Spiritual Guidance: What's up Shadow Priests?

Every Sunday (usually), Spiritual Guidance will offer practical insight for priests of the holy profession. Your host is Matt Low, the grand poobah of World of Matticus and a founder of No Stock UI, a UI and addons blog for WoW. Get ready for something you'll thought you'll have never read!
Sorry healing Priests, it's your week off today. I've never written much about Shadow Priests at all mostly because I don't play one extensively enough to confidently write about them. I can tell you basic stats to shoot for like the amount of hit necessary and that crit is an excellent secondary stat. But full in-depth guides for what to do on bosses? Nope, sorry.
Anyway, this week's post isn't about that.
I wanted to write this post from the perspective of a raid leader instead of a person playing a Shadow Priest. We're going to take a look at Shadow DPS as a whole.
Is Shadow DPS high enough?
It doesn't feel that way to me right now. I look at various DPS charts over the past week and Shadow Priests consistently make up the bottom on different fights. While I may not have a Shadow Priest, I am no stranger to playing a DPS class. I have an Elemental Shaman and a Retribution Paladin I like to play during off raid times. I can tell you with some degree of certainty that there are three simple reasons why a player's DPS isn't up to par.
- Latency: The speed at which information transfers from your computer to the server or the rate at which your screen refreshes information can affect DPS severely. There's nothing that can be done from that aside from switching ISPs or getting some new hardware.
- Gear: Easy. The player lacks the gear that the encounter requires in order to defeat it. Don't expect to do much damage in Crusader's Coliseum with a hybrid of Naxx level epics and dungeon blues. All things being equal, the better the gear, the better the damage output. No, I'm not going to take into account extraneous factors like movement, encounter strategy and so forth. Let's try to keep the playing field level here.
- Skill: This is the final piece. Are players doing what they can to maximize their DPS? Or they refreshing their spells and making use of every global cooldown? Individual performance affects DPS.
So when I spoke to several Shadow Priests in my guild and other guilds, I did my best to isolate and control for these factors. All Priests I've spoken are sporting Ulduar level gear or higher. Some are even wearing a piece of tier 9 or two along with minor upgrades. I'm also fairly certain it's got nothing to do with latency or skills either. They've been playing the game for quite some time and have done their work. One Priest even spent an enormous amount of gold to swap out gems and enchants in a bid to see if it was possible for other improvements.
I have a tingling sense that Shadow Priests might need a slight bump. During the time I was brainstorming this post, there weren't any announced changes to Shadow Priests yet.
The latest patch 3.2.2 PTR build yielded these changes:
Improved Spirit Tap: Mind Flay periodic critical strikes now have a 50% chance to trigger this talent.
Twisted Faith now grants spell power equal to 4/8/12/16/20% of spirit, up from 2/4/6/8/10%.
It appears that Priests are supposed to take a closer look at gear with Spirit on it. With Mind Flay capable of activating Improved Spirit Tap, the chances of the Spirit bonus activating increase. This further ties in with Twisted Faith. In other words, more chance to trigger Spirit increases along with Spirit adding slightly more spell power bonuses. I haven't spoken to any Priests on the PTR who've experienced these changes first hand. Obviously there is going to be a slight DPS improvement to tweak the Shadow Priest damage upwards.
This approach to class balance and design is a marked departure from Burning Crusade. Read the following excerpt by Ghostcrawler on Elemental Shaman DPS.
One thing I will add is to fret less about scaling. In BC if you didn't scale well, you were going to be in trouble for many tiers of content. These days we adjust classes so frequently that it's much less of an issue. Worst case is you will start to slip slightly behind other classes as everyone gets gear, but then the very next tier will be a reset (and honestly we really only have one tier left).
Put another way, if you and your friend start an instance at 5000 dps and then as you get gear she goes to 7000 dps while you go to 6000 dps, then that's a scaling problem. But under out current design philosophy in WoW we will adjust you if you fall that far behind.
Every patch yields minor adjustments to various classes to give them a slight boost to whatever role they play. The Spirit improvements above are an example of this. There's no knowing how effective it will be in a raid environment just yet. Maybe some more numbers need a bit more tweaking. But we won't know until it's released with all changes finalized.
Would I bring Shadow Priests to raid?
