Dual specs and loot priority
by Allison Robert 
Aug 24th 2009 at 2:00PM
Like lots of other players, I found myself running the regular version of Trial of the Champion endlessly in pursuit of trinket drops when patch 3.2 hit, and it wasn't uncommon for groups to spend some time beforehand figuring out who was going to roll on what. With so many players now dual-specced into different roles and volunteering to come to 5-mans on an offspec just to get things moving, determining who had more priority on an item drop usable by multiple classes got a bit tetchy at times. I saw some ugly fights break out, and never more so than when a DPS player who respecced to heal for the sake of the group was told not to bid on the Abyssal Rune or Banner of Victory. Losing a roll on something you need to an off- or secondary-spec sucks, but being unable to roll on gear that benefits your main spec just because you respecced to get the group going is equally agonizing.A PuG I joined that was farming the instance in pursuit of trinkets had a discussion on this when -- through some act of a benevolent deity -- the Black Heart dropped 3 runs in a row. For all three tanks present, it was a giant relief; we had a warrior tanking for us, but our paladin has respecced DPS and I'd respecced Resto. Both the pally and I had unhappily agreed before the run not to roll on the tanking trinket if it dropped because that would have been a rotten deal for our warrior, but imagine the pally's agony when the damn thing dropped a second time and I won the roll. If it hadn't dropped a third time, he said to me later privately, this would have been his 14th group losing the trinket, either because he wasn't tanking and felt guilty about rolling, or he was tanking and someone won it for one of their two specs. I was on my 37th TotC run by that point without seeing any trinkets drop at all, and was starting to think that their existence was an elaborate prank of Wowhead's. Which of us had the more frustrating experience is up to you, although whenever I lose a roll, I think about this and tell myself -- it could always be a lot worse.
How do you determine loot priority in the age of dual specs?
Filed under: Items, Analysis / Opinion, Instances, Classes
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 7)
Tim Aug 24th 2009 2:07PM
For pugs, unless something else was agreed upon beforehand, current spec, then offspec, then anyone who might conceivably use it eventually.
In a guild, you all know each others main spec, and main spec takes priority there too, then it goes to offspecs.
as a pally, i take other armor types if it's an upgrade, but only if the classes appropriate for that drop don't want it.
Chris A Aug 24th 2009 3:12PM
Ya I'm not a fan of what's the "current" spec. What if you are a shadow priest main spec and are asked to heal then a damage piece drops? Then you can't roll on it? That will create less healers. I say just ask before rolling, that always works.
Talwynn Aug 24th 2009 3:14PM
Personally, if it's a PUG for a Normal/Heroic 5man, I'll roll on gear regardless of my spec if it is better than what I have. Nice thing about 5mans is they can be be run at least once a day, so getting the gear you want won't take as long as gear from a raid (since you can only run those once a week). So group members should run it again if they lost a roll to someone else.. in regards to ToC, it's a 10minute run. There's no reason to get all pissy if you get outrolled by an offspec.
For example, my main is a Shammy. I prefer playing I'm enhancement, but when I pug, I get asked to heal more often than I would like too. If a dps piece drops during the run and it's better than what I have, I will roll on it, regardless if i'm there as enhancement or not. If the group ain't happy with that, they can find another healer. I'm only there to heal you cause I'm nice enough not to say no when asked to heal.
In raids, if I'm there to heal but don't need any healing gear, but need dps gear, I'll state it at the beginning of the raid.. if the RL is not ok with that, I'll leave.
Chris A Aug 24th 2009 3:15PM
Ya I'm not a fan of what's the "current" spec. What if you are a shadow priest main spec and are asked to heal then a damage piece drops? Then you can't roll on it? That will create less healers. I say just ask before rolling, that always works.
Tim Aug 24th 2009 3:52PM
this is the important part: "unless something else was agreed upon beforehand"
I join pugs as DPS because i've been working on my ret set. somteimes we can't find a tank and i switch to prot. I just say when i switch to prot that i still want to roll on dps pieces because there's nothing for me in pugs that's an upgrade for my tanking set. if they have a problem with that (which they never do) then they can find another tank/dps and i can find a different group.
