Drama Mamas: Elitists and exits
by Robin Torres 
Aug 14th 2009 at 2:00PM
This Drama Mama is in a bit of a pre-BlizzCon frenzy, what with preparations and announcements. But drama waits for no mama and we have two more questions to answer this week. First, we hear from a player who is frustrated with condescending guildies and seeks help in dealing with them. Next, a player who is paranoid about joining guilds after a bad exit wants to know a better way to leave.
But enough with the introductions! Let's get to the drama.
Pride and prejudice
Dearest Mamas of Da Drama: I've recently come back to WoW after taking a few months off. I came back to a new guild with most of the people I was friends with from my previous few years in-game and played a lot of classes to 20ish level to see what I really liked. The new guild was described as a 'Hard Core Raiding Guild' but a few of us were friends and are just there questing, leveling and PvPing.There's a palpable taste of 'only raiders are real players' from some of the officers, though the leaders tend to temper the rhetoric when it comes up. I've gotten to the point where I'm tanking Heroics with my DK, but I'm still feeling like a 2nd class citizen, even though I contribute on the forums and have answers quick at hand when people ask for advice in guild chat (I've now leveled 4 toons to 80 and have done all of the roles).
Do I just need to ignore the elitist jerks who think that because they dedicate every night to raiding and have uber gear that they're better than someone that knows a little bit about most parts of the game and is ready to help when asked? Signed, Frustrated with Raiders
Drama Mama Robin: Dear Frustrated, I have to deal with this attitude on a constant basis because The Spousal Unit is one of those elitist jerks. His definition of fun is very different from mine and he believes his is "better". Mmhmm. Sure, I know a lot about the game as a whole and am hip to the latest news, but I'm still a "bad" player because my gear isn't leet and I don't raid. He also has the attitude that I am one of the few who enjoy leveling, questing and playing the game casually. He says that most players only enjoy playing the endgame: never satisfied with their gear and running the same raids over and over and over. (I may have slanted my paraphrasing a bit.) There are a few things I've learned from these arguments:
- The elitists won't change. They can't be convinced. They think casual players are only rationalizing when we say we're having fun, so we have no credibility with them.
- Sticks and stones. Their words can only hurt us if we let them.
- They aren't apples. A few bad ones won't necessarily spoil the bunch. If you are having a good time with the rest of your guild (as I do in the raiding guild I belong to with The Spousal Unit), then it's those people who matter.
Drama Mama Lisa: Frustrated With Raiders, it's not the raiders you should be frustrated with – it's your choice of guilds. You said it yourself: this group is now a hardcore raiding guild, and you're not a hardcore raider. If you want to move into raiding, this may be a good guild home for you to grow into. However, if "growing into it" isn't what you have in mind, then you're simply in the wrong place. You need to look for a more compatible guild where you can meet and play with people who enjoy the game the way you do. Real friends will group up with you no matter where you tag yourself. But a guild home that offers nothing in the way of compatible groupmates, activities, support or conversation ... Wait, what are you there for again?
Dear Drama Mamas: When I first started playing WoW, I hooked up with this gang of guys that was running around in Tarren Mill. When I decided I wanted a more serious guild and left, though, the guild leader hit me with all these ugly whispers and other members essentially turned their backs on me. Now I'm paranoid about joining another guild. What if I don't like it and want to leave? Does that mean another round of this drama? Signed, No Hard Feelings
Drama Mama Lisa: While it could have been your timing or something you said, we suspect that the hard feelings arose over what you didn't say. Leaving a guild with no notice and without a word is a slap in the face, no matter how innocent your intentions. Even if you're unhappy with the guild, avoid burning bridges. Situations (and players' attitudes) change, and the guildmate you tussled with in guildchat every night in your 20s may be the one who invites you to the perfect raiding group once you're 80.
So be polite. The smart way to pull out is to speak with the GM (Guild Master, or Guild Leader) or an officer first. Be brief but honest ("I've decided to move to another guild where I'll be playing with a good friend. Take care and thanks for having me!"). If you're uncomfortable saying something in person, you can send an in-game note or private message on the guild forums first. Timing your departure for a time when fewer members will be online to take notice helps minimize awkwardness.
Don't be afraid to leave a guild that's not the right fit. It's not necessarily anyone's fault if things don't click. But do consider your next guild choice carefully, whether you're looking for a leveling guild or applying to a raiding guild.
Oh, and hey – the same general principles go for leaving groups, too. Dropping groups early will earn you the "That Guy" label faster than you can log out. If you really do need to leave (whether your playtime has been unavoidably interrupted or you simply can't stand the group) – again, don't burn any bridges. Inform the group that you're sorry but you have to leave. Brownie points if you offer to stay five minutes or until they find a replacement.
Whatever you do, don't be a spineless jellyfish and simply disconnect. That leaves the entire group wondering if you're going to log back in or not. They'll suspect the truth and be furious when they realize you've wasted their time, remembering you wrathfully as "That Guy Who Stranded Us." Have the guts to execute a straightforward departure, and even groups gone bad will think kindly of you next time around.
