up with is a revamp of the same old bosses you have fought for years", I guess they have run out of ideas, but what I see here right now is just a patch with a popular boss coming back to fit the new lvl cap, and it might just be a one-shot thing because of the 5th anniversary, not the start of a "lets just boost the old stuff a bit" type wave.
Just my opinion though
Jon Aug 14th 2009 9:32AM
I think it is refreshing to see rarely visited content revamped, to be enjoyed again. Having started right before BC came out, I never got to do the level 60 raids until they were easy enough to do with a small group of 70's.
Don't like Blizz reworking old content? No one's forcing you to do these raids, and there is plenty of fresh content available for you to enjoy. Stop the QQ.
Poop Aug 14th 2009 9:39AM
I think that it is a GREAT idea for Blizzard to have done this and I hope that Blizzard considers doing this to ALL of the Old World and BC content at some point because while progress is needed there are some people who like old school WoW A LOT better than BC or WOTLK. Now all they need to do is bring back stuff like CC and force people to actually learn how to properly play again!
Meegaal Aug 14th 2009 10:01AM
I feel like this is somewhat of a step in the right direction. Bringing back the old raids for the people who miss the 40 mans and actually having them be worth doing. Old school WoW is the only WoW that was really worth playing. It required people to know what they're doing and be involved and there was a certain prestige to accomplishing certain feats. Now people can pug pretty much anything they want. I'd love to go see a rescaled BWL to see Wrath players try and handle Razorgore or Vael. I'd like to see how the majority of WoWs players now would handle real raids.
ashadowpriest Aug 14th 2009 10:49AM
@ Meegaal
Disagree with the requiring people to know what they're doing. At least, as far as Ony is concerned.
Maybe in the harder raids for sure (ex: AQ40), but 10 people could carry 30 in Ony fairly easily. A lot of what made raiding difficult in vanilla was gear requirements, especially for resistance gear -- not necessarily fight mechanics. Even as far as mechanics go, some fights were difficult because those types of things had never been seen before
Insofar as your comment about Razorgore or Vael, I think if pugs can handle Instructor Razuvious, Gluth, and Patchwerk, those two won't actually be difficult.
I'd like to see a redone C'thun, personally. With Mind Flays that tick for 5k/sec and an eyebeam that goes up 10k per jump. Mmm, stomach juices.
Jason Aug 14th 2009 9:44AM
I like the idea. I've never raided and I came in mid-bc era. So I'd like to see most of the older stuff. I think that blizzard should make instances auto level to your level, or an average of the group. If there is 5 level 54's going to Deadmines, the instance should automaically raise the difficulty to a level 54 instance. I guess the trouble with that is loot tables, but I'm sure there's a way to work that too.
Hoggersbud Aug 14th 2009 9:57AM
Well, arguments aside, Onxyia and the other high-end Raid Instances did become a dead-end part of the game when TBC came out. Blizzard doing something to reinvigorate interest in them is not a bad thing, it's a good thing to revive interest.
Of course, they may end up just having to do it again in the future, but oh well. And as instances go, Onyxia is a short one. Trash. Boss. Much simpler than re-tuning Molten Core, AQ, BWL or the like.
I suspect the same thing will be done with the World Dragons, with the one-boss instances in the burning crusade and others.
Lore-wise, well, I'm sure Blizzard could shoe-horn something together. It's not that hard to think of something.
styopa Aug 14th 2009 10:00AM
1) I think that Blizz will be watching the participation in this very, very closely, to give them an idea how interesting and worthwhile it would be for them to go back and scale the endgame raids (Molten Core, BWL, AQ - who does them anymore except @ 80 for achievements?). Optimally, after/during that process, they might think it worthwhile to develop the tech to 'flag' certain instanced content as scaling, so that when the next expansion comes out that raises the lvl cap to 90, everything so flagged would continue to scale with top-tier toons. Kind of like how skull bosses are always (you+3) levels.
2) For all the posters whinging because this doesn't make sense in lore, please stop. VERY LITTLE makes sense 'in lore' as WoW is a hash of absurdities, modern tropes, contradictions, and outright retcons. Want a reason for Ony to be alive? Uh "Uber baddy X managed to discover the secret of rezzing her after (obcure and meaningless arcane rationalization), and determined that she might be a powerful ally/distraction to the Horde/Alliance forces." There, solved your precious lore concerns in about 30-some words.
AnnieM Aug 14th 2009 10:00AM
I'm happy to see Onyxia back. I loved that fight back at 60, and I'll love seeing it buffed up for us level 80s. I've gone back to kill her a couple times for nostalgia's sake, but going in and slaughtering her with only 2 people really doesn't do her justice.
I just hope this is old content revamped *in addition* to new content, not old content revamped *instead* of new content.
Meegaal Aug 14th 2009 10:07AM
Removing attunements in general lowered the over all quality of raiders you see. Requiring the attunements for Onyxia, or MC, or BWL made it so if people really wanted to see this stuff they had to take the time to do the quest lines and earn the right to be there. There's a lot that Wrath or even BC only players never experienced because the level of play has changed so much since classic.
vmonte200 Aug 14th 2009 10:11AM
My question is how hard will the new ony be? They said tuned for 10-25 players, but tuned how far? Will she have as much HP and do as much dmg as some ulduar bosses, or will she be put back to say no drake sarth or archivon. Since they havn't said it would be awesome new tier level content and just something for fun and the gear will probably be epic but no BIS replacing high level ulduar/collesium gear. My guess is if you can do 10/25 archivon or no drake sarth this will be ony's difficulty.
Knyle2 Aug 14th 2009 10:36AM
I bet easy mode, but as soon as we see a loot table, the Item lvl will give us a good idea.
I bet, if you dont pull the eggs, say out of the lava splashed, are D capped, have at least 3.4k dps raid average, and 4 or 5 healers that aren't bad, then it will be a cake walk.
I wonder if I should have kept my ony cloak!