What ever happened to the bring the player-not-the-class mentality, right? Shadow Priests do provide an amazing amount of utility between Replenishment (mana restoration), Vampiric Embrace (health restoration), and Misery (extra chance to hit). That's a good amount of extra raid-boosting stuff that they contribute. I'll usually bring 1 or 2 Shadow Priests to the raid because I know they're solid players who are capable of dodging fires and the like.
On most encounters, this is true.
However, when faced with an encounter where the DPS benchmark is insanely high, I'd have to rethink the roster. I know if I'm working on certain hard modes, there is a DPS minimum required in order to win. At that point, I would be faced with no other option to take and use whatever class is at my disposal to get the job done.
Yeah, it's a real diplomatic answer isn't it?
So Shadow Priests, where do you think you stand right now?
Got some Priest issues or topics you want to see addressed? Feel free to follow me on Twitter!
Filed under: Priest, (Priest) Spiritual Guidance






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 5)
Sten Sep 15th 2009 6:13PM
been playing shadowpriest for quite some time and now im gearing my hunter. trough the latest patches i have been following dps rankings on
http://code.google.com/p/simulationcraft/
http://www.wowmeteronline.com
and shadowpriest has been close to the bottom for long. its true they bring some nice raid buffs such as misery and repelishment, but this is something you can get even without a priest. 3% hit from boomkin and repelishment from a bunch of classes. vampiric embrace is what made me stay on my priest for so long before i started gearing hunter. its an awesome ability really, but only to keep yourself alive. the rest of healing from it is not raidwide and heals much lower than on self, even when talented its not a much noticable heal for the raid.
im not rerolling, not yet at least. im just gonna spend some time playing a high dps class for once, topping meters with my blues.
th4tba5t4rd Sep 15th 2009 6:30PM
Re: raid buffs/debuffs
Shadow priests bring NOTHING to a raid that cannot be done by other classes. Other classes that are more blessed by Blizzard. The hit debuff is also brought by Boomkin, which have an incredible 3 button rotation with simple nukes that don't run on cooldowns. Replenishment, which was recently nerfed to the ground, more easily brought to a raid by Ret Paladins or Surv Hunters. All three classes are currently able to out DPS a Shadow Priest, provided similar gear and player skill.
bushkanaka86 Sep 16th 2009 11:31AM
A little bit off topic, but last night in ToC 10 normal, Sunreaver Magus' Sandals dropped for my raid off of the Faction Champions. Now the stats on this support a dps caster more than a healer. My guild group had a lock, an Spriest, and a Holy priest (me) that all rolled on this. I won the roll and so I received the item. The Spriest complained (he was 2nd highest) that I shouldn't win that item since it was a DPS item. Keep in mind that this is just a guild pug group sort of and not a set group that runs every week. Here are the changes the item made to my stats:
HP - 60
Mana +250
MP5 -20
Healing +30
Crit +.7%
Haste -.6%
It also has 1 gem socket.
If I throw a +20 Spirit gem in socket, this item is almost completely an improvement for my healing gear, even though it does have some Hit rating that is going to waste.
Is it wrong for a healer to take an item with Hit on it over a caster if it is still an improvement over all?
Dharmabhum Sep 16th 2009 11:52AM
@bushka:
as a disc priest, yes i would say its not cool to take a hit item over a dps that needs it. sure it might be an upgrade, but that could be said for lots of pieces. imagine a new holy priest stepping into naxx25 with blues and some heroic epics. lots of pieces will be an upgrade, but i wouldn't suggest they roll on these items that are dps-oriented (i hope no one will argue too much about +hit items being dps-oriented) if there's a dps that can use them. that being said, i've been wearing some +hit boots for a while that replaced my +resil pvp boots just because i didn't have any legit disc boots to wear... but i didn't take them over a dps, i waited until the offspec roll and rolled fairly.
my .02
bushkanaka86 Sep 16th 2009 12:10PM
Alright. Well, the other part of this is that we are a fairly new guild, about 3.5 weeks old only. We have new members joining and leaving the guild all the time. I, being the GM, have obviously been there the whole time and this Spriest has only been in the guild 1 day and this was his first raid with us. Being a new guild, people join and leave regularly. With no DKP system, I didn't really want to pass on an upgrade to someone who just recently strolled into the guild and may or may not stay past tomorrow.
On the up side for him, we made the rule 1 item a person in ToC and we are going back tonight to try and get our first kills on the Twins and Anub so if he shows up, then chances are very high that he will get whatever caster item may drop from them.