Drama Mama Robin: I want to mildly disagree with one (and only one) aspect of Drama Mama Lisa's advice: honesty is not necessarily the way to go in either exit situation. In almost all things, honesty is the best policy, but tact and white lies will help you keep relations friendly with your ex-guildies or groupmates. Telling the guild you are leaving that you "want a more serious guild" is insulting to them and they will take offense. Lisa's "playing with a good friend" excuse is a much better one. When leaving a terrible group experience, a "minor pet emergency" or "unexpected guest" excuse is much better than "I'll be back when you L2Play." And don't publicly badmouth the groups/guilds you leave. Classy is as classy does.
Remember, your mama wouldn't want to see your name on any drama. Play nice ... and when in doubt, ask the Drama Mamas at DramaMamas (at) WoW (dot) com.Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Virtual selves, Features, Drama Mamas
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 5)
Gessilea Aug 14th 2009 2:19PM
Another thing about the leaving the guild question: some people just get really worked up when anyone leaves their guild, regardless of how politely you do it. If you think you've been considerate that they still lose their *&%#, you should know that this isn't the way everyone is going to react. Unless you really, REALLY burn your bridges (say, going on your realm forum and posting embarrassing pictures of your GM or going to just enough raids to get the gear you need then going "later tools!" and quitting) most guilds expect that people will come and go from time to time. The exception here would be more serious raiding guilds, but a lot of those have try out periods where it's easy to step out if it's not a good fit.
Laynne Aug 14th 2009 2:30PM
Frustrated, I'm going to agree with Lisa on this one. You said that some of the officers have this elitist attitude. That's not a good sign that they'll change anytime soon. It's great being in a guild with your friends, but it's not the be all end all if you're not. Do they see this attitude too? Does it bother them? Is there anyone/anything about the guild you like? Your type of playstyle isn't your guild's focus, and it's always fun to play with like minded people. I used to be in a hardcore raiding guild shortly after I started playing wow, and was still leveling. I hit about level 50 when they were starting Kara. It sucked. I didn't talk to any of them, I didn't know what they were going on about in guild chat, it just wasn't fun. They build a bond because they spent so much time together raiding. Finally, after far too long, I quit. I joined a smaller casual guild, and it was a blast. Shortly after it disbanded, but I and several of my guildies joined a casual raiding guild. It's so much nicer when you're surrounded by likeminded people. Anyway, this has gone on far too long and I'm starting to ramble. I'm not trying to convince you one way or the other, but just think about whether it's worth being in a guild with people who think badly of you and frustrate you. I'm sure there are many other guilds who would be happy to have you as a member, and who love the sames activities as you.
Manatank Aug 14th 2009 3:56PM
That person is just lucky a raiding guild will let a baddy stay in their guild. Most guilds would be embarrassed by their presence. When you have a baddy in your guild just casually running around in PuGs it can provide potential quality recruits with a very negative impression of your guild.
Xiol Aug 14th 2009 10:48PM
@Manatank
Please, do yourself a favour and go outside.
Alchemistmerlin Aug 14th 2009 2:32PM
No, I'm sorry. Saying "minor pet emergency" in a bad PUG is not the way to go.
If the PUG is bad, if they're wasting the time, then you should say "This is not going as well as I'd like, sorry but I'm gonna leave". No one thinks you actually have a "pet emergency" when you ditch a group after a wipe, and everyone knows you're just being dishonest and, frankly, kind of cowardly.
Robin Torres Aug 14th 2009 2:43PM
And then the fingerpointing starts. Then the arguing and insults. Drama! I stand by my advice for drama avoidance.
And I hardly think it's cowardly to withhold pejorative comments. It's arrogant to assume that your opinion is supreme and that some of the blame does not fall on your shoulders.
When a woman asks a man if these jeans make her look fat, she's not asking for constructive criticism. She wants to feel better about herself before she faces the public. She can't lose X number of pounds before her outing, so telling her that diet and exercise will make them fit better will not only hurt her feelings, it won't help her immediately. So the guy should tell her she looks hot and then make regular gym dates with her in the future.
Alithoe Aug 14th 2009 2:44PM
This is true. Using any kind of pet emergency from "Dog is peeing on the carpet" to "My cat is on fire" will come across as being dishonest to strangers. Even if your emergency is real, find a vague, non-offensive reason to leave. Saying it's taking longer than you thought and you had some other activity to do afterwards is somewhere in that category.
You should also keep in mind that no matter what you say, some people will take offense when you leave. If they start sending nasty tells, just /ignore and go on with your life. 99.99% of the time it won't effect your PUGing future. Don't worry about it.
dracoskin Aug 14th 2009 2:52PM
@Robin Sorry but in my opinion the woman shouldn't have asked if the jeans make her look fat...she should just say, 'tell me i look nice. I want to feel pretty'. Asking do these jeans make me look fat and expecting compliments to make you feel better is just playing head games.
Terethall Aug 14th 2009 2:55PM
I have to agree. It's usually pretty obvious when someone is lying in a PuG. I tend to add people to my friends list when they make an IRL excuse to leave a PuG, and 90% of the time I see them back in Dal for ten minutes and then zoned into HoL or something.
