Officers' Quarters: Guild leader loot rage
Every Monday Scott Andrews contributes Officers' Quarters, a column about the ins and outs of guild leadership.This week's e-mail describes a fairly typical loot drama situation. What makes it unique is that it involves the guild leader, who did not handle the issue very well at all, as you will see. As officers, we have to be very careful about how we handle loot for our own characters. We have to set the example for how we'd like our members to deal with loot issues. Let's look at the e-mail first. Then I'll talk about what this guild leader should have done differently.
Hello --
I have written to you before regarding an attendance issue in the guild I was in. Your response was very timely and incredibly helpful -- once 3.2 hit we made raids happen a lot quicker.
Recently, we made an adventure into Ulduar. We did very well for a small guild and got up to Thorim in one night. After a few wipes, one person had to leave and was replaced with a new person. We made the decision to have the new person switch to his DPS spec and had one of our existing DPS go to a tank spec. We downed him that attempt (which was awesome). I was the Master Looter, so I opened up the chest and a Tier token dropped, along with the epic mace Legacy of Thunder. The DPS who had switched to tank was a Warrior, and the mace was a huge upgrade for him. I said in raid, "Roll for Legacy". The Warrior rolled and a Paladin, the guild master, rolled against him. The Warrior won the roll, so I gave the item to him. The GM whispered me a message along the lines of "way to do loot". I didn't think too much of his comment, and logged off for the night.
I logged back on the next day to find myself demoted from Officer rank. My question for you is: Was giving the mace to a player who had been a tank for the fight it dropped off of when they won the roll out of line and worth getting demoted for? There was a confrontation which led to my leaving the guild. I only want to know if I was wrong in giving the item to them, when our loot rules had never specified that I shouldn't have.
Thank you for any response!
--Anonymous
It's hard for me to say whether you did the right thing or not according to your own rules, since I don't know what those rules are. You seem to think that you were following the proper procedure. Being the master looter for raids, I'm inclined to believe that you know your guild's loot rules intimately. And if my assumptions are correct, then you absolutely did the right thing and your guild leader had no right to demote you.
Even if you had messed up somehow, it hardly seems like the demotion would be a just consequence. I don't blame you for feeling bitter about the situation or for leaving your guild.
Do I think that an alt spec should get an upgrade over a main spec? No -- that's not a system I would ever recommend, even if that person were using their alt spec for the fight where the loot dropped. (I assume your GM is a tanking main and the warrior was not.)
That is not the point here, however. Whatever the rules are, the guild leader clearly signed off on said rules. If he thought it might be unfair to someone, he is the first person who could do something about it. But he seemed fine with the rules as they were, until it meant losing out on a nice drop for his own toon.
If the rules were so vague as to put you in a difficult position where priority was unclear, then the guild leader has to take the blame for that as well. In the heat of the moment is not the place to redefine loot expectations, alter rules, or discuss exceptions. The way it seems to me is that your guild leader demoted you in a fit of selfish loot rage. If anyone else had lost the roll on the mace, I doubt it would have been an issue.
This is probably the worst way he could have handled this situation and the results are dire. Now his guild has lost a valuable raider and officer. Not to mention, the members who remain have now seen that it's OK to throw a fit if you don't win a roll. So your former guild leader shouldn't be surprised to see loot drama springing up all over the place. He has set the tone. Now he has to live with it.
I'm sure the person who won the roll feels pretty uncomfortable about the whole thing now, as well, if he's still in the guild.
Everyone likes getting upgrades, even guild leaders. But we have a greater responsibility to show poise, self-control, and a fair-minded nature when confronted with a personal loot situation. We need to behave the way we want our own members to behave in similar circumstances.
Let's take a look at how this particular guild leader could have handled this situation better. When the mace dropped and you opened up the rolls to anyone, the guild leader should have known what the rules were. If he didn't know, he should have calmly asked for a clarification. (Yes, it would have been a bit embarrassing, but what he did later was far more embarrassing, in my opinion.) You would have explained why the paladin had a right to roll on the mace for his DPS spec. At that point, your guild leader should have gone along with the rule, provided you were correct about it. (Never change your own rules on the fly to benefit yourself -- that's the most blatantly selfish thing you can possibly do!)
Alternatively, the GL could have waited until after the raid to speak with you in private about why you made that decision. I applaud him for waiting till later to say something rather than cause a scene in the middle of the run. However, his sarcastic comment was not particularly helpful. In fact, it's pretty passive/aggressive -- as was his ninja demotion while you were offline.
After losing the roll, your guild leader could have had a conversation with the other officers about whether the rules are fair and effective at gearing up raiding members properly. If changes are made at this point, they need to be presented to the guild in a constructive way. The guild leader could have written something like this: "Losing the roll on the mace made me realize that our rules are not effective at gearing up our main specs to perform their best in raids. The officers felt that we needed to revisit our rolling priorities to make sure our characters are getting the gear they need to help us progress. We value players with dual specs and we want to support their flexibility. At the same time, we need to recognize that items don't benefit our raids when they aren't being used during most progression encounters."
Due to the way your guild leader behaved, the message the guild actually got from this situation was, "I will throw a fit if I don't get the loot I want, and you should, too." And that can only hurt the guild. Trust me: You're better off in a different guild.
