Officers' Quarters: Ragequit fallout
by Scott Andrews 
Oct 5th 2009 at 1:00PM
Every Monday Scott Andrews contributes Officers' Quarters, a column about the ins and outs of guild leadership.
If you've played WoW long enough, and if you've raided enough, odds are you've wanted to quit your guild right in the middle of a run at some point. Some people actually go through with it. I'll never forget the night many years ago when our raid's main tank quit the guild and zoned out of Onyxia's Lair while he was tanking the boss. Yeah, that guy had some anger issues . . .
But what happens when a guild leader ragequits in the middle of a raid? Read on to find out!
Hi Scott,
A friend and I started a guild about 5 months back. I assumed the Co-Gm role, led the raids and recruited quite a bit. After a slow start we ended up making an impact on the server as a stand up crew and were moving into the top rankings for 10 and cracking the 25 man progression as well. The other Co-Gm was very good at handling issues and I admit that was not my strong point. Things worked really well until unfortunately I had an "EMO" moment.
Real life stress crept into my enjoyment of WoW. Coincidentally issues started arising as to the direction the guild should head. We had 2 10 man raids into Ulduar and 2 nights of 25 man raiding (ToC and Ulduar). What I had been doing is moving one of the 10 Man Ulduar groups into ToC and pushing 10 Ulduar clear with the other group. This led to some jealousy and complaining and my co-gm who is great at handling these issues conspicuously became absent after bringing up the discussion. So ensues the drama.
The main issue is that the group that was focusing Ulduar contained 4 members from our sister guild that we had been working with from the beginning when we did not have as many members. In vent some of the disgruntled were bashing this group. The sister guild is a 4 member guild and they are a family. This setup was preferred by the father so their younger daughter wasn't exposed to some of the crude maturer aspects of the game. However the "father" of our sister guild heard his daughter being bashed out of jealousy in vent and I became very upset that this discussion was not being held privately with me or the other officers of the guild. 2 of the guildies also did not want to run ToC as it was too difficult and did not want us picking up pugs to fill out our 25 man raids that were starting to feel some effects from the back to school blues. They wanted to solely run 10 Ulduar. They also said they had discussed this with the other GM over the last 3 hours and she agreed.
The night this all occured was our 10 man ulduar run with the sister guild. Acquiescing to the complaints I decided I would take guildies only on a ten man Ulduar run. I was however boiling at the disrespect shown to some very reliable players and friends. Combine this with the fact that one of the main complaintants regularly signs up and does not show up for raids and the other frequently needs to leave the raid early only to remain online. I was mad, I should've controlled myself better but on top of the stress from real life and now stress from the guild I exploded during the run.
I messaged my co-gm that i didn't appreciate the maelstrom I stepped into that I felt she was a party to. I told her that if we weren't going to focus on progression, which in my opinion was ToC and 25 man content, that I would be leaving the guild. Her response naturally was very curt as I was and I proceeded to gquit after we downed the next boss. Half of the members agreed with me about the guildies being out of line but no one including myself thinks my gquit was justified.
I committed the ultimate sin in quitting during a raid, although it was a pause. Thinking rationally and not being emo, I realize I threw away a very good thing and deeply regret it. The guild subsequently disbanded with the co-gm and the complaintants starting a new guild. I had come to the conclusion that I should retire from wow as I was perceiving wow as being stressful as opposed to the RL issues I was tackling. Combined with everything just being a huge misunderstanding and my eventual overreaction.
Subsequently I have decided to come back (it really was just a weekend off). In your opinion should the guild forgive me and reunite? How could I go about rebuilding their trust that was completely shattered by my 1 emo moment that ultimately led to the dissolving of the guild. I have gotten half of the members back but the other half appears to be holding a grudge, although they are not outwardly hostile to me there clearly are some very hard feelings (not wanting me to have the new vent password or refusing to pick me up if they are spamming for more to fill out their raids, and yes they are using pug's...). The co-gm and her new guild (she is not running raids just enjoying logging and killing things) seem to be enjoying themselves but I know everyone would be happy if we reformed. I would even volunteer to not be in charge as punishment for my one moment of weakness.
Sincerely,
Emo Raid Leader
PS I do know what I did is the ultimate wrong and I have apologized profusely and have requested forgiveness from every member. Unfortunately the one lapse in judgement supersedes 99% of the great job I did and fun everyone had as the guild progressed.
Hi, ERL. You definitely did not do anyone a favor by the way you acted. However, I think you are being a bit hard on yourself. You had a reason to be angry. Your co-guild leader made a huge decision without consulting you. I don't know what sort of arrangement you had with her. As the raid leader, it seems to me that you should have been an important part of any discussion about the direction of the guild's raiding. Combined with the Vent drama, I don't blame you for being upset.
Still, as you admit, you handled the situation poorly. It's never a good idea to make a major decision when you're in a state of heightened emotion, whether you're a guild leader or a new recruit. I understand that you wanted to get away from the guild for a while, but simply logging off would have been far less damaging to the guild than quitting. I doubt that it would have endeared you to your members, but coming back the next day and apologizing could have kept the guild together. Then you could have had a reasonable discussion with your co-leader about your raiding situation, handled the Vent drama in a constructive way, and moved on as a guild.
