Encrypted Text: Patch 3.2.2 and the Great FoK Nerf
by Chase Christian 
Aug 19th 2009 at 11:00AM
Every Wednesday, Chase Christian of Encrypted Text invites you to enter the world of shadows, as we explore the secrets and mechanics of the Rogue class. This week, we talk about the patch 3.2.2 notes and what Rogues can expect to see.Fan of Knives, how I loved thee. If you haven't read the patch notes yet, you can find them in Alex's writeup. Rogues actually received a few changes this time (a deviation from the norm), and all 3 are nerfs across the board. One is a fairly innocuous change to Honor Among Thieves, which has actually be functioning incorrectly for the past few months. The other two are sweeping nerfs to Fan of Knives: directly by reducing the damage done by 30%, and indirectly by removing the Interruption effect from Throwing Specialization.
While I am sure we will be feeling the loss on trash pulls in late-night Ulduar runs, the fact is that there's no trash in Trial of the Crusader anyway. Rogues do bring some pretty potent AoE to the table, but I believe that as long as our single target DPS remains intact, we'll still find ourselves with dedicated raid slots. The loss of FoK interruptions will really only be a hit on fights like Yogg-Saron hard mode, and other niche cases. Ghostcrawler even acknowledged the nerf, admitting that if a fight became too hard without Throwing Specialization and Fan of Knives' intricate synergy, they'd nerf it to accommodate.
AoE DPS is a perk, not a feature. I have felt like our AoE DPS has been insanely good, especially when used properly (two instant-damage poisons, two slow weapons). I'm honestly not surprised to see it being curtailed a little bit. We're still going to be potent when using FoK, but we'll have to wait until it's a true AoE situation, with 3-4 mobs that need to be taken out. Right now, FoK is so strong that there's not much pushing it all the time. After the patch, we'll have to actually make the decision of whether the AoE is worth using FoK, or whether or not to just continue single-target DPS.
I've been talking about the dominance (and sillyness) of the 'FoK spec', in which a Rogue specs into Throwing Specialization and rules the 5v5 arena by spamming FoK at every available opportunity. Between the FoK interrupts and the illegal interruption macro floating around, Rogues had become pretty powerful at locking down casters completely. The removal of Throwing Spec's interruption was necessary, though I will be sad to see it go. It was really a great ability that gave us a really unique niche in the PvE world, but I can agree there's no way to balance it in PvP.
The HaT change, on the other hand, was simply an adjustment to force the spell to work as intended. Limiting it to a single Combo Point per second makes its DPS far more reliable and easier to model, and as our party members' crit rate skyrockets with better and better gear, HaT is now incapable of exploding into new DPS territory overnight. It's a nerf to Subtlety PvE, though Blizzard has already expressed that they have no immediate interest in making Subtlety viable. As long as Mutilate and Combat both remain viable, I don't think that Sub is going to see any sweeping changes.
Ghostcrawler recently talked about Mages having two viable PvE specs after patch 3.2.2: fire and arcane. He mentions that frost is not going to be revamped any time soon. I look at this as writing on the wall, Rogues have two viable PvE specs (and pretty different ones at that), and so asking for a third is really reaching for the stars. I will be attending BlizzCon (and I'll be at the reader meetup) and I'll be sure to ask GC and the crew what their plans for Rogues are in the future.
All-in-all, I am okay with the changes we're seeing in 3.2.2. If I really, really want my trash DPS to scream, I have the option of swapping in the Fan of Knives glyph real quick. And if I really, really wanted to play Subtlety PvE, I'd have to accept that I was making poor PvE talent choices. Our bread and butter role, single target DPS, was completely untouched. We can let the Mages and Warlocks take care of Arthas' waves and waves of undead drones. We've got a higher calling, to stab our daggers and smash our maces so far into the Lich King's face that he cries for his mommy.
Are you a Rogue looking to up your game? Check back every Wednesday for the latest strategies in Encrypted Text! And for the raiding Rogue, get ready for Ulduar with Ready Check and our Ulduar guide for Rogues, parts 1, 2, 3, and 4. Heard about the Rogue Q&A? Get the highlights from Encrypted Text!Filed under: Rogue, Patches, (Rogue) Encrypted Text
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
Rich Aug 19th 2009 11:06AM
Good. The dmg from FoN was way out of line.