I realize it can be disappointing to lose out on gear, but we as officers have to keep a healthy perspective. Loot is fun and can be a nice status symbol, but its primary function is to help your guild progress. Achievements like Observed will always be a better status symbol than any single drop. Help your guild first and foremost, and other good things will come as a result of that.
/salute
PS: I realize I owe everyone a column about guild currency and achievements in Cataclysm. Look for that next Monday!
Filed under: Officers' Quarters (Guild Leadership)
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Reader Comments (Page 4 of 4)
soonerwolf Sep 8th 2009 11:32AM
Similar thing happened long ago (pre-Wrath) in a guild I used to be in:
We were in Zul'Aman, and the spellpower mace dropped. In those times, spellpower weapons were ideal for paladin tanks. Our guild rules were "Main use roll," with the raid leader having final authority (even over officers/guild leader).
The tankadin rolled, and the guild leader (holy pally) rolled. Tankadin won the roll fair and square, so the raid leader gave to him. The guild leader right then and there threw a hissy-fit in /o, saying it's a better use for a holy pally (it was incremental upgrade for him, but a large upgrade for our tankadin). This led to the raid leader /gquitting, followed by most of the officers both during and after the raid as the GL kept ranting.
We formed another guild, and now we have a loot rule system that's pretty darned fair (even PUGs like it). Also, raid leader has final authority. It's worked out pretty well over the past year.
el ranchero Sep 8th 2009 12:48PM
I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere, but the new ability to trade soulbound items for 2 hours must also be considered here. If the GM had a beef with the way the roll shook out, and he waited out the 2 hour grace period without requesting a reconsideration of the loot distribution, it's his own fault. He had an opportunity to correct the issue before it got out of hand and passed on it.
Hey Fucker Sep 8th 2009 1:21PM
I think that the Guild Leader was just being greedy, and was upset because the piece that they wanted dropped and that they didn't get it. Big deal.
The other thing is that we don't know that the Guild Leader was a tank. It's not stated in the letter. We only assume that because the GL rolled on a tanking item.
Either way, unless it was called as a main spec roll, the Warrior was in the right to roll, and the former guild member was in the right to give it to him, at least that's how it goes in my guild.
Xarnlen Sep 8th 2009 1:27PM
First off I believe he gave out the loot fair.
But I have issue with everyone on calling the dual spec system main and off spec, luckily as a mage I do not have to worry too much about spec switching during a raid. The players who run a warrior/druid/paladin are another issue, I feel that what you have with the spec's instead should be termed primary and secondary, and what is good for the job that needs to be done at the time spec. In our raid which we use a karma system for the loot we simply ask that anyone wanting stuff allow the person who is trying to fill out their primary spec before doing their secondary spec. but we do not stop you from gearing out the other spec you have since we realize we might call on you at a given fight to switch to your second spec because that is the job we need done at that time. If you are a feral druid and we need you to heal in a fight we don't expect you to be denied healing gear just because you primarily use feral gear, we realize you also need good healing gear because we need you to that job also.
If you are asked to run in your secondary spec all through a raid I believe you should get equal chance on loot for that spec type as anyone else. There is a catch 22 to all the dual spec issue's and in general to the raids that only take people who meet achievement's and that is you can't get the gear and achievements and if you are not allowed to roll on the needed gear no matter if you are in your primary or secondary spec'd, or to get into the raid in the first place.
If you don' get the gear then your left standing there as you are overlooked for the next raid because the leader looks at you and see's poor gear and does not want that person because they are under geared. if you complain that you were denied a chance because the last time in a raid as secondary spec'd, on a gear roll that would improve your secondary spec you were not allowed to roll since it was to improve the so called -off spec-, again a case of catch 22 which leads to not getting into a raid to get achievement for killing a boss which gets you denied again for achievement reasons.
a vicious circle
I think with the rush to see end content leads to lack of patience, a good raid group who spends time to outfit their players in both spec's even if it takes twice as long to do it will in the end be a more efficient and happy group.
Also if the group who use's a occasional pugger to fill out, allows that person to get loot no matter what spec will find a lot of the time that that person by word of mouth will say this is a awesome group to raid with because they are more than fair with loot.
I find that is important when getting 25 man's together and need those last 2-4 people on a raid night, some of these people are awesome player's even if under equipped and we know that getting them better equipped will make them that much more valuable.
These people will more than willing on spur of the moment join you knowing they will have a fair chance at loot.
xnn Sep 8th 2009 3:58PM
IMO, you choose a main spec before the instance (regardless of what the raid needs you to do atm). Main spec rolls come first, then offspec if no one needs, then you shard.
If it is a proper roll where everyone is rolling on their main spec, then the best you can do is pray to the RNG gods.
Deadly. Off. Topic. Sep 9th 2009 10:50AM
The problem is that people dual spec a lot more easily now and they are by right (they should) be entitled to two sets of gear if they play both equally. Note the words - play both equally.
That GM was an idiot. He didn’t take charge of the run, he didn’t bother to take charge of the loot, he just did what anyone who was selfish and didn’t get their pixelated toy did... punish the player who did the work for them.