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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsWoW Rookie: Sharding etiquette
by Lisa Poisso 
Aug 19th 2009 at 1:00PM
New around here? WoW Rookie points WoW's newest players to the basics of a good start in the World of Warcraft. Send us a note to suggest a WoW Rookie topic, and be sure to visit the WoW Rookie Guide for links to all our tips, tricks and how-to's.UPDATE: Most groups use the automatic Disenchant option available in the loot roll box as of Patch 3.3.
This week, we're going to help you understand a practice that varies wildly from group to group, server to server and even expansion to expansion. "In the past few months, I've run into a situation with people who are (or who I think are) new players who happen to be 80," reader Sarabande writes to WoW Rookie. "To them, the idea of DEing BoP items for shards is completely alien (and to at least one, he just rolled greed on everything 'just to see if he could get it')."
Should your group roll for unwanted or unneeded drops when an enchanter is on hand to disenchant them? What's accepted in one situation might be scorned in another. Because there's no single way to handle the situation, it's important for new players to be aware of the options. It's also important to understand the reasons why players feel so strongly one way or another about this issue. Because there's no single "correct" method, the savvy player respects the group consensus.
Disenchanting is the process of breaking down (yes, we mean "destroying") armor or weapons of uncommon (green), rare (blue) or epic (purple) quality into magical elements (crystals, shards, essences and dusts), which can then be used to enchant other gear. Also known as DEing and sharding, disenchanting is the primary means of "gathering" or "creating" materials for enchanting (an important point that explains why enchanters sometimes get touchy about their "rights" to loot drops for sharding.)
When a drop is not an upgrade ("need") for any given player, it's considered a "greed" roll. If there's an enchanter in the group, he or she may volunteer to DE the unneeded loot. The value of the enchanting component often outstrips the value of the original drop, either to a vendor or through the Auction House. This is especially true for unused BoP items, which always end up getting sold to a vendor.
At this point, we'd like to direct your attention to a recent Insider Trader column, Who keeps the shards?. Go on, click on over and read it, then come back. We'll wait right here.
Got a little better handle on the matter? Hang on, class, we have one more assigned reading for today: Are disenchanters getting robbed by rolls?
"Up until recently, all I had to do was say 'Do you want me to DE?' and it was understood and accepted that we would roll for shards at the end -- at least for those who did not get a BoP upgrade," writes Sarabande. "But lately, just asking that is not sufficient."
The WoW Rookie solution: Speak up and lock down a looting procedure before your group gets under way. "How are we handling shards, guys? Can anyone here DE?" keeps it above-board, friendly and clear.
Points to consider:
- Is everyone in the group willing to let the enchanter keep any loot that's not Needed?
- If you have an enchanter willing to shard drops for randoming, will you roll and distribute shards at the end of the run or after every drop?
- Will you be sharding all un-Needed drops or only BoPs?
- What if someone leaves early?
- Is there an enchanter in the group who still need mats for leveling or buying high-end Enchanting recipes (some require shards for purchase)?
- If your group decides to shard and distribute, press Pass (the "X" at the top right-hand corner of the loot roll box) on any drops you're not rolling Need for.
- Don't be a jerk about "outing" enchanters who prefer to take their chances with a Greed roll and DE their own wins afterwards. They've undoubtedly lived through their share of DEing controversies. Put the Armory down, boy, and give them their peace.
- If your group has decided to distribute shards at the end of a run, don't forget to stick around!
WoW Rookie walks you through all sort of new-player concerns, from game lingo for the beginner to joining your first guild as a mid-level player and on to what to do when you finally hit level 80. Visit the WoW Rookie Guide for links to all our tips, tricks and how-to's.Filed under: Enchanting, Items, Tips, WoW Social Conventions, Features, WoW Rookie, Making money
Reader Comments (Page 2 of 4)
Ahoni Aug 19th 2009 1:23PM
On my server we usually ask when looting the first boss. Is there an enchanter DEing for the group? If not, then everyone Need if you Need and Greed for vendor.
"Is everyone in the group willing to let the enchanter keep any loot that's not Needed?"
I still find this an absurd concept. The only way this would happen is if the enchanter is offering free enchants to anyone he groups with.
