Drama Mamas: Dealing
Dodge the drama and become that player everyone wants in their group with the Drama Mamas. Lisa Poisso and Robin Torres are real-life mamas and experienced WoW players -- and just as we don't want our precious babies to be the ones kicking and wailing on the floor of checkout lane next to the candy, neither do we want you to become known as That Guy on your server. We're taking your questions at DramaMamas (at) WoW (dot) com.
This week's drama includes a guild leader who needs to deal with her most negative guildie. We also have a PuG leader who needs to deal with a DPSer who taunts. Let's not deal with any more of this introduction.
The Negative Guy
Dear Drama Mamas: I am an older Guild Leader of a great guild. I have a recent guildie that is completely draining me. He is a complete 'Eeyore' . He came to my guild as a friend of my mom's from another server.
He says 'Never' all the time. He constantly complains he can't win any gear (which he does). He complains about not getting to roll on gear he thought was an upgrade, but it was not (ex: tank gear when he was DPS). He complained he never got to go to Heroics (when he went on two that day and not many guildys were on in the first place). When he gets into groups- he complains he never wins rolls or forecasts he will never win. That is especially draining when someone is saying negative things, right off the start of a run. I talked to him, I gave him specific examples, I tried to let him know his negativity was starting to come across to the guild, and others were weary of it.
He initially had a hunter, but the leveling was slow, so he created a Death Knight at 55 and leveled him to 80 quickly. We ran runs with him, got gear for him, and he would complain that he was never going to level his hunter. When he finally got his hunter to 80, it was like we started all over. His hunter could not come to Ulduar because he was not geared enough, but his DK could. Then he made a comment in Raid chat that he might as well delete his hunter because he was never going to play him at this rate. I finally gave him a Warning.
I know it was a long time coming, and he IS a nice guy, but he just was not 'getting it'. He appeared loot-hungry and negative. I finally said, "Go to where the grass is greener, or quit your complaining." My parents support me if I want to boot him. However I feel I should give a chance to overcome after a warning. He has gotten better, but I think I waited to long to give him the warning, as several guildys do not want to run with him when he asks. What do you recommend? Sincerely, Weary of Woe.
Drama Mama Robin: Weary, I am charmed by your calling this drama king an Eeyore. It shows a compassion
and understanding for someone who is probably very unhappy and not likely to ever change very much. I do not think you waited too long, as you did talk to him before the warning, which I think was the right thing to do. He may be clinically depressed and therefore you are completely unable to help him. Or he may just be attention needy. You are not going to be able to cure him of either or both conditions, regardless of what you do.
However, you may be able to feed his need for attention positively and teach him a bit of a lesson by giving him a teeny bit of responsibility. Get together with some willing guildies and arrange for him to lead a non-essential raid with his hunter – perhaps a 10-man Naxx with alts. Make him learn the strategies, run the raid and deal with any loot drama (with you and the officers as guidance, of course). I see three possible outcomes of this strategy:
Drama Mama Lisa: You know, Weary, the guy may not be complaining -- he may think he's being wry and witty. How did he react when you finally gave him The Talk? Unless he gave you clear signals one way or another at that point, it's worth considering that his complaints may not be as serious as all that, and he simply didn't realize how he was coming across.
At any rate, now that you've had The Talk, the onus is on him. I don't necessarily agree with Robin that you need to push him into the spotlight leading a raid; I think you've done enough. It's up to him now to either pay more attention to how he comes across or pack up his complaints and move on.
But I do wonder where your mom is in all of this? If he came in as her friend, surely she and he have been talking about the situation. I'd think a few well planted words from her -- after all, what are friends for? -- could make a world of difference.
This week's drama includes a guild leader who needs to deal with her most negative guildie. We also have a PuG leader who needs to deal with a DPSer who taunts. Let's not deal with any more of this introduction.
The Negative Guy
Dear Drama Mamas: I am an older Guild Leader of a great guild. I have a recent guildie that is completely draining me. He is a complete 'Eeyore' . He came to my guild as a friend of my mom's from another server.
He says 'Never' all the time. He constantly complains he can't win any gear (which he does). He complains about not getting to roll on gear he thought was an upgrade, but it was not (ex: tank gear when he was DPS). He complained he never got to go to Heroics (when he went on two that day and not many guildys were on in the first place). When he gets into groups- he complains he never wins rolls or forecasts he will never win. That is especially draining when someone is saying negative things, right off the start of a run. I talked to him, I gave him specific examples, I tried to let him know his negativity was starting to come across to the guild, and others were weary of it.
