A critical examination of Garrosh Hellscream

Yes, I'm talking about Garrosh Hellscream. Everyone's favorite "Oh I hate that guy" guy. And to be frank from the first time my Tauren Warrior stepped off of his kodo in front of the fire in Garadar I've kind of disliked him. He was whiny, dismissive, and petulant, (yes, I said it twice, you're lucky I didn't just type it 3000 times) and frankly even after I went through one of the longest (in terms of what it had me do, anyway) quest chains in BC to finally, finally get Thrall to come out and slap some sense into the kid (which he did with a kicking lightshow - remember Laser Floyd? Yeah, even Laser Floyd didn't have demon lords) I didn't like the new, reinvigorated Garrosh any more than I liked him before. Granted, I didn't expect to ever see him again.
Then there I was in Orgrimmar and suddenly there's Garrosh, giving Thrall lip. So much lip, in fact, that they actually got into a fight. That wasn't all, though. Garrosh won. Seriously, the wiki downplays it, but I was watching, and if the Lich King didn't choose that moment to attack Org then Garrosh was going to slap Thrall down. I was, to put it mildly, stunned. Garrosh? That incredible prat that I couldn't get to take action in Nagrand when I showed him definite proof of the ogre threat? Beating Thrall? How was it possible that the guy who spent four of my levels weeping into a campfire beat one of the best gladiators on the face of Azeroth? Things only got weirder when I got to Borean Tundra.
When I arrived at Warsong Hold, there was Garrosh standing next to Saurfang and actually being a jerk to him. Now, to be honest up until that point Saurfang was more famous for his infamous facts and some insanely nasty cleaves to Alliance stupid enough to pull him (or Horde who were unfortunate enough to run into him when Allies could MC him) but even before I'd gone through the quests that established Saurfang as not just a badass but also a thinking orc I'd always liked the guy. It's impossible not to like a guy who can non-ironically call himself "That which does quell the recalcitrant" really. Well, okay, maybe it's just me. And yet here's Garrosh, talking smack to possibly the greatest living warrior the orcish race has produced. I was pleasantly surprised that Garrosh remembered what I'd done for him, though: characters who hadn't played through the events of Hero of the Mag'har got a considerably less pleasant greeting from the head of the Warsong Offensive.
Since then I've leveled both Horde and Alliance to 80 and really had time to stop and think about Garrosh and his attitude. And frankly, I think the key is this: Garrosh has spent his entire life being afraid. I'm not talking cowardice, or a fear of combat. No, Garrosh has been afraid of himself. When I first arrived at Garadar, I literally fought Garrosh's own opinion of himself the entire way up and down the zone. Look at the sheer amount of work it took to finally get him to stop being terrified of his legacy. Then Thrall comes out and says "No, no, you've got it all wrong. Your dad saved us. It's okay, it's good even to be a Hellscream."
In one moment Garrosh has a lifetime burden lifted from his shoulders, is told that he should embrace being a Hellscream, and given a chance to join an organization that idolizes Grommash. It becomes apparent by his own words that Garrosh's view of the Horde is an idealized one.

To Garrosh, fear (the very fear that once held him back) is the real enemy. The Horde can fear nothing, because it is what freed him from his fear in the first place. Garrosh embraces the Horde because it was the Horde that helped rid him of his terror of becoming like his father. Now, he seeks absolutely nothing more than to be exactly like his father , to the point where even Saurfang comments on how like Grom he is. What Saurfang sees as a cautionary warning - "You're too reckless and impatient, too eager to risk war without even considering the costs" comes to Garrosh's ears as the highest possible praise. After all, his father is savior of the orcs! His father is a great hero! No longer does Garrosh have to stand by a fire, torn by doubts that his will be the hand that dooms the orcs as his father... no, everything his father did turned out to be the right thing to do. It's good to be a Hellscream and act as a Hellscream acts.
Thrall and Drek'Thar have no one to blame for this but themselves, because when they got to Nagrand and found Garrosh paralyzed by indecision their choice was to remove that indecision by making Grom an idealized hero and completely glossing over Garrosh's very real concerns. The fact is, Garrosh is a young orc with a young orc's tendency to go to extremes, and they completely failed to convey any of the complexities of Grom's life to the young orc. His regret, his understanding that he had been duped, his constant battle with the blood haze, his failures and mistakes, the context that made his last heroic stand against Mannoroth a heroic objective correlative. In slaying Mannoroth, the demon lord, Grommash actually slew his own demons as well, but without the context of his own struggles and the suffering his recklessness caused him, the story loses its cautionary bite and Grom is elevated to a cartoonish idol. And that's exactly who Garrosh is trying to be, the cartoon of Grom that Thrall inadvertently created for him at Garadar.
