Patch 5.4 patch notes
Virtual Realms feature revealed
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The latest patch 5.4 newsBreakfast topic: Has Trial of the Grand Crusader been a reasonable challenge?
by Matt Low 
Sep 6th 2009 at 8:00AM
My raiding guild suffered from the Anub'Arak soft reset issue where we were unable to reach the floor where the oversized bug was. We wanted to clear him out on normal mode before we switched over to the harder difficulty. But since the floor was intact, we couldn't! (Note: This has since been fixed).
Because of this, we decided to toggle on Heroic mode for Trial of the Crusader on 25 just to get a feel for it. Some guilds believe that the Coliseum, even on heroic, is too easy. So I went in wondering what the fuss was all about. I wanted to know how easy the heroic setting would be.
But that's when I faced the reality check.
Remember, not everyone is in a top 100 guild. We burned through about 10 attempts that night just working on the first encounter alone. That experience helped to ground us and we realized what we needed to do to get through that mountain. In the end, we weren't able to even get past Gormok. We came to the conclusion that we were definitely going to need to coordinate healing and tanking cooldowns to break past the final minute of the first boss.
Nonetheless, it was fairly humbling. We'll have to go in next time much more carefully and with a more detailed game plan in mind.
It's been several days since Trial of the Grand Crusader has been accessible. Do you feel it has just the right amount of challenge for your raid group? Have you found it too easy or too difficult?
Filed under: Breakfast Topics, Raiding
Reader Comments (Page 2 of 5)
Xzeno Sep 6th 2009 8:49AM
Blizzard is experimenting. They wanted to make raids mor accessible in WRath, as opposed to BC and Vanilla. I think they have succeeded, a lil too much.
I must say. With that revolational idea, our instances were locked. But yea...Naxx was incredibly easy, even for soemone never being in a raid before, like myself...
Hopefully for Cata, they up the bar just a lil. Then we should be good.
As for you, Diogenes...
expect a bomb in your mailbox tomorrow....
GTFO!!!!!!!!!
Tferr Sep 6th 2009 8:54AM
@ Diogenes
You can't do the 10m with 3 healers on HEROIC, i.e. "Hard Mode". There is a timer for when the next boss will come so if one dps dies, you're gonna have Icehowl come and say hello while you're still fighting Dreadscale and Acidmaw. The amount of damage put on the tanks is insane. Icehowl's ferocious butt ability hits for 19k, and he will still melee the tank which can mean that your tanks can almost, ALMOST, get one shotted. Even with 46000+ hp.
You sound like a bit of a jerk Diogenes. Please, have some respect and read the comment properly before starting to flame people for what to me seems like no reason at all.
Wiki Sep 6th 2009 8:50AM
at Diogenes,
He was saying Trial of the GRAND crusader- he's already completed the regular one. On heroic mode, fire leaves an extremely nasty dot, Gormok and the snobolds have more health and getting stunned into the fire is extremely fatal. My group (Who has bested everything but Yogg+1 and Algalon at this moment) had an extremely tough time. By the way, there IS NO SPEED BUFF on hard mode. Meaning it is a lot easier to make a mistake. So before you make a nasty comment like that saying they should go back to Naxxramas and Learn to Play you need to Learn to read.
Porky Sep 8th 2009 1:43PM
'extremely fatal'.
+1, I like that. More than merely fatal. You sure do get extra-dead in a hurry.
Elochka Sep 6th 2009 8:56AM
Didn't do the 25-man version yet, but judging from 10-man version, the beasts encounter is just hugely overtuned. We downed the beasts at around 25 attempts, then it took around 10 attempts to reach Anub. So the beasts are much harder than bosses 2-4. Anub looks challenging enough, but all in all, this tier of content seems easier than Ulduar was.
Projekx Sep 6th 2009 3:15PM
I must agree with you Matt
To get past all the encounters in 25 man, you will need a lot of coordination, a lot of self-awareness from your team members and a lot of gold for your tanks. We spent a full night to finally down the first boss in the 25 ToC, its only a matter of having everyone doing the right think.