He initially had a hunter, but the leveling was slow, so he created a Death Knight at 55 and leveled him to 80 quickly. We ran runs with him, got gear for him, and he would complain that he was never going to level his hunter. When he finally got his hunter to 80, it was like we started all over. His hunter could not come to Ulduar because he was not geared enough, but his DK could. Then he made a comment in Raid chat that he might as well delete his hunter because he was never going to play him at this rate. I finally gave him a Warning.
I know it was a long time coming, and he IS a nice guy, but he just was not 'getting it'. He appeared loot-hungry and negative. I finally said, "Go to where the grass is greener, or quit your complaining." My parents support me if I want to boot him. However I feel I should give a chance to overcome after a warning. He has gotten better, but I think I waited to long to give him the warning, as several guildys do not want to run with him when he asks. What do you recommend? Sincerely, Weary of Woe.
Drama Mama Robin: Weary, I am charmed by your calling this drama king an Eeyore. It shows a compassion
and understanding for someone who is probably very unhappy and not likely to ever change very much. I do not think you waited too long, as you did talk to him before the warning, which I think was the right thing to do. He may be clinically depressed and therefore you are completely unable to help him. Or he may just be attention needy. You are not going to be able to cure him of either or both conditions, regardless of what you do.However, you may be able to feed his need for attention positively and teach him a bit of a lesson by giving him a teeny bit of responsibility. Get together with some willing guildies and arrange for him to lead a non-essential raid with his hunter – perhaps a 10-man Naxx with alts. Make him learn the strategies, run the raid and deal with any loot drama (with you and the officers as guidance, of course). I see three possible outcomes of this strategy:
- It will be a terrible experience and he'll blame everyone else but himself. Thank him for his efforts and express regrets that your guild is not a good fit for him. You gave him plenty of chances and notice, so please do not feel guilty for removing this funsucker from your life in Azeroth.
- It will be a terrible experience, but he will get a better appreciation of what you and your officers do and how his negativity affects things. It will be up to you to monitor how much of an improvement in his behavior will warrant his continuance in the guild.
- He'll reveal promising leadership skills, run regular alt raids, and get attention for his positive aspects rather than his negative antics. While this may seem a particularly optimistic outcome, it is well within the realm of possibility. People tend to live up or down to your expectations.
Drama Mama Lisa: You know, Weary, the guy may not be complaining -- he may think he's being wry and witty. How did he react when you finally gave him The Talk? Unless he gave you clear signals one way or another at that point, it's worth considering that his complaints may not be as serious as all that, and he simply didn't realize how he was coming across.
At any rate, now that you've had The Talk, the onus is on him. I don't necessarily agree with Robin that you need to push him into the spotlight leading a raid; I think you've done enough. It's up to him now to either pay more attention to how he comes across or pack up his complaints and move on.
But I do wonder where your mom is in all of this? If he came in as her friend, surely she and he have been talking about the situation. I'd think a few well planted words from her -- after all, what are friends for? -- could make a world of difference.
Filed under: Warrior, Analysis / Opinion, WoW Social Conventions, Virtual selves, Drama Mamas







Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
efrdman2008 Sep 25th 2009 7:24PM
Ok, really don't mind reading these Posts. I really don't. But I feel like you trivialize things when you talk about the fact that you are "mommas" ALL THE TIME! I get it, you think it is witty and cute, but to be honest, we get it, you two are parents who like to play WoW. But that doesn't mean you know the answer to guild drama questions!
I am not saying the advice is bad, actually I happen to think it is usually great advice. But instead of calling yourself"Drama Mamma Lisa" Just say Lisa! It would make the whole column seem a lot more proffesional.
Jimmy Sep 25th 2009 11:54PM
I have to agree, I love the column, and I Love the other works Robbin does outside wow.com, but every time I see that word a little part of my heart dies for an unexpected reason.
Ascudgamin Sep 26th 2009 12:10AM
I also have to agree... the advice is great... but the whole "I'm a mom who plays wow" isn't all that special... I think I know more parents that play wow than teenagers and young adults...
Failtankadin Sep 25th 2009 7:45PM
Race change up on World of Warcraft site now
Virgoninja Sep 25th 2009 7:48PM
He's complaining that he doesn't win gear yet his DK is geared to run Ulduar. Makes no sense.