So now Garrosh is pefectly poised to repeat his father's mistakes, because they've been changed into virtues in his eyes. He must find Thrall paradoxical and frustrating, as the older orc has gone from the one who brought him this new understanding and a new world to belong in to a constant irritant trying to get him to stop behaving like a Hellscream. No wonder the two are at constant loggerheads: Thrall wants Garrosh to be his father, and so does Garrosh, but Thrall wants Grom as he remembers him and Garrosh has no idea who that orc is. This all stems from Thrall's tendency to make demigods of the leaders of the old Horde that he met at the end of their lives, like Doomhammer. The Grom Thrall knew was not the one Garrosh would have known. How could he have been?
It makes me wonder what would have happened if Thrall had sent Saurfang as his emissary. At any rate, however, considering what he's been exposed to Garrosh has managed to become exactly what he believes is expected of him in a very short time. He's gone from a sullen adolescent (I have no idea how old Garrosh actually is, mind you) to a warrior capable of giving Thrall a fight and staring Saurfang in the face without a trace of fear. I'd like very much to see a Saurfang/Garrosh duel... if Garrosh won, it would fuel his already aggressive stance even further. And frankly, it might be a good thing for the Horde overall.
The Horde is, and has always been, at a pivot. Thrall's decision to make heroes of members of the old Horde has in effect meant that his government could never disavow their actions, and as a result, can never find peace with the Alliance who remembers them as blood crazed berserkers who poured into Azeroth through the Dark Portal and made common cause with cannibals and lunatics who explode everything in sight. Now, if the rumors are true, rather than a mystic, the Horde will finally have a leader who will fully embrace the warrior ethos of the old Horde and in so doing, bring it home for everyone involved. Frankly, any movement on this part is forward movement, rather than Thrall's hesitant, half-hearted attempts at detente. Perhaps the war needs to burst into full fire once and for all, and if so, Garrosh could be the best possible leader for the Horde, one who truly believes in his people and their righteousness without ambiguity or doubt.
Ironic that it took Thrall, son of Durotan, to give Garrosh, son of Grommash freedom from his doubt and uncertainty, thus making him what he is today.
I feel bad for Garrosh, because I'm pretty sure Cataclysm will be his high point. From there, he'll have to learn, the way his father did, that bloodlust has costs. It seems a shame that the sins of the father are to be visited upon the son who was the most afraid of them.
Edited to Add: Wow, lot of interesting comments already. And while I don't think I possibly can answer all or even most of them, that doesn't mean I don't see your points, especially the ones about how Garrosh seems ungrateful or unrealistic and about how the Thrall/Garrosh fight can be seen differently than how I saw it. There may be enough in what you're all saying for another look into Garrosh in the future.
Thrall and Drek'Thar have no one to blame for this but themselves, because when they got to Nagrand and found Garrosh paralyzed by indecision their choice was to remove that indecision by making Grom an idealized hero and completely glossing over Garrosh's very real concerns. The fact is, Garrosh is a young orc with a young orc's tendency to go to extremes, and they completely failed to convey any of the complexities of Grom's life to the young orc. His regret, his understanding that he had been duped, his constant battle with the blood haze, his failures and mistakes, the context that made his last heroic stand against Mannoroth a heroic objective correlative. In slaying Mannoroth, the demon lord, Grommash actually slew his own demons as well, but without the context of his own struggles and the suffering his recklessness caused him, the story loses its cautionary bite and Grom is elevated to a cartoonish idol. And that's exactly who Garrosh is trying to be, the cartoon of Grom that Thrall inadvertently created for him at Garadar.
So now Garrosh is pefectly poised to repeat his father's mistakes, because they've been changed into virtues in his eyes. He must find Thrall paradoxical and frustrating, as the older orc has gone from the one who brought him this new understanding and a new world to belong in to a constant irritant trying to get him to stop behaving like a Hellscream. No wonder the two are at constant loggerheads: Thrall wants Garrosh to be his father, and so does Garrosh, but Thrall wants Grom as he remembers him and Garrosh has no idea who that orc is. This all stems from Thrall's tendency to make demigods of the leaders of the old Horde that he met at the end of their lives, like Doomhammer. The Grom Thrall knew was not the one Garrosh would have known. How could he have been?
