Breakfast topic: Has Trial of the Grand Crusader been a reasonable challenge?
by Matt Low 
Sep 6th 2009 at 8:00AM
My raiding guild suffered from the Anub'Arak soft reset issue where we were unable to reach the floor where the oversized bug was. We wanted to clear him out on normal mode before we switched over to the harder difficulty. But since the floor was intact, we couldn't! (Note: This has since been fixed).
Because of this, we decided to toggle on Heroic mode for Trial of the Crusader on 25 just to get a feel for it. Some guilds believe that the Coliseum, even on heroic, is too easy. So I went in wondering what the fuss was all about. I wanted to know how easy the heroic setting would be.
But that's when I faced the reality check.
Remember, not everyone is in a top 100 guild. We burned through about 10 attempts that night just working on the first encounter alone. That experience helped to ground us and we realized what we needed to do to get through that mountain. In the end, we weren't able to even get past Gormok. We came to the conclusion that we were definitely going to need to coordinate healing and tanking cooldowns to break past the final minute of the first boss.
Nonetheless, it was fairly humbling. We'll have to go in next time much more carefully and with a more detailed game plan in mind.
It's been several days since Trial of the Grand Crusader has been accessible. Do you feel it has just the right amount of challenge for your raid group? Have you found it too easy or too difficult?
Filed under: Breakfast Topics, Raiding
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 5)
Vegtables Sep 6th 2009 8:10AM
I haven't done the 25 man, but judging it from the 10, i'd say its alot more accessible than Ulduar was at first. I think maybe they toned it down a bit to help people catch up - along with the new badge changes, so that EVERYBODY will have a shot getting into Icecrown and seeing some of encounters they've worked hard on for this xpac. At least, this is what im hoping.
Gothia Sep 6th 2009 9:22AM
This fight is not easy because of the coordination involved and as with anything there is a learning curve. I have pugged 10/25 successfully, but gear checks are a must and the fight is much easier if you have people that are Uld 25 geared. Nax 25 or Uld 10 geared people make this fight much more challenging for a pug because they are naturally uncoordinated,but can be done - it will start pretty painful and if you get droppers then you have probably wasted a lockout for that week.
EZ Sep 6th 2009 12:02PM
the way I see it is that Naxx was a 'soft gear reset' for the people that wanted a shot at the tough dungeon (ulduar). Now ToC is the 2nd 'soft reset' by making bosses slightly less difficult than ulduar, and making triumphs for daily's available. This way anyone who *wants* it can catch up to get a shot at the tough dungeon (icecrown citadel). My crackpot theory applies to normal modes only.
Chris Gardner Sep 6th 2009 8:15AM
A lot of people on the Wow Raids & Dungeons forum tend to complain based on normal difficulty (which Blizzard has repeatedly said they want more accessible). Yeah, there's a small group of vocal complainers that actually beat the hard mode stuff quickly, but their happiness seems tied to how many times they wipe learning something. Eve is probably a better game for them.
Tferr Sep 6th 2009 8:24AM
I spend several hours in Trial of the grand crusader(10m). We didn't get beasts down, but it was damn close at some points. Best was a wipe at Icehowl at 200k hp left. What I've come to understand is that (at least) the 10m is VERY, very RNG. If you're unlucky both your healers can get fire bombs / snobolds. Going with 3 healers and you won't make the enrage timer. It's incredebly unfair, I don't understand how a moderatly serious guild can do it.
Hard fights = Ok, but it's skill that matters then.
Totgc? It's all about luck, there is no skill if you wipe because both your healers got snobolded and fire bombed. NONE
:(
Diogenes Sep 6th 2009 8:36AM
This is patently false. Almost all pugs can do this with 3 healers and the fight is incredibly easy. Join a vent, spread out, and listen to the leader when he calls out when someone has a kobold and you will clear phase 1 easily. In phase 2, put all your dps on acidmaw and if you get poisoned (as shown by turning completely green) run to the fire tank. As for the last boss he is super easy and all you have to do is run out of the way when you have a 100%+ speed boost for his random charges.