I don't know, if I new him well or if he had been running with us a long time, I would have been willing to pass and let it go to him but with the lack of loyalty in guilds today, I didn't really feel like passing on an upgrade.
Veae Sep 16th 2009 2:47PM
I play a disc priest, and never, never, NEVER take hit gear from a caster in your raid, even it is a slight upgrade for you. Hit goes completely to waste on you (unless you MC all the time or something...?) and there is plenty other gear without hit for you to pick up. The only time I would ever take hit gear is if absolutely no DPS needed it as an upgrade. Let's put it this way...
How would you like a DPS (say a mage) rolling on some trinket with a healing proc (you know, you heal and gain X spell power), because it has crit, when you need that item? It's an extreme example, because normal non-trinket items have many more stats than trinks, but the point should be clear - hit is not for you, unless no other DPS casters require it.
I know people in my guild would be upset if I rolled need on caster gear with hit.
bushkanaka86 Sep 16th 2009 3:59PM
Alright, well, neither the mage or the lock in the group had a problem with me rolling on that item. Only the Shadow Priest did. Oh well. We are really new so I am still trying to work out loot rules and such so I will have to think about that.
In the meantime, like I said, I don't really feel bad about it because that was the 3rd week in a row that I have led guildies in there and it has been different people every week except for me and I had to deal with 30+ wipes and this is the first time any cloth caster gear has dropped in there and this spriest just joined the guild the day before the raid.
I will look into the loot rules from now on, but for this run, I didn't see a problem with it because of the loose structuring of the run. Also, tonight he may win an item that is better.
jellyphish Sep 15th 2009 6:15PM
while I can't really speak much towards PvE facemelting, the biggest problem I've come to encounter in spriest is the incredibly long set up time. Once you get things rolling, you really get things rolling, but getting there takes a little too long. The problem then arises when you have to switch targets often. PvP this is a must (and i suppose certain raid encounters as well), but it proves to be a daunting task that really can kill your rhythm...
Quiz Sep 15th 2009 6:17PM
Shadow dps benefits very little, if at all, from haste---this is the single biggest issue with shadow dps currently, especially on single target fights.
Additionally, the ramp-up time shadow requires before we reach our maximum dps output makes us the anti-burst class. We are more like a dull throb.
I don't know how much these buffs are going to help. It may be a case of too little, too late. IC will be here before you know it.
Wrath really left the spriests out-in-the-cold. Their class/spec was mishandled and overlooked from the very beginning of Wrath when the new philosophy of class homogenization began. There have been constant minor tweaks along the way but we have never really caught up to where we should be.
It's almost like the dev team are still operating under the old spriest model, where our lower baseline dps was offset by our unique role as mana- and health-battery for the raid. When that was taken away from us, and the remaining effects were nerfed almost to the point of uselessness and given to three or four other classes that brought more utility and higher dps, we cried foul because we knew what it portended.
Sengir Sep 15th 2009 6:19PM
As an affliction warlock, I feel your pain.
Rob Sep 15th 2009 6:17PM
I readily acknowledge that our guild isn't really at the level where we are doing hard mode. That said, I'd love to have priests in our raid, so that they can swap out and heal if the encounter warrents it. We have two great priests, and they do fine shadow damage. However I really like their versitility and buffs. To me that warrants the notion that their dps may not be as good as a pure dps build. Again, my opinion, i think that's how it should be. If hybrids can do just as much dps but bring buffs and/or another role, why bring a pure dps spec? Sorry to the priests out there, this is just my opinion.
Rollo Sep 15th 2009 8:32PM
I do not see why a dps mage should do more damage than a dps priest. They are both there to dps, and both bring some utility on the side. One brings +hit buff and potential off-heal, the other brings +int and crowd control.
Rob Sep 15th 2009 11:09PM
Well in my mind, priests have two whole specs dedicated to healing, so they are not main dpsers, whereas mages have 3 dps specs (talent trees). So i'm not sure i agree with the notion that all classes that have dps specs (which is all of them) need to have exactly the same level of dps. I'd expect mages, locks, rogues, hunters, etc to do more dps. But obviously i'm in the minority and the devs dont feel that way.
MazokuRanma Sep 16th 2009 3:40AM
@Rollo
The priest has the ability to supplement healing in their dps spec, the ability to switch specs to perform an entirely different role, the ability to cure disease, sometimes poison, a bonus to hit, a health and spirit buff, and a shadow protection buff, as well as crowd control on undead units.