It makes me wonder what would have happened if Thrall had sent Saurfang as his emissary. At any rate, however, considering what he's been exposed to Garrosh has managed to become exactly what he believes is expected of him in a very short time. He's gone from a sullen adolescent (I have no idea how old Garrosh actually is, mind you) to a warrior capable of giving Thrall a fight and staring Saurfang in the face without a trace of fear. I'd like very much to see a Saurfang/Garrosh duel... if Garrosh won, it would fuel his already aggressive stance even further. And frankly, it might be a good thing for the Horde overall.
The Horde is, and has always been, at a pivot. Thrall's decision to make heroes of members of the old Horde has in effect meant that his government could never disavow their actions, and as a result, can never find peace with the Alliance who remembers them as blood crazed berserkers who poured into Azeroth through the Dark Portal and made common cause with cannibals and lunatics who explode everything in sight. Now, if the rumors are true, rather than a mystic, the Horde will finally have a leader who will fully embrace the warrior ethos of the old Horde and in so doing, bring it home for everyone involved. Frankly, any movement on this part is forward movement, rather than Thrall's hesitant, half-hearted attempts at detente. Perhaps the war needs to burst into full fire once and for all, and if so, Garrosh could be the best possible leader for the Horde, one who truly believes in his people and their righteousness without ambiguity or doubt.
Ironic that it took Thrall, son of Durotan, to give Garrosh, son of Grommash freedom from his doubt and uncertainty, thus making him what he is today.
I feel bad for Garrosh, because I'm pretty sure Cataclysm will be his high point. From there, he'll have to learn, the way his father did, that bloodlust has costs. It seems a shame that the sins of the father are to be visited upon the son who was the most afraid of them.
Edited to Add: Wow, lot of interesting comments already. And while I don't think I possibly can answer all or even most of them, that doesn't mean I don't see your points, especially the ones about how Garrosh seems ungrateful or unrealistic and about how the Thrall/Garrosh fight can be seen differently than how I saw it. There may be enough in what you're all saying for another look into Garrosh in the future.
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Reader Comments (Page 5 of 13)
Tolkfan Sep 21st 2009 4:53PM
To those that equate Varian and Garrosh:
(Taken from the comic books, which sadly is one of the only lore sources about those two)
Varian to his son: "I do not thirst for war as some men do. But... it's true that I feel most alive in the midst of battle. Maybe that means there's something wrong with me... though that's just as well, considering our present circumstances. A great and terrible war is coming. When we win and the Lich King has been defeated... then let us hope your time, a time of peace and healing, will begin. When that day comes, you will be greater than I."
Garrosh to Thrall: "By your "statecraft", you turn the orcs to weaklings, Warchief! We should conquer the humans, who are as nothing -- then send our forces to Northrend to crush the Lich King and his undead army! The Horde should rule all of Azeroth!"
Varian embraces the warrior ethos, Garrosh should be put down like the mad dog he is.
toxicityj Sep 21st 2009 5:29PM
but Wrynn was a complete douchebag after Wrathgate in that little cinematic we got pre-3.2 (3.1? idk). A rogue group of undead went behind the back of their race and the Horde and attacked both sides. Yet Wrynn ignores reason, proof, etc. and blames the whole thing on the horde and throws a pissy fit when Thrall shows up in Dalaran.
Wrynn was a badass in the comics, but as soon as he came back in-game, he turned into a racist/xenophobic prick.
Tolkfan Sep 21st 2009 5:49PM
Wrynn blames the whole Horde and Thrall because they did nothing about the Dreadlord that was 2nd in command in Undercity. They also did nothing about the torture, necromancy and experiments that were conducted in UC for everyone to see. Varian invades UC because he had enough of the Horde's inaction, and then he sees the labs, the body parts hanging from hooks, the whole malice of the Forsaken... the things that Thrall and the rest of the Horde turned a blind eye to. All this resulted in the death of Bolvar and the slaughter at the Wrathgate... what was he supposed to do? Act like Thrall and go "lets just wait and see what happens"?
jealouspirate Sep 21st 2009 5:50PM
@ toxicityj
Why does everyone think that just because it was a 'rogue group' of Forsaken that the Horde don't share even a little blame?
Men under Thrall's leadership tricked him, betrayed him, stole weapons and attacked the Horde and Alliance. Some responsibility does lie with the people who let this happen under their noses. This would be what would happen in the real world.
If a soldier stole and tank and blew civilans up, people wouldn't say "Oh, we understand, it's not the military's fault, it's the guy who stole the tank."
They would say "Who the hell let this happen? Where was security, etc?"
Coik Sep 21st 2009 6:02PM
The way I look at it, Varian may be a toolbox, but at least he has some legitimate gripes with the Horde. Whether they justify his behavior is up for debate, but he has some actual grievances. Garrosh pretty much went from "Cut, cut, cut" to "RRRGGGHH!! ORC SMASH!!!" without going through any intervening stages.
