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8-14-2009 @ 5:28AM
Whoa whoa, wait a second.Nerfing rogues and BUFFING paladins?
8-14-2009 @ 6:23AM
Seriously? The Rogue Q&A Just came out like a week ago. Blizz Dev's were saying, "Yeah, we like where rogues are right now" and now they're nerfing us? Wwwwhat?
8-14-2009 @ 6:37AM
As one of those silent (but majority) casual solo players I actually found it fun to play my Rogue - I do ok against single PVE, but in only leather (not buffed by all that raid gear) multiple mobs just get a little difficult but Fan of Knives actually made it enjoyable: I guess having fun in a game must be frowned upon. Frankly, if I'm not enjoying the experience, it's truly time to move on. Too bad they listened to the QQ of a few people who complained about others who are having fun. Great business strategy Bliss.
8-14-2009 @ 6:46AM
There is no buff, if you're a proly:"Judgements of the Just: The reduction in cooldown to Hammer of Justice provided by this talent has been reduced to 5/10 seconds instead of 10/20 seconds": No more hammering people every 20 secs. Now just every 30 secs."Touched by the Light: This talent now provides 20/40/60% of the paladin's strength": That basically kills the prolies. Now we have to stack str instead of stam. On the other hand, I wonder what will happen with the "protribution" spec.The threat buff from Righteous Fury is probably there to compensate for the Touched by the Light change.
8-14-2009 @ 6:47AM
For the record, those are nerfs to Prot pallies, not buffs.And the ret change should really only affect PvE trash for the most part - where ret dps is lower right now anyway. Unless people have a habit of grouping up close together in PvP... which doesn't make a lot of sense for several reasons.
8-14-2009 @ 6:58AM
Well, I always found a bit strange that a bunch of knives thrown around caused more damage than rains of fire, ice or lightning...
8-14-2009 @ 7:46AM
Both of the nerfs to Prot are to balance PVP issues (I hate it when they balance classes around PVP, but I'll save that QQing for elsewhere).Touched by the Light scaling with STR will prevent Prolys in PVP, as tank gear has STR on it, but Holy gear does not, so no more unkillable Prot-spec PVP healers. There is no PVE-related reason to nerfing the CD on HoJ so I can only assume they have done this to nerf the still-limited CC Prot Pallies can put out in PVP. Seems a bit pointless now that Proly's will no longer exist, as the only people playing a tank spec in PVP are flag carriers or sadomasochists.C'mon Blizz, I'm sick of being chain feared/sleeped, give pallies some CC or a closer (JoJ is not a closer -_-).The RF change is, like another commenter said, probably because we'll have more damage output from the TbtL change and won't need the extra 10% threat. In one sense, this is good, as it'll make soloing with Prots a lot easier.
8-14-2009 @ 8:07AM
I'm sorry, but what Prot pally has MORE strength than they do stam? Most of us are not getting more threat from the TbtL change. We're getting less. Less spell power. I'm in pretty decent gear and I have 1096 str (657 SP after the change) and 2667 stam (800 SP now). Now unless that changes significantly when I get Ulduar and higher gear... its a nerf.All three are nerfs. Less threat from RF, less threat from TbtL, and longer cooldown on our already silly long CC.
8-14-2009 @ 8:08AM
What's to complain about?Rogues are doing excellent single-target DPS, why should the also be kings of AOE? If your aim as a rogue is to excel both, your aim's off.
8-14-2009 @ 8:32AM
@sephirah, they're really shiny knives.@Xiol does soloing as prot need to be easier?
8-14-2009 @ 9:14AM
No, they're nerfing both. Prot paladins dont stack strength intentionally, they stack stam. I dont care if it was 100/200/300% of strength, this is a major nerf. ... also, why the small slap in the face with RF? 90% to 80%... seems like that was blizz saying "and take that for good measure".Do NOT confuse this with a buff.
8-14-2009 @ 9:20AM
@pam: "I'm sorry, but what Prot pally has MORE strength than they do stam?"Protibution. Beware of the new "I pwn your face and heal the team" paladins.
8-14-2009 @ 9:32AM
I don't think the Touched By The Light changes will end up being that large of a nerf, if any. Since twice as much strength gets converted to SP as stam does (or did), there, shouldn't be that much of a change to your overall SP. It will definitely have an effect on pvp, as there is no strength on holy gear, so you won't get the extra bonus to SP that prolys have been getting from the stam.Looking at my prot pally, in a mix of naxx gear mostly and a stam trinket, I have less then twice my strength in stamina. Maybe I am just horribly geared, but I will actually get a SP boost from this patch.
8-14-2009 @ 9:35AM
OK, with all this Nerf to Pallies things.... does it really matter? My main is a prot pally with a 2400+ gear score... im stacking unbuffed 2849 Stam and 1193 Str, so yes my SP is going down some... along with my threat and dmg... But any Prot Pally who has tanked beside another tank knows that we pull more threat then any other class who is equally geared (and some times when they have us outgeared), and most of the time do more dmg then any other tank (Along with some dps occasionally).Yes, this is a nerf to Prot Pallies, but anyone who is objective on this will aggree that when it comes to tanking we have been a bit OP lately, and this is just to even out the playing field for the other tanks out there(Yeah, I know... a objective paladin who isn't QQing about a nerf.... what is wrong with me?) =P
8-14-2009 @ 9:56AM
FoK has always been a ridiculous talent.Lets see no change to holy, nerfing prot (nerf to threat generation, nerf to spell power my stamina is like twice what my strength is), buffing ret just a little.
8-14-2009 @ 9:57AM
ok not talent, baseline ability. Still when you're raiding and the rogues do NOTHING but FoK something's wrong.
8-14-2009 @ 10:55AM
Prolys loose spellpower, but still have almost the same offensive utility (30 second cooldown on a 6 second stun with a glyphed 15 yard range and they still have the 30 second ranged snare/silence) they did before, plus the potential for perma-DP. If proly was realy as overpowered in 2s as a lot of folks liked to claim, then the major nerf to spell power might or might not spell the end of them. The idea of a prot-based healing build is probably a good one. However, getting a lot more spellpower than holy for bigger heals wasn't a good idea. The theoretical trade speed and healing utility for offensive utility and lower heals might still be worth it. I think people will need to see it played in order to decide if it really has become unplayable - that is, if the heals are too small to keep them and their partner alive - or if it has become a balanced alternative to low-offensive-utility holy builds.
8-14-2009 @ 11:54AM
This is a nerf to holy pallies. Currently they're the only tank class that is able to generate threat independant fo the amount of strength/agi they stack.This brings them in line with warriors, bears, and DK's on threat gen.
8-14-2009 @ 1:38PM
@pamIt seems like in the end, depending on gear, it may work out to be the same. My newish lvl 80 tank Pally runs around with about 900+ strength right now (mix of purples and blues), and 1800 Stam. 30% of 1800 = 540; 60% of 900 =.....540. So they may be trying to keep it equal(ish)
8-14-2009 @ 4:20PM
@Taladan, We're not talking about "Protribution." He asked about Prot pallies, meaning strictly PVE tanking pallies who devote most talent points to the Protection tree, not some hybrid PVP build.This is sort of a nerf. Considering how gear is itemized, a tanking pally DOES have less strength than stamina, which will result in reduced spell power. But then again, it might not be since we now get 60% SP from strength instead of 30% SP from stamina. So even though we have less strength, we get a higher percentile boost from that stat, so it might just balance out in the end.
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