The only way you won't be able to clear the timer with 3 healers is if your dumbass dps each does 1000 to 1500 dps. In that case they should either go learn how to play or do some damn heroics or nax10 first (content which they have probably not done anyways).
You only need 2000+ dps going with 3 healers. If you spend any time reading on your class at all you can do this in blues. If you get nax 10/25 gear you can easily do 4k+ for most dps classes.
If you group with bad people and are unable to recognize it you are probably a bad player yourself.
Alex F Sep 6th 2009 8:45AM
@ Diogenes. I agree with you, normal 10man ToC is a breeze, our social guild had 1-shot the new bosses each week. However hink Tferr is referring to the heroic 10man ToC which I am yet to attempt with my guild.
Lasher Sep 6th 2009 8:48AM
This post ( and this comment too ) is about trial of the GRAND crusader. Or Heroic version if you didn't know the exact name. Everyone needs to pull at least 4k dps or you'll get the second boss before the first one is down.
We also tried it on 10 man, best was bringing the worms to ~200k hp. So, yeah, I'd say it's challanging enough, although pretty buggy.
Elochka Sep 6th 2009 9:19AM
You need 3 healers for 10-man ToGC, period. Even if you are able to heal through the beasts with just two healers (somehow), you'd stop at Twin Valkyrs - raid damage is insane there. As for enrage timer - just bring better geared damage dealers. If nobody dies (and those 3 healers will ensure that), and if damage dealers do a good job, you'll kill Icehowl before the enrage timer hits. For us, he enraged when he was at 1%, so we were able to kill him while he was enraged.
Netheral Sep 6th 2009 8:23AM
In before someone that's never cleared hard mode coliseum says that all content is too easy because top guilds have already cleared it.
skogsturken Sep 6th 2009 11:42AM
Which guilds have cleared it?
skogsturken Sep 6th 2009 11:46AM
25-man that is.
Netheral Sep 6th 2009 12:27PM
Actually, now that you mention it, I'm not even sure if anyone has actually cleared 25 man Trial of the Grand Crusader...
Sunaseni Sep 6th 2009 1:37PM
Grand Crusader was cleared on both 10 and 25 the day it came out, for your information. 25 by Premonition (who did Yogg+0 US-first), 10 by For the Horde. Even got the Achievement to have 25 attempts left, both of them.
skogsturken Sep 6th 2009 1:46PM
Weird how there's nothing about the 25-man clear on mmo-champion or their own guild site.
HECTORtheTURTLE Sep 6th 2009 8:34AM
I'm not going to lie, I think 10 man heroic is hard. My group will get it, but it's going to take some work. It definitely feels like an appropriate "next step" in raiding progression to me and suggests that I personally need to invest more time into gearing up and being at peak performance.
rulez Sep 6th 2009 8:34AM
It's not surprising that heroic is not easy for normal people especially before being decked out in ilevel 245 ;).
jam Sep 6th 2009 8:35AM
It's been a bit of a disappointment.
Easymodes are a joke, but that's okay.
More annoyingly, hardmodes are easy too, apart from the 25-man Anub which still offers some challenge.
Hopefully IC hardmodes are a lot harder.
Treeston Sep 6th 2009 8:53AM
Post your armory with 4/5 TotGC.
Thanks.
On topic:
Easy mode has already been PuG cleared on my realm, but that's fine with me.
As long as Anub continues to pose a challenge on heroic that will keep guilds busy the way Firefighter did, everything is okay.
philippad Sep 9th 2009 4:11AM
I've tried TOC Hard Mode on both 10 & 25 man versions. The 10 man was tough but definitely doable. We got stuck on Faction Champions but think we'll get through that next time we get a chance to raid 10s. 25 man however, was tough! Tonight was the first time we got to try it and it was a bit of a gear check i think - especially for tanks. Healers just can't heal a tank that takes a 29k hit and then a 40k hit straight after, not until a few more upgrades are picked up in any case! We got through Gormok but can't get through the Jourgomours (however they're spelt!)