Tinwhisker Aug 19th 2009 11:20AM
And the English Language takes another sucker punch.
It was never the FoK damage that was a problem in PvP and in PvE it only concerned meter-monkey-mages. The loss of the interrupt is pretty brutal though and leaves a talent in the Combat tree completely gutted and worthless.
Nick S Aug 19th 2009 12:22PM
I disagree that FoK's damage was not a problem. Ever been in WG and seen Rogues with Tenacity who cast nothing but FoK because it does enough damage to kill people in two or three casts? Or played a 5v5 Arena against a FoK-spec Rogue?
The interrupt was overpowered, but the damage was also out of line. (Plus it applied AoE Wound and Crippling Poison, which was just... well, overpowered.)
Tinwhisker Aug 19th 2009 12:55PM
You can claim that for any AoE that's been boosted by WG tenacity.
As for the poison effects, you can argue that that may be OP (and it probably is in some cases) but the fact of the matter is that Blizzard didn't feel the need to touch that.
The argument then becomes, "why not remove the ability to proc poisons?" at which point FoK hits for nearly zero because the damage isn't from FoK itself but from the poisons. Everyone keeps saying that FoK does too much damage when they really don't understand how it works. That's 30% nerf isn't really going to do much to the damage FoK can do; when the dust settles it's going to be closer to 10% or maybe even less.
Paizn Aug 19th 2009 1:26PM
Yes FoK was waaaay over powered in 3s and 5s for pvp. especially against any teams with heelers that were, priests, pallys, or shamans. also casters would be completely shut down by a rogue with adrenaline rush and overkill and spaming FoK.... if you were all 3 or 5 fairly close together (as you usually were at the begining of a match) you could kill multiple people and the heelers could just sit there and try and use instant spells on everyone. also spreading wound to everyone was crazy, imagine a warrior that when bladestorming automatically put MS on everyone he touched. It deserved a nerf heh /rant end
Deathgodryuk Aug 19th 2009 1:37PM
Fan of Nachos?
Bullseyed Aug 19th 2009 3:58PM
No one cares about 5v5. The damage on fan of knives was gamebreaking for PvE. It is the reason that rogues are top damage for 85% of the fights in the game. Their damage was overpowered and is finally being brought into line.
The person who said to take poisons off fan of knives: you completely missed the point of this ability. The whole point is to be able to remove enrages off large groups of mobs at the same time by using the proper poison. Sarth 3D would have been impossible in the early weeks of WotLK without it.
We won't have to deal with rogues doing 30,000 dps on trash anymore either.
And on top of all the reasons for liking the nerf, rogues can suck it for bitching and moaning into that volley nerf back in Naxx. The fact that rogues had better AoE than hunters all this time was retarded. Hopefully fan gets another 30% nerf next patch to fall into line with lolvolley.
CrusaderStrike Aug 19th 2009 6:08PM
They should also nerf the sound effect of FoN. Almost as annoying as the train.
SneakyZM Aug 19th 2009 11:07AM
Ahh, the Nerf Bat. How I've missed you so. : \
Otome Aug 19th 2009 12:45PM
We saw the bat swinging our way and we hit Vanish, only for it to not work properly and, thus, we got hit in the face.
yokumgang Aug 19th 2009 11:07AM
FoKing nerfs...
Clbull Aug 19th 2009 1:30PM
Congrats, you beat me to it.
Sevin7x70 Aug 19th 2009 11:09AM
Thanks for the update, my troll is not happy but thanks to the arthus comment he is ok with this.
Sanc Aug 19th 2009 11:13AM
I'd be more willing to give up the 30% if they made the animation better. >_>
Captn Obvious Aug 19th 2009 11:13AM
"Illegal interruption macro"? what the?
Chase Christian Aug 19th 2009 11:18AM
It's a bug that people are exploiting in the arena, they will all be banned for it I assure you.
mcmikhail Aug 19th 2009 11:46AM
FoK you Chase Christian!
Nick S Aug 19th 2009 12:19PM
Unfortunately, dump macros are currently not bannable, since they work entirely within the macro system. If they do become bannable, that will be due to a specific statement on Blizzard's part, or to a change in the macro system.
musicjunkie300 Aug 19th 2009 11:17AM
I don't pvp but, what is the illegal interruption macro?
Tinwhisker Aug 19th 2009 11:22AM
Don't ask and don't use it.