Talk to your group and figure things out beforehand. that way, there will be no confusion. for every rule, there are a million exceptions.
Robert M Aug 24th 2009 4:14PM
@Talwynn,
What you do is completely acceptable as long as you tell the group you intend to do so. Most people have little issue with it as long as you are honest going in. If you are not open and honest to the fact that you intend to roll on everything to your hearts content, you sir are a NINJA, no matter how you spin in.
Wipeman Aug 24th 2009 4:27PM
I find this way to be the most fair one: First main speccs who use the main spec atm, main speccs but people use off specc atm, off specc being used atm, off spec not used atm.
Joey Aug 24th 2009 5:25PM
@Talwynn
I feel for you. As someone who primarily played a Druid, Priest and a Shaman I'd often find myself getting stuck healing. As healing was my current role I'd then be pigeonholed into rolling on more healing gear (which is exactly what I didn't want). Subsequently I've got a parked BC era Enhancement shammy in full resto tier. :-/
I've since learned that if you don't like healing all the time, you've just got to avoid classes that are capable of doing it some of the time. It's a shame because I really love my shadow priest but these days I play my DK most because I pug a lot and there's not as much drama regarding the gear or class roles.
Kadamon Aug 24th 2009 6:37PM
Whenever I PuG and they need DPS, I tell the group that I am a healer first, DPS second and that if the healing trinket drops, I will be rolling against the current healer. It usually comes down to the fact that I've ponied up the 1k gold for dual spec and the other person hasn't so I am greatly benefitting the group. Thankfully though, I end up just being the healer anyway.
As much as it reads like it, I really am not trying to be smug...and I still haven't gotten the healing trinket to drop. :(
Sleutel Aug 24th 2009 7:20PM
Current spec is the DEFAULT assumption for PUGs. That doesn't mean it should ALWAYS be considered your main spec.
IMO, this is how loot priority should work:
Absent any comment from you, your current role is assumed to be your main spec. This is the loot you will have priority on. If you wish to consider a different spec your main spec, state so at the beginning of the run. That spec will then be considered your main spec for the duration of the run, regardless of what role you are actually filling in the group. This will ensure that a hybrid will not just wait to see what gear drops before they decide what spec they want to consider their main, while still granting people the proper priority. Really, the problem we're trying to avoid here is hybrids rolling on everything just because they can use it--it doesn't matter as much which spec they're rolling for as long as they're only getting priority on one.
uncaringbear Aug 24th 2009 8:13PM
I keep seeing people say they're 'forced' to heal or tank when their main spec is DPS (or vice versa). They then use this logic to justify rolling on an item for their main spec when they are 'forced' to play their off spec.
In reality, no one is forcing you to play your off spec. They primary reason people feel that they are 'forced' to play their off spec is the perception that it will be easier to get the group going and the instance completed. It can be argued that this is a convenience, not a necessity. I have no problems finding PuGs for my pally when I specify in LFG that I will DPS-only.
When I want DPS gear for my pally, I will state clearly that I am there to DPS only. If a healing item drops and it's going to get sharded, I will roll on it. If I need healing gear, I will be there to heal. Sure, there are many times when I will choose to play an off spec to help the group get going, but in those cases, I will never ever roll against someone on an item for their main spec.
Hubuly Aug 24th 2009 9:13PM
my main's a holy priest, the way i avoid this is when i pug i start the group by finding a healer then i can /facemelt in shadowform all i want for that heroic
what i have trouble doing is being dps in raids I always heal in raid just becasue we always seem to have trouble filling that last healing slot and a hunter is willing to dps in my place but its all good i enjoy healing probably more than dps its just healing EVERYTHING gets boring
Spellotape Aug 25th 2009 6:14AM
@ Kadamon
That actually sounds really terrible. So you deserve the healing trinket more than the person healing you at that times does? You've implied you've never seen the trinket drop, so why do you deserve it more than the healer of your group who might also have not seen it drop a million times? Because you spent 1k on dual spec? That benefits *you* more than other people.