@toxicityj: I keep seeing "rogue faction" in regards to the RAS, but is there any proof of that? I haven't gotten my Horde characters high enough to do Wrathgate, but all we get Alliance side is the word of one Sylvanas Windrunner, saying "Oh, yeah, I totally was betrayed. Almost got killed, in fact. Totally betrayed. Did I mention I almost got killed?" with all the sincerity of a used care salesman who was previously a lawyer and politician. And for some reason, she kept one hand beyond her back, kept crossing her eyes and laughing slightly whenever Thrall mentioned her escape from the Undercity. Do Horde get any additional information?
Killchrono Sep 22nd 2009 3:28AM
@ Tolkfan "Wrynn blames the whole Horde and Thrall because they did nothing about the Dreadlord that was 2nd in command in Undercity."
Then maybe Wrynn should effing say that instead of blabbering on about the Horde being monsters and murderers, and roping in Thrall with the likes of them.
My problem with Wrynn isn't the fact he hates the Horde. He has every right to hate them after everything that's happened. It's the fact he acts like a petulant, whiny child about it. "WAAAH THE ORCS ARE MONSTERS, WAAAH THE ORCS TRIED TO KILL US AT THE WRATH GATE, WAAAAH THE ORCS GOT MAD COS A GNOME SUMMONED A DEMON! KILL THEM ALL!" Note that last example. He gets mad at the Horde and orders his champions to kill them because Garrosh PAYED OUT A GNOME. If that isn't a chip on his shoulder, I don't know what is.
There's nothing stopping Varian from being reasonable, level-headed leader without the whiny bravado. Likewise, he can still hate the Horde, calling them out on the mistakes they've made and the horrible things they've done like the Forsaken Plague and the Broken Front. Yet he completely glosses over the counter-arguements the Horde gives so he can perpetuate his idea that they're savages. He's never once acknowledged that the Horde was ALSO betrayed at the Wrath Gate. This is the most common counter arguement Horde supporters give to why his blaming the Horde is unreasonable, yet he doesn't even acknowledge it. He just went and tried to retake the Undercity and then tried to kill Thrall when he got the chance. Not even once saying ' I hear you, but...' If he just said that, I'd be a happy man.
I'm not saying Varian has no reason to hate the Orcs. But his reasoning is obscured behind his overdone ethos of 'the Horde are savages and must be put down.' If he acted reasonably, then not only would it help his image with the Alliance, but it would make the Horde much harder to counter his position. The only reason Horde continue to defend the events the Wrath Gate and the Broken Front thus far is because they feel Varian is being unreasonable. If Varian approach the Horde's issues with a much more level head, the Horde wouldn't have much room to justify their actions.
Killchrono Sep 22nd 2009 3:42AM
Also, a quick more agreeable comment with Tolkfan's quote from Garrosh in the OP:
"By your "statecraft", you turn the orcs to weaklings, Warchief! We should conquer the humans, who are as nothing -- then send our forces to Northrend to crush the Lich King and his undead army! The Horde should rule all of Azeroth!"
While Rossi did a good job trying to justify Garrosh's actions, to me this sums up why a lot of people hate Garrosh and fear that he's nothing but bad for both the Horde and Alliance - he's a conqueror. His idea of the Horde is so grandoise that he's willing to kill the Alliance races to expand the Horde's might. Not only that, but he thinks so low of the Alliance he thinks they should attack them first before Arthas.
The thing that annoys me most is that quote - perhaps the single most defining aspect of Garrosh's personality - has hardly been elaborated on in-game. They've given him weak reasoning and motive to hate the Alliance and start his petty fights with Thrall. If they emphasised this is what Garrosh was like, at least it would be more defining for his character.
And at least then people like me would feel justified in hating him.
jasonkidd1234 Sep 21st 2009 5:00PM
Garrosh has balls, the balls to take on Thrall, yes, but not the balls to take on Saurfang.
Saurfang KNOWS he is tougher than Garrosh, and with his confidence, I'm sure Garrosh knows that just as well as anybody.
Garrosh is an awesome character. He's not a nice guy, but he's also not an asshole. He's the guy that every good "group" needs, but doesn't really 'want'.
Now, based on Wrathgate, I still think Thrall is more powerful than Garrosh, as Thrall didn't want to kill a young, strong orc, as I'm sure he's smart enough to realize that Garrosh is one of the greatest weapons the horde has, though a little misguided.