Instead, your guild fell apart. You want to do you best to make it right, and I respect that. You will have to eat some crow here. You need to approach the situation both humbly and delicately. You can't push too hard. If someone doesn't want to come back, respect their decision.
Whether or not your former members forgive you is up to them. I honestly don't see a point in holding a grudge, although I can understand if they just don't want to associate with you anymore.
The faith of your former members in you has been greatly diminished, so your best option would be to organize the guild under another leader. Speak to the players you trust and find someone who would make a good candidate that's willing to give it another try. That person should be the one to go about recruiting the old crew. You should stay out of the spotlight, as a member but not an officer.
Realize, however, that the person you ask to lead the guild may institute policies that you don't agree with 100%. You can make suggestions, but ultimately you will have to live with his or her decisions. It's possible, in the future, after you've proven that you can stay calm and rational, that you'll be able to carry out more of a leadership role. For now, however, you need to let others run the show.
It sounds like, with the exception of some bad apples, the guild worked well together. With any luck, most former members will be eager to return. You probably won't get everyone back, and you may have to add some new players.
On your end, the most important part of this whole mess is that you forgive yourself. We all make mistakes, particularly when we're feeling stressed and wronged. You can't beat yourself up over this one terrible moment forever. Apologize and then move on. Hopefully, everyone else will, too.
/salute
Send Scott your guild-related questions, conundrums, ideas, and suggestions at scott.andrews@weblogsinc.com. You may find your question the subject of next week's Officers' Quarters!Filed under: Officers' Quarters (Guild Leadership)
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
revan Oct 5th 2009 1:09PM
Emo Raid Leader...
i lol'd
Kurdaj Oct 5th 2009 1:33PM
I think it's a shame that this game has such a strong compulsory element. Guildies treat you like garbage? Man up. Players getting bullied? Pffft, it isn't you. Raids not even advancing to new content? Shut up and collect your loot.
There's such a strong undercurrent of hostility I've picked up in many professional raiding guilds and even in the pug groups. "Mature adults don't quit in the middle of a raid." Yea well mature adults don't do the things that the raid leader quit over. This game, and the players who constitute this game, need to allow their raid leaders to walk away when the fun evaporates. The players ought to feel empowered to walk away when the fun disappears. Scientists ought to study this game to understand why women stay with abusive husbands.
I'm playing the "this is a game" card. Even in guilds with people in it I know down the street, I never stayed when it was apparent the guild was dysfunctional. I sometimes left guilds that were perfectly functional, but filled with jerk players - like that ninja-Rogue that the Raid Leader sided with, even knowing it was a ninja.
TL;DR
This is a game.
If it isn't fun, there should be a policy of "no fault" gquit.
Sorcefire Oct 5th 2009 1:58PM
I'm going to hijack the 1st post too and agree with Kurdaj. Guilds evolved as a social mechanism in a game (or games if you count the predecessors) that didn't lend itself to social involvement. From that came the massive guilds of the pre-BC era that dominated the servers and post-BC came the more "casual" guilds we all know and loathe today.
Kurdaj has hit the nail on the head that when the game is no longer fun and the focus is solely on winning then it's time to quit (unless you like that kind of abuse). None of us are paid millions to play professionally so there's no reason to put up with the drama.
TL;DR - not fun anymore? stop playing, go home, and read a good book. :)
Rob Oct 5th 2009 2:28PM
@ Kur
I agree, that's always been my policy. Is the game fun? If not, why? We're going through simliar stress, we're a big guild now, doing some raiding, doing 25s w other guilds, trying to get a second raid group going. That's a ton of stress for me (i am co-GL and RL of 2nd team). ...Anyway this stuff isn't exactly fun. So i've been logging into a dift server starting fresh, that's very nice as I dont know a soul on that server (well except one kind person).
But yeah if you arent having fun, if it becomes more of a second job, i'd wow quit or take a break at the least.
Clbull Oct 5th 2009 2:47PM
I agree 100% with what Kurdaj said.
I am an officer/raid leader of a guild which has currently downed 9/14 Ulduar-10. Trying to progress even further to Trial of the Crusader and even 25 mans like Ulduar is hard, especially when you're in a situation where you're slightly low on members for 25 mans.
Raid/Guild leadership is stressful, especially when you get situations where raid members (particularly pugged ones) act like jerks and leave a raid the moment they see a wipe.
JBluntz Oct 5th 2009 4:34PM
Sorry, I'm coming down on the other side of the fence on this one. I totally agree with the 'it's a game, not a job' angle; if you're not having fun, you need to reevaluate your playstyle or your decision to play at all.
HOWEVER, raiding is a team sport; there are 9 (or 24) other people that you made a commitment to when you signed up to raid, and even more so for a raid leader. What would people say if you were on a basketball team and you got fed up with some people's loose talk and just walked off the court, mid-game? What if your team captain did it? That kind of behavior doesn't fly in real life, either.