If the group was fail to begin with, I don't hold it against people who want to bail. And trust me, I know a fail group/raid when I see it. But what I don't appreciate is lying. That's a good way to wind up on my ignore list.
Like Merlin said, if the tank or healer sucks or people are wasting time and you just want out of the group, just be honest and tell people you have to go, you're sorry it didn't work out, and that you'll stay for one more pull or attempt or until you can find a replacement.
It will alienate you a bit from the players in that group, no matter what. But honestly, if you're a PuG raider on your server, you don't really need to be best friends with people who suck anyway. There are people on my server who don't like me because I won't sit through a 2-hour wipefest in 25naxx, but the people who are wiping in naxx aren't the people I want to raid with. (And half the time, the other people in bad groups want to leave too, but are afraid to because of drama. Generally those people will be grateful that someone went ahead and "called it" for the rest of the group.)
Matt Aug 14th 2009 3:01PM
So.. ask your guild if they make you look fat. Or if you are starting to notice you look fatter in this guild maybe it's time that you found a thinner guild.
I hope this helps.
Lisa Poisso Aug 14th 2009 3:04PM
Ladies and gentlemen, please! ... We are after social SKILL here, not hack-and-slash diplomacy and DPSing your way through life like a mad Orc!
Of COURSE the excuse about a pet emergency is transparent -- it's meant to be. Manners and the art of successful, pleasant and skillful social intercourse is not about brutal honesty; it's about finesse. When you offer up a transparent "little white lie," you are letting it be known that you see the reality of the situation and choose to take action -- in a socially acceptable, non-offensive way. Your choice of words removes the personal insult and sting. You extricate yourself from a sticky situation with no loss of face to yourself or the others involved.
Social skill, my friends. It's not available at your class trainer -- but it is, indeed, something worth training if you'd like to move through life with class.
Alchemistmerlin Aug 14th 2009 3:12PM
Are you actually trying to tell me that BLATANTLY LYING is somehow less offensive than saying "Yeah, we're wiping a lot, I'm gonna go"?
I question the sort of values that would encourage dishonesty in favor of convenience.
As for the "Does this make me look fat?" Any woman asking that is being manipulative and dishonest, and isn't worth the time it would take to sort out that fight.
Matt Aug 14th 2009 3:16PM
I agree with Alchem,
I find the problem with this game and the internet in general is that it's filled with a bunch of liars, get rid of all the lies and the drama will magically disappear.
Honesty is the best policy. That phrase exists for a reason.
If someone is emotionally hurt that I want to leave a group because it's wasting time then they need to step away from the game for a while.
Robin Torres Aug 14th 2009 3:25PM
What Lisa said. :)
Lisa Poisso Aug 14th 2009 3:31PM
Your departure from a group or guild is based on your own feelings. This really IS a time when it's "all about you." An effective and polite departure reflects that and points to yourself, not the feelings or actions of others.
Alchemistmerlin Aug 14th 2009 3:42PM
"Social skill, my friends. It's not available at your class trainer -- but it is, indeed, something worth training if you'd like to move through life with class."
You know, I hadn't thought of it before but I guess it needs to be asked. You feel your way is "more polite", I feel it is derogatory, could you provide some sort of credentials that would explain to me why your opinion of what "Social skill" amounts to is somehow more valid?
We know what qualifies people to write the other articles. The Warlock writer plays a warlock, the PvP writer PvPs, and most of their opinions can be backed up with numbers.
This column, however, is most certainly an opinion column with no backing, what qualified your selection? Because, frankly, this is some bad advice you appear to be giving.
kkizzee Aug 14th 2009 3:53PM
@Robin
@Lisa
Don't you get that you are conversing with twenty something boys who have not yet become men and don't realize the value of the life lesson you are trying to impart?
Uh oh; I used brutal honesty instead of tact. I hope you "young men" can handle it without drama!
ObiChad Aug 14th 2009 3:55PM
@Matt - "I find the problem with this game and the internet in general is that it's filled with a bunch of liars, get rid of all the lies and the drama will magically disappear."
That's the problem? I'm gonna have to disagree and say the real problem is intolerant people who feel they are always right and belittle the opinion of others all while saying things they would not otherwise say due to being hidden by anonymity. Basically, G.I.F.T.
If you were at a party that where you weren't having a good time, do you announce to the group that the party sucks and you are going elsewhere? No. You make up an excuse, "I'm not feeling well all of a sudden" and make a graceful exit. It's called manners. If the host later asks you what you thought of the party, and appears to be asking for an honest opinion, that is the time to tell them what you thought. Same goes for WoW groups. If a group member later asks you what you thought of the group, that's the time for honesty.
Manatank Aug 14th 2009 4:03PM
"When a woman asks a man if these jeans make her look fat, she's not asking for constructive criticism. She wants to feel better about herself before she faces the public."
So you enjoy lies? Here's one for you: Robin, your articles are always worthwhile and insightful! You rock!
Hoggersbud Aug 14th 2009 4:05PM
Hmm, how did I know this would lead to an argument?
Maybe there's a lot of work that needs to be done on social skills.