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9-09-2009 @ 4:56PM
Blizzard has been pretty good about seperating pvp and pve content. They don't force pve players to pvp, and hardcore pvp players can get great gear without being forced to pve. ToC seems to have changed that. Faction Champions is an arena encounter. It uses arena tactics, crowd control's, an awareness of pvp tactics, and if you haven't, don't, or hate pvp it brings a raid to a screeching halt.Why would blizzard force pve players to basically learn pvp skill sets now, when they've been so good about keeping them seperate to this point. Any chance the encounter will be re worked? GC has said he doesn't want to force raids to bring certain classes, but if you don't to this encounter it's a 3 hour wipe fest.If this encounter isn't the most drastic detour from Blizzard's stated policy goals, what do you think is?
9-09-2009 @ 5:50PM
That was actually my initial reaction to the Faction Champs. But it's not really a PvP fight. PvP gear does not give you any advantage (aside from possibly the PvP trinket). It simply requires different tactics to win. My raiding group is by no means elite (we only raid 2 nights a week and still have trouble with normal mode Thorim) but we've taken the Faction Champs down 3 weeks in a row now in only one or two tries. I think this fight is hardest on the raiders who are used to taking a static position and either DPSing or healing for the rest of the fight. Unlike most boss encounters, you have to really focus on both offensive and defensive CC, offensive and defensive dispelling and mobility. I'm a holy priest and I find that I'm only actively healing about 20% of the fight; the other 80% I'm dispelling, throw renews on random people, or running away while I've got aggro.
9-09-2009 @ 5:29PM
I really don't understand your complaint. You're fighting against NPCs. It's really nothing like PvP.
9-09-2009 @ 7:40PM
@tim:Npcs with a random aggro table, who use CC and dispels, against whom pvp-diminishing returns are in effect...Please, don't comment on things you don't understand.For all blizz's 'take the player' guff, you're fucked on this encounter (on anything above 10 man, since that is a total loot pinata) without solid cc and offensive dispelling classes.It really is like arena in a raid. Like Pyril, this confuses me.
9-09-2009 @ 7:44PM
Except that:"None of the Champions are susceptible to any form of Crowd Control, except stuns."But other than that, yeah, just like Arena. :|
9-09-2009 @ 7:45PM
P.S. Source: http://www.wowwiki.com/Trial_of_the_Champion
9-10-2009 @ 3:21AM
@Agerath"Npcs with a random aggro table, who use CC and dispels, against whom pvp-diminishing returns are in effect..."This doesn't make it a PvP encounter. The heart of a PvP encounter is the inherent unpredictability and versatility of the opponent. These are NPCs. They follow a (rather limited) set of if/then rules.It is not a PvP fight. I am not saying this to be a jerk (and I regret if I come across as one), but as someone who's both raided and played PvP extensively.It might seem like a PvP battle if you PvE exclusively, but it is not. It's a PvP-themed PvE encounter.
9-10-2009 @ 5:34AM
@myselfWell, crap. I'm an idiot. Wrong damn encounter.
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