Bullseyed Aug 19th 2009 3:45PM
I'll remind the next skinner I see that he owes me free leg enchant kits.
Pyrostriker Aug 19th 2009 1:24PM
Honestly, i think Enchanters should be allowed to keep all the shards. Miners get to keep everything that they mine, people with herbalism get to keep all the herbs....why should enchanters be screwed out of things they need to level their profession?
The typical argument is "well we could just greed and vendor it". Fine, go for it. But i want to greed roll on all the herbs and ore+gems that those people get. The group as a whole would not have gotten gear drops without the group...same with miners, they wouldnt have gotten that ore.
It just makes sense to either make everyone greed roll for everything...or let enchanters keep their shards.
LandMineHare Aug 19th 2009 1:36PM
The counter argument I get to this, goes like "BUT YOU NEED US TO GET THE SHARDS SO YOU HAVE TO SHARE THEM WITH US, WE CAN FARM HERBS/ORE/LEATHER ANYWHERE LOL". Which is true. Blizzard screwed enchanters by making their profession so hard to farm for, especially when the resulting materials are not soulbound and tend to sell for a pretty penny on the AH.
A decent counter argument would be "Well, you can go pick up herbs or mine ore or farm leather out in the regular world whenever you want, so in this dungeon you should have no problem sharing your profession's spoils with the group."
Kithraya Aug 19th 2009 1:43PM
The difference is that without the miner there, you couldn't even pick up the ore. But without the enchanter there, everyone can still greed for vendoring. Just giving all unneeded drops to the enchanter is stupid. I've got as much right to vendor it as they do to DE it. If you choose to DE anything you win a greed roll on, that's your business. But I can pick up the loot just as easily with or without you, and therefore you get no special treatment.
Exiton Aug 19th 2009 2:01PM
Kithraya is right. The big problem is the fact that items are accessible with or without and enchanter. If the enchanter could DE the corpse of the boss to get a shard instead than this would be a non issue. The fact that the Enchanter is taking money out of the hands of the rest of the group if they are present is what annoys players. You can see situations arrise in some groups if the enchanter was allowed to keep all non need items. People would stop inviting them into groups so that they can at least get some money selling to vendors. Im not saying it's right or wrong to do this but it would happen.
As for giving others my herbs if i gather in an instance, if someone wants them sure ill give them away, the ammount of herbs i get from an instance run is insignifican compared to my normal farming. Doing an instance slows my herbing down, i get barely any alchemy ingredent for my time in there. I could flush all the herbs i have ever gotten in an instance down the drain and it wouldn't really matter. Enchanters can't say the same thing. Not really sure if thats and argument for or against them keeping all the ingredients but it's still true.
Ger Aug 19th 2009 2:13PM
I REALLY like the idea that the enchanter automatically gets a shard regardless. He can roll on the Abyss and get that instead, but otherwise he is guaranteed a shard and everyone else rolls for extra. That seems very fair.
Obviously, in places like regular or Heroic ToC and Raids, he would automatically get an Abyss and everyone else rolls on the extras.
micgillam Aug 19th 2009 2:17PM
Would you consider a buyout option?
I mean, for a 5-man, if it's a BoP with a vendor price of 12g, would you consider either a) letting the enchanter pay 3g to each of the 4 other party members or b) paying the high-roller 12g for the item? With option a) everyone else is 25% of a winner, with option b) the winner is still getting the same amount of coin as they would anyway, but the enchanter could theoretically pay sub-AH price for a mat.
t0xic Aug 19th 2009 2:20PM
@Ger:
Why should an enchanter get an automatic shard? That would be like the tank saying 'I'm the tank, and I'll be taking the frozen orb.' Any loot resulting in a 5-man run is group property, and should be split fairly. Automatically receiving a shard for "being in the group" seems like BS to me (unless I'm reading this wrong).
Ger Aug 19th 2009 2:50PM
An enchanter getting an automatic shard is nothing like a tank getting the frozen orb.
No one would get shards if the enchanter weren't there. Sure they would all get a few gold for selling the item but shards are much harder to come by. Then you have some people that argue that enchanters should get all the shards since it is for their profession... that isn't fair either because everyone needs shards to get their gear enchanted.