The mage can provide an intellect buff, remove curses, and crowd control beasts and humanoids, and can make strudel (Something anyone can purchase equivalents of).
Of course, both can dps. Do you really believe the priest be 100% equal? I have a mage, priest, and shaman, and I believe the mage should have slightly higher dps on account of the lack of versatility. None of them are by any means useless, but it is harder for a raid to justify bringing the class that can't just swap into the ability to become a healer (Or a tank for certain hybrids).
If you don't have a dual spec, well, you likely either aren't in a serious raiding guild or are important enough to get away without one. I know not a single hardcore raiding guild on my server will allow members that can have multiple roles to join without two specs. Some go so far as to dictate both of them.
Eric Sep 15th 2009 6:22PM
The highest dps person in my guild is an spriest - not all that high in the grand scheme of things at 4500-5500 depending on raid target, but pretty good anyway.
th4tba5t4rd Sep 15th 2009 6:23PM
Shadow priest scaling in WotLK has been an issue since Naxx. Taking Patchwreck as an example, my guilds locks/mages could pull 6-7k while I'm running along like the fat kid barely touching 4.
Sure, any fight with more than 3 adds, I'm your man with Mind Sear at hand. But, single target, here I am with 2pc T9 and 2pc T8, gemmed and enchanted to the teeth, running multiple addons to squeeze every last bit of DPS out of every global cooldown. And I get to mark the point between serious players and LOLDPS that needs some L2P time. Other classes get simple rotations, I have to run a mod just to tell me when the debuffs on the mob are there to increase my Shadow Word:Pain damage. I run Quartz with a custom texture to show when I can clip Mind Flay without losing DPS.
To do well, Shadow Priests have to do more, every fight, compared to just about everyone.
skyman4321 Sep 15th 2009 7:52PM
Not exactly... The hunter DPS rotation is very complez as well, with around 7 various buttons to press in perfect timing, I don't play a sprist (Or a priest for that matter) so I couldn't say, but you obviously don't have a raiding hunter, or else I wouldn't be leaving this comment ;)
skyman4321 Sep 15th 2009 7:53PM
Extremely sorry for the typos =(
WafNyao Sep 15th 2009 8:54PM
In before huntard comments.
I raided SV for quite sometime, and now I raid as a Marks hunter. I also have a priest who I play almost equally, who is dual spec'd Holy and Shadow.
I wouldn't really reduce it to the number of buttons we have to press, but to dps as either class /i/ ideally /i/ similar accuracy of timing is required.
SV dps is highly dependent on the applied DoTs never expiring, and also reapplying DoTs with Mirror of Truth procs. During Lock and Load we get two free explosive shots with no cd, these have to be timed to hit at the right moment (some hunters actually alter their timing based on how far away they are from the boss) or their explosive ticks overlap and waste each other.
Long story short, I ended up using PowerAuras, OmniCC, and Quartz to track my priority queue.
I do the same thing on my Spriest, and the level of complexity and nuance in timing, if I'm playing both characters to my best, is about the same.
HOWEVER, the difference is that on my hunter, being perfect and making good judgments in shot priority seems to be the difference between spanking the other dpsers or utterly annihilating the other dpsers. If I wanted to be /i/that guy/i/, I can leave my toon on auto shot, answer the door, and come back in time to stay in the top five.
On my spriest, I'm either top three when I'm doing well, or I miss timing a half second here and there and fall to the middle to lower end of the pack.
The actions to do the best possible dps with each class are similar, but it feels that spriests are punished disproportionately for small mistakes.
Turtlehead Sep 16th 2009 7:34AM
Waf's got it right. There are other classes with as or more complicated rotations/priorities but the pain if they're missed varies a lot. A feral kitty letting stuff fall off is screwed. An enhancement shaman has a ton of priorities but if they're missed it's not fatal because they're not linked. Forgetting to re-drop magma or refresh lightning shield is a DPS loss but won't hurt windfury procs or building a maelstrom stack.
Shad has the of the worst of all worlds.
DoTs, no burst and DoTs with a cast time are rough.
Direct damage cast is on a cool down.
Channeled direct damage goes into the toilet if you need to move.
Linked abilities, one buffing the next, one falls off and damage tanks.
If everything works out, the damage is strong (even without scaling well on stats like haste) but otherwise....