Its really rewarding though to finally be able to pick a picture with boss :)
nonentity Sep 6th 2009 9:03AM
ToC Heroic is definitely a step up from normal ToC. Haven't tried the 25man Heroic yet, our 25man raid is ... not the best, took us about... ~ 3 hours to get to and kill Anub'Arak.
In 10man we finished the first Boss encounter (Gormok, the Jormugars, the Wall-Smasher) on Heroic but got crushed at Jaraxxus. We couldn't focus and dps fast enough on the portals and volcanos and adds subsequently, we always had at least 1 add too much (2 or 3 sisters, etc.).
Overall I like it, Heroic is actually hard (for our not-hardcore guild/raid), makes me not feel dirty for getting such good loot for it. ^^
Diogenes Sep 6th 2009 9:13AM
My bad, I thought he was tlaking about TOCrusader. I'm just tired of all these failures of players who put out only 1000 dps/hps and expect blizzard to hang out epics. Its not even about letting everyone see content. They get to 80, expect to be able to completely skip during heroics and earlier raids and expect to be doing icecrown already.
How much time do most people spend playing wow a day? Even casuals generally put in an hour or so a day doing dailies and maybe a heroic once they hit 80.
In one year you will spend hundreds of hours playing wow. And to learn how to play your class takes like 30 minutes of googling.
If most people did that you would see how incredibly easy a lot of content has become. I don't particularly hate on normal modes being easy: that is fine and gives more casual people a challenge but I do dislike the fact that sad excuses for players are constantly on this site insulting those of us that want a challenge.
Look at games like left4dead. The normal mode is very easy and thats fine since many casual people enjoy playing with their friends every now and then but if you want the meat of the game you play hard mode and versus to understand the mechanics.
Valt Sep 6th 2009 9:31AM
If you thought he was talking about TOC normal maybe you should .. I dont know.. read atleast the title, rather than just look at the picture and post eyes filled with rage to comment section.. if you honestly missed GRAND word thats spelled with HUGE ASS FONT SIZE?
Troll points: 2/10
Flad Sep 6th 2009 4:21PM
My bad, I thought people who leave comments read the article they comment on first. I'm just tired of all these failures of commenters who put out only 10 minutes into typing a misinformed and irrelevant rant and expect wow.com to appreciate their nuanced political commentary. Its not even about letting everyone comment. They get to the reply button, expect to be able to completely skip reading the article and earlier comments and expect to be read for their brilliant insights already.
How much time do most people spend commenting on wow.com articles in a day? Even casual readers generally put in an hour or so a day skimming articles and maybe leaving comments once they feel like they have something to add to the conversation.
In one year you will spend hundreds of hours reading wow.com. And to learn how to leave intelligent comments takes like 30 seconds of reading the article and making sure you're not a blathering moron.
If most people did that you would see how incredibly easy it is to leave decent comments. I don't particularly hate on people who post boring comments: that is fine and gives more casual people a chance to feel like they're contributing, but I do dislike the fact that sad excuses for commenters are constantly on this site insulting those of us that know how to read.
Look at sites like 4chan. The comments are very trolly and thats fine since many casual people enjoy screwing around on the internets with their friends every now and then but if you want information on the game you go to wow.com and actually read the articles to understand the mechanics.
Trent Sep 6th 2009 8:01PM
Flad, you officially win the internet. Congratulations.
Sky Sep 7th 2009 12:43AM
Flad you made my day
Cameron Sep 6th 2009 9:19AM
"But since the floor was intact, we couldn't! (Note: This has since been fixed)."
This bug hasn't been as fixed as you might think, as my guild encountered it on Thursday.
We had cleared the first 4 bosses and took our first shot at Anub'Arak on regular mode on Tuesday, but when we went back the next raid night, no luck -- there was no npc to start up the encounter.
Mynsc Sep 6th 2009 9:29AM
We did 10man heroic with 3 healers and it was perfectly fine. Until Anub that is... thats one of the biggest dps checks I've seen in this game. We switched to 2 healers there and it still wasnt enough dps to get to the last phase without using BL and other cooldowns. Our other guild group on the other hand, had a bit more balnaced comp and they managed to down Anub with exactly 25 tries left. :D
Anyway, about the general feel of the instance... normal modes were a real joke. It actually felt like Naxx all over again. But then came the heroic mode and I must say I'm impressed. We had to give all we had to get to Anub 10m heroic and even if the fights will prolly feel easy in 3,4 weeks when we'll get some more gear on, I must say they are and will be incredibly fun.