I feel kinda crappy if the enchanter DE's all of the BoPs in the run then gets the lowest roll and gets nothing for his effort. Sure, it was not a lot of effort, but technically he could say I don't feel like DE'ing so everyone just greed and vendor it. So whether it is a guild run or a pug, I would roll and then if I got a shard and the DE'er didn't then I would tell him to keep mine.
On the other hand, I have friends in the game of every profession so I generally do not have to pay for enchants or potions or gems as long as I provide the mats. I guess that does not apply to everyone.
kworry Aug 19th 2009 4:37PM
There is a bit of a double standard.
I've only heard a couple arguments that I felt made sense as to why an enchanter would DE for a group. Primarily that the enchanter wouldn't have had access to that loot to DE in the first place without the help of those running with them. However, Blizz changed it so other professions could "skin" mobs (engineers can engineer, miners can mine, etc). I'm not sure why enchanters are still expected to DE for a group, while there has never been a group roll for the herbs from Freya's area, and one engineer always walks away with at least 100g worth of mats (on my server) from Flame Leviathan.
I think it's just a precedent from which it's tough to move away.
Timothy Burgher Aug 25th 2009 10:55AM
I start by saying I can DE and I'll greed everything, while everyone else needs if they need or passes it. We don't have too many arguments over mainset/offset and if we do the new loot system helps. When I finish a dungeon I don't say anything about the shards. If no one brings it up I keep them and/or throw them in the guild bank. I know it's kind of sneaky. If anyone says anything I give em up and we roll on them.
t0xic Aug 19th 2009 1:59PM
I've had dungeon runs like this. We would agree to let the enchanter DE the loot and roll at the end. Only the DE rolls never happen. They hearth out.
I always assumed it was an honest mistake. I only hope you're the exception, and not the rule.
yhtomitn64 Aug 19th 2009 2:05PM
I think it's the exception. If anyone says something, I'll give em up but most people don't say anything.
Bullseyed Aug 19th 2009 3:42PM
It's the rule. Thats what I do, even in guild runs. If no one asks about the shards, I keep them. They are my gathering profession mats. For PUGs, I'll often say "I can DE things no one needs" and I specifically never say "to roll on at the end". I don't demand their leather when they skin the mobs we kill, nor their ore when they tap nodes in General Vezax's room, nor their engineering mats when we kill mechanical units. If I don't like the PUGs, even if they want to roll on them at the end, I'll point out that I never said we would be rolling on them, just that I could disenchant them.
My profession, my stuff.
airman_dopey Aug 19th 2009 1:30PM
I just recently leveled enchanting on my new main toon (I've had it since release on other toons) and I tell everyone right at the start: "I'm a D/E, and if anyone needs any of their items that they won D/E, I'll do them all at the end." Doing it that way, everyone can get even the greens D/E (which to be honest, those dusts are rather valuable themselves), and it doesn't slow the group down at all. If I'm trying to squeeze in multiple runs, the time saved by everyone passing, I D/E, we roll, I trade, etc. ends up being rather significant.
Susan Aug 19th 2009 1:30PM
When we run heroics and raids, if an item isn't needed by anyone, the enchanter in the group gets it by default to DE. Then all mats are placed in the guild bank, and all the guild members who participate regularly are given free enchants. We haven't had anyone complain yet.
Ahoni Aug 19th 2009 2:28PM
Guild runs have different rules than pugs. For a guild run, I agree with this method. If you have even one non-guild member in the run, you can't just steal like that.
Fierna Aug 19th 2009 1:31PM
I have never understood enchanters who thought they should receive every single shard. Seems unreasonable.
That beings said I'm a quiet enchanter in PUGs who just greeds with everyone else and disenchants after we disband. If asked politely I might de someone's drops (usually after people look at my gear and see ring enchants) but it's not something I offer.
LandMineHare Aug 19th 2009 1:39PM
It is far from greedy. Fellow groupmates could have taken the time to level up enchanting and DE'd stuff if they want the shards that badly. The fact that they think they have a right to profit from someone else's profession: THAT is greed.
The fact is, enchanters need those shards and crystals to level their skills to purchase the enchants they want to buy with their mats. Screwing an enchanter out of the means to obtain those enchants, well, means that is one less person who can perform the enchant for them.