Have him lead a raid? LOL. Wouldn't that be more punishment than reward? If he can't stand losing rolls on loot, how will he handle GIVING loot away? Especially if he rolls on a piece that he lost, then has to give it to someone else. Damn, he might just delete that hunter afterall.
You should tell him the game isn't just about LOOT--it's about camaraderie. Being a good team player and not always getting what you want, but enjoying others have theirs. Also, the game is based on mitigated chance, hence "how the dice rolls". Statistically it's impossible to NEVER win anything.
ToyChristopher Sep 25th 2009 8:03PM
Please rename you column. I hate the name and someone who is a drama mama would actually excel at creating drama rather than solving it wouldn't they?
theproudDK Sep 25th 2009 8:45PM
/gkick him nuff said
(PS. I died a little inside when she mentioned that he switched to a Death Knight.)
danawhitaker Sep 25th 2009 10:53PM
Just wait until the Eeyore of your guild is the on again/off again long-distance girlfriend of your guild leader. Then you can really have fun. If I hear one more complaint about someone else in our guild winning a brewfest mount (after this person already got the brewfest mount achievement using hops and doesn't care about collecting mounts and will be the first person in our guild to have the 310% violet protodrake in a few days), I swear to the gods I'll have to resist the urge to gkick.
Deadly. Off. Topic. Sep 28th 2009 11:38AM
Seems kind of odd to roll on it if they don't "actually" care. People have been also known to change their minds as well.
But yeah, can't say much on that if they're just rolling on it to be jerks though.
Seaborn Sep 26th 2009 12:12AM
When I started reading this I was going along the first part and actually was interested in the subject. Then I had to do a double take but sure enough it I did read it right.
"My parents support me if I want to boot him."
I don't know about anyone else, but that is the absolute last thing I want to hear come out of a GM. At one point in my WoW career I was in what I thought was a solid raiding guild. After a few weeks of raiding 4-5 nights a week, the GM didn't show for any of the raids for a week. No one could get a hold of him, no answer to mail, nothing. Then after a week, pOOf he was back. He apologized and told everyone that he couldn't log on because his mom grounded him for a week because she caught him awake at 11pm still on the computer playing WoW.
Phaea Sep 26th 2009 1:12AM
It's a friend of his mom's, meaning that if he boots the guy it could potentially affect the friendship with the mother. He's not just an unruly teenager needing support from mommy and daddy. They're giving their support because they're apparently ok with whatever consequences the friendship will suffer.
Rhino Sep 26th 2009 1:35AM
A hunter was too hard for him to play so he makes a DK?
Boot him. It really is that simple.
Aureliusz Sep 26th 2009 3:08AM
This.
Jon Sep 26th 2009 6:36AM
If leveling a hunter to 80 takes you forever, perhaps it's time to go back to Tetris
Raenz Sep 27th 2009 7:00AM
Having been an officer of a fairly succesful casual raiding guild (in TBC, t5 cleared pre 3.0) I honsetly think the best advise you could have given this guy is to just kick him. People such as this are poisen for a guild, even more so for smaller more social guilds. They lower guild moral, and start a trend of exclusion and cliques forming where there may not have been one before. Asside from the fact that the guy obviously cant play (therefore cant really be an assest to your raid team).
TLDR - Kick him and be done with it
Weary of Woe Sep 28th 2009 2:04PM
Well, I am that GM. I am almost 40, so it was not an issue of permissions from the parents, but the issue of upsetting them for kicking a Real Life Friend. Also, he was really that depressing, and not trying to be witty. When I gave him the talk, he felt I was picking on him, on an aspect of his personality he could not change.
As for the questions, my issue was/is, noone even really wants to group with the guy, Let alone let him lead a raid where 9 more people need to go. Noone joined his raid- and he has tried a few times. Noone answers him. I told him why, told him he was bringing people down and people were weary of grouping with him, and he said well thats the way he was, and he couldn't change that. I told him he could stay how he was, as long as he didn't bring us down.
So an update, He has had issues with several other guilds (lol go figure) , so really appreciates this one. and although he says he will never get everything he wants, this is the best guild he has ever been in, so he is trying. Still, noone will join his groups, but every now and then he will get in with someone else's group. He has toned down his negativity considerably, but it still eeeks out every now and then. Definately much improved, and he is starting to build his reputation to a better one. Time will tell, and I will not be so patient next time. PS the calling him Eeyore seems to help.