I'm seeing Garrosh as becoming a little less extreme as Saurfang "teaches" him. Saurfang is wise and strong, and I think even if Garrosh doesn't show it, he kinda idolizes Saurfang as one of the greatest orcs. Garrosh knows Saurfang and Thrall are both wiser than him, and more or less "better" fighters. Garrosh, considering we have to assume he's a great deal younger than Thrall, will probably surpass both of them, and become one of the more powerful "mortal" characters in the WoW universe, assuming he doesn't get assassinated.
His bloodlust is actually going to help after the Cataclysm. As you can see in the trailers, Ashenvale is the Hordes, and all those lumber resources are the Hordes. It shows he has a great military mind, and in a time where you know there are powerful forces, but can't do anything about it, being able to bolster your forces and hold resources is going to help the horde.
Now, I think Thrall is a better leader, even if he is hesitant.
Really, I think Saurfang is the best possible Leader, he is strong, but not reckless. However, I've got the feeling that he's going to be killed in Icecrown, hopefully by the lich King if by anybody, but maybe taking a nice chunk out of the lich King beforehand. (One can only hope Wyrnn gets killed, but Jaina probably will.)
catharsis80 Sep 21st 2009 5:05PM
I would think most people believe Saurfang would be the best choice. I don't think that will happen simply because Blizzard knows more Alliance would love the Horde. I mean, does anyone actually NOT like Saurfang, including Alliance? (Varian Wrynn worshippers excluded.)
Dreyja Sep 21st 2009 5:01PM
"no, everything his father did turned out to be the right thing to do."
Really? I don't think even he would agree with that. Grom wen to his end with a fair shar of regret. I'm wondering what is going to happen when the change in the time line shakes down. Remember, Mannoroth was killed by Malfurion in the past, during the war of the ancients. Ironic given Grom's killing of Cenarius, no?
One or two redeeming acts don't expunge the blood of so many innocents. Maybe Thrall could have handled bringing Garrosh out of his stupor a bit better. Idealizing everything about Grom... so not a good call.
Dreyja Sep 21st 2009 5:10PM
Man... I too would like to buy an edit button. ;-p
Matthew Rossi Sep 21st 2009 5:23PM
Grom and Thrall might agree with you, Dreyja. But Garrosh isn't subtle, and nuance has always been lost on him. When he blamed his father for the demonic corruption of the orcs and feared himself as his father's son, he never once stopped to think "But then again, no one made everyone else do it". Garrosh's 180 degree turn comes entirely out of his tendency to go to extremes: when he fears his own potential, he refuses to act at all. When he embraces it, he refuses NOT to act.
Dreyja Sep 21st 2009 5:28PM
Granted Matt, but that doesn't make him even the tiniest bit more sympathetic character in my eyes.
It makes me sad for horde players for loosing Thrall's leadership.
joerendous Sep 21st 2009 5:10PM
Drek'Thar to blame you say? My dwarf pally will teach him a lesson every 30-45mins as a favor for the Horde.
DrPestilence Sep 21st 2009 5:10PM
That was Brilliant i Had never looked at Garrosh that way, I play Horde and Allience so Love both sides of the lore, but am bhind on my Horde leveling so thanks : )
Varian still fails ; )
Roam Sep 21st 2009 5:13PM
Iv Allways liked garosh his hot headed temper and agrestion is 100% the horde way garosh will lead us to victory no dout, while thrall acts like a fat cat in his chair. Gorosh go Horde!!
Dreyja Sep 21st 2009 5:16PM
ugh again. You make the horde look bad.
Kanap Sep 21st 2009 6:25PM
I agree with the Dwarf and I'm a Blood elf (not the most wanted or liked horde) but still, your comment is full of spelling errors and well I just don't like it. Also why would you insult your Warchief ?
James D Sep 21st 2009 6:22PM
Found this, I think it summarizes the situation exactly:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=19820879169&sid=1
Astalnar Sep 23rd 2009 4:06PM
I play Horde and from my point of wiew only place for Garrosh is in the bottom of the sea.
I do hate him. Just because of his attitude and his daily stupidities. He never thinks, he just wants war. He should realy get in the mids of battlefield and talk then. For now he is only big talk and no action. If anyone forgot Thrall was one freeing Orccs, he was one destroying Durnholde, he was the one of leaders who fought at Hyal. So before any Garosh enthusiast starts KILL ALL ALLY.... I am on PvP server and enjoy in evry ally I kill, but Garosh is only big mouth. We have never seen him in action, even from quests in Borean we can see that offensive was so succsessful just because of Saurfang. And about Orcs and Horde. Well, Horde has 5 different races and only Garrosh who never fought alliance is so eager to go in war with them. After war there is only destruction, and from history we know whenever horde started a war, they lost it. (war from bloodlust)