Jennifer Aug 27th 2009 12:08PM
I don't join a group unless I tell the leader what I'm going to be rolling on.
For example:
I have an ulduar-geared druid, but I really need better tanking offspec gear. I join a heroic group, which I totally overgear, but let them know that I will be rolling on tank items. They get a ubergeared healer, I get the tank gear I need to replace my greens.
Another example:
I need better healing items, but I'm tanking a pug Naxx on my pally. I've already notified the group that I will be rolling on healer items. A uber tanking item drops -- I cannot roll "mainspec" since I already told them I'd be rolling on healer gear. So, even though I'm tanking, I can't roll for the item -- but if nobody else needs it I'll roll for offspec.
THE PRIMARY RULE:
Whatever spec I'm rolling on, I DO NOT roll on my alternate spec's loot. One spec. ONE.
It is not fair to double-dip to try and get twice as much loot as everyone else. One "mainspec", pick it before you enter the group and make sure everyone knows about it before you start.
It is NOT fair to:
- Roll on both specs as your "main" spec, essentially getting twice the chances on loot
- Announce which spec you're using as your "mainspec" AFTER that shiny item drops. Loot is a gamble, sometimes it drops and sometimes it doesn't. Take your chances like everyone else and pick your spec before you start the run.
- Keep quiet and let people assume which spec is your mainspec. If they see a tree, they'll think you're rolling on healer gear. If you're using your non-active spec as your mainspec, let them know before they get saved to the instance.
Clydtsdk-Rivendare Aug 24th 2009 2:09PM
I always ask before need-rolling on anything. That's usually sufficient.
Creese5704 Aug 24th 2009 2:12PM
Ditto,
I don't like needing on something with out asking first regardless if loot rules have been established to begin.
bean.delphiki Aug 24th 2009 4:43PM
When something is an upgrade for me, regardless of the spec I am currently in, I roll N on it.
Honestly, why do you ask? There's being nice, and trading it to someone who needs the upgrade more, but then there's realizing, oh hey, we can FARM This crap forever and it WILL drop again.
For example, you see the drop that you KNOW you want because it's an upgrade. You ASK for some reason if you can N roll when it drops. Someone in the group says "No." What gives THEM the right to decide what gear is an upgrade for you?
There is etiquette for running with PUG's, with Guilds, and maybe with friends, RL or otherwise, but in the end, YOU are the one who should know what is the best upgrade for you.
So, to sum up, take control and roll N when you want the piece of loot that drops. That's why Blizzard put that button in there.
Clydtsdk-Rivendare Aug 24th 2009 5:35PM
Forgot to mention I only really do that when rolling on tank pieces; since I don't have a full enough tank set yet, I have to DPS heroics to get tank gear, which causes issues.
Anaughtybear Aug 24th 2009 7:09PM
I don't know why Bean got voted down for that, other than most WoW players are closed-minded about this type of thing. Obviously, Blizzard thinks that is a fair system, or we would have seen something else by now.
ou might not like the results, but it is perfectly fair to roll need/greed on anything you can use. What technically isn't fair is guild leaders blocking you out of something for whatever their feeble reasoning might dictate. If people didn't master loot shit and everyone used a little bit of common sense, guild drama would disappear almost entirely.
That being said, people's awful behavior in groups is the reason I now play exclusively solo. I never pug or raid anymore, as I have never had even a remotely positive experience in a group.
jbodar Aug 24th 2009 8:24PM
@Anaughtybear
Need/Greed is a mechanism, a means to an end. Bean's attitude sounded dangerously close to "I'll roll for whatever the hell I like and everyone else can sit and spin". Maybe he just phrased it poorly, but that's how it came out. It resonated with one reason people hate PUGs so his post got rated down.
Asking before rolling is more like a "heads up" so people can object and the group can work it out. People tend to get pissy when other just roll without warning, though this should be mitigated somewhat with the new loot trade ability. Look, you're always gonna have loot whores and loot micro-managers. Let's just keep it civil, eh?