We havent tried 25man hc yet, prolly today, but judging by the reactions, it will indeed be a welcomed challenge.
Notaa Sep 6th 2009 9:59AM
Confused.
I thought you had to have killed Anub'arak on 25m-normal mode before you could start the 25man-heroic mode. If this is so, how could the author 'toggle on Heroic mode' and get straight onto Northrend Beasts if his guild hadn't yet killed Anub'arak on 25 man-normal due to the floor respawning glitch?
Am I misinformed?
jam Sep 6th 2009 9:55AM
It's funny how whenever someone suggests something might be a bit too easy (in their opinion), their posts get downvoted. I'm not just talking about Diogenes who was unnecessarily rude.
Who are these people who do it, and WHY they do it?
Is it about insecurity "I'm a great player yet I'm having trouble with this encounter, people who say it's too easy are elitist assholes", or what?
Just curious.
Kaeona Sep 6th 2009 12:07PM
Because 99.99999% of the people who come in with the opinion that something is too easy then immediately follow it up with a line of derogatory statements about how other people suck and QQ too much and need to have their bottoms wiped by Blizzard and how back when raids really mattered people wiped 1,000,000 times on a boss and they liked it, and to get to the raid they had to walk uphill, both ways in the snows while pre-pubescent glittery vampires made out with their girlfriends and ghosts ate all their food and werewolves killed their parents and necromancers reanimated them and they kept trying to pull out the plug while they were on the last boss but it didn't matter because they were HARD CORE!
That would be my guess....
Vandersveldt Sep 6th 2009 12:47PM
Alright, I don't consider myself hardcore, but I do hate when games take my challenge out of them. I play games for the challenges. I loved Mario Galaxy for instance, because every time you found a secret level, the ONLY reward you got for finding it was to play the secret level. And the secret level was always harder than the normal ones. The ONLY reward, was to play something harder! (not that that was a hard game, just showing that some gamers consider being given a challenge a good thing, almost like a little present.)
I'm not elitist, I don't care that there are thousands of games out there for people that don't want super hard challenges, it's just that they don't make many games for those of us that ARE super nerdy, and WANT all that spreadsheety-do-it-right-goodness, and when they take one of those few games that offer us that, and make it into another game for the casuals.... well it just feels unfair. The casuals already have soooo many games they can play, why do they need to take another one of ours?
Anyway, I really only started typing this response to say that even though I don't believe every gamer that wants a challenge is an elitist, the person who wrote about elitists above me made me laugh very very hard.
tim Sep 6th 2009 4:48PM
Every play Planescape: Torment?
Well, that's the type of a game *I* want more of. Games with intricate story-lines, well-crafted characters. (But guess what. Nobody makes games like that anymore, because they don't sell as well.)
So maybe I should camp the official forums complaining that Blizzard needs to hire better writers because, after all, they should cater to *me*... but I don't. Most players seem just fine with the quality of writing and lore. Blizzard does what they think is best, and though I disagree sometimes, I still think they make a good enough game for my $15 a month.
Imagine that - disagreeing with something and keeping your mouth shut because you know that the game isn't made for you, it's made for 10 million players. That is why most elitist comments get downranked and flamed on. Well, that and what Kaeona said.
Zinn Sep 6th 2009 10:09AM
My guild had a similar experience last week. So far we've downed every boss on first or second try (10man) even without much reading of tacs beforehand. Our guild isn't even that good at raiding, we haven't gotten to Algalon or anything yet, so normal toc is fairly easy.
So last week they were gonna try heroic mode (still 10man). Unfortunately I couldn't attend but I heard afterwards they couldn't even get past the first encounter and decided we needed way more organisation and strategies.
The difference is apparently, at least on the first tries, extreme.
(Or maybe it's simply because I wasn't there ;))