I think even ERL recognizes what he did was wrong; why do you defend it? Even he understands that he was contributing to the drama, not avoiding it. You seem to imply that 'no-fault gquit' includes any time, anywhere, under any circumstances; personally, that sounds pretty selfish to me.
I apologize if I sound overly harsh; one of my biggest pet peeves is the different standard of behavior that we seem to have behind the veil of anonymity provided by the internet...
theRaptor Oct 5th 2009 6:03PM
JBluntz I would understand the team co-captain storming off the court if some of the other players were openly talking shit about some of the other players and the other co-captain undermined the first captains authority and made a major decision without consultation. WoW players are only human and sometimes due to shit in game and shit IRL they can get so angry they do that kind of stuff.
Hell I have nearly rage quit a couple of times recently because there are some douchebags in my guilds that I can't do anything about. There is only so much disrespect people can take before it isn't worth their time to keep playing.
That said personally I would have banned the shit talkers from vent and told them to stfu or find another guild. Shitheads are easy to replace.
It may have been wrong but it was completely understandable (just like punching some of these shitheads in the face IRL).
shineymcshine79 Oct 5th 2009 7:57PM
@theRaptor:
You really have an overt fondness for the word "shit", don't you? Lol! I agree though, some people I have come across in this game in particular, I have just wanted to strangle. People think that just because we can't see each other, that entitles them to a free "be rude to everyone" licence. It's, quite honestly, dispicable.
vern Oct 5th 2009 1:13PM
What is done is done.
This is why it is better to just pull the plug from your PC and go out for a movie or a drink.
But I really mean turn off the PC directly, even during a raid.
Sleep over it a couple of days and come back. Pretend your ISP has been crappy for a couple of days and all is fine and you had a couple of days off the game. Emotional decisions are the worst. It is always better to sleep over them a couple of days. If things are still bad the same then it is the right decision to bail.
K Oct 5th 2009 1:16PM
A couple of days.
What he said.
Clevins Oct 5th 2009 1:21PM
No. It's never the right decision to bail in a raid and pulling the plug or making fake excuses is for immature kids. Get through the raid. Take some time off and just say "Hey, I need some time off, not raiding this week." Don't pull the plug, lie about your ISP or any of that juvenile crap - stand up, be an adult. Jeez....
Deadly. Off. Topic. Oct 5th 2009 1:47PM
Sometimes though, you just HAVE to "d/c" though - it's NOT about being an adult or not. And yes that is selfish, but for self-preservation, it's the only way otherwise you end up yelling at people.
I remember a guild run that had me in tears so that I was forced to shut my computer down - something I never did before. And you want to know why? The guild people were being selfish assholes. They knew my main was a tank and I had successfully tanked several instances for them. But they wanted a healer and when they couldn't get one they started claiming that I "sucked" on tanking and that I was suppose to heal for them instead. This is after I saved them from several bad pulls their hunter and "main" warrior tank would often made. They went so far as to lie to (what was my best friend at the time) so that she "could break it easy" for me that I "couldn't tank".
Now, why would I want to stay in a run to heal for people who lied to me just to get me to heal for them. The next day I left that guild and immediately was asked to join a guild who valued my tanking skills and who had seen me in action. The funny thing is, my so called best friend will now ask me to tank instances for her... and admits that she was lied to by the guild .
I had already lost it at that point, so sticking around would have done what for me? Get me guilted and lied to more? No thanks. I rather be considered a child and have my mental health in tact than be forced to help ungrateful jerks through 3 hours of my time.
vern Oct 5th 2009 2:07PM
On the contrary ! Shutting down the PC and putting your absence on the ISP's account is a very mature thing to do. The alternative is bursting out during the raid and being miserable. And make no mistake, this is a one time thing. You'd lose credibility if you do this every other week.
It is a big deal to leave your guild, a guild in which you may have invested countless hours. Taking 2 days off the game to cool down is the best thing you can do. No emotional decision. This is certainly not a juvenile decision, specially if you are an officer of the guild.
Hansbo Oct 5th 2009 2:22PM
@Clevins
I disagree. The need for a cooldown is not juvenile at all, it is rather very human. Have you ever been in a relationship and become so angry that you either walk away for a couple of hours or stand there and say things which you will ultimately regret for a long time? It's the exact same mechanic.
If you're angry enough, you WILL do and say things you don't want to say. This exists in ALL human beings, regardless of age. If you reach that point of anger or frustration, just logging off is the best way to deal with it. And if you feel that people wont understand your reasons (many people seem to lack a certain understanding about how people actually work), why not just lie about it?
After all, it's a victimless lie.
Bravofox Oct 5th 2009 2:36PM
I have to agree. Sorry to say, but indeed this is a game. If this were a job I would say you need to stick with it, and deal with it later. However, this IS a game. If at any point it is not fun, you should (and do have by all means) the right to say, "Guys I am out. Maybe next time."
I think all too often people forget that this is an escape from real-life (for most of us). Now I will say that I do try to make a situation fly...but I refuse to argue at some point.
And for all of those players that don't agree with me, and take the game a bit too seriously..... while you are trying to point out that WoW is important and how it is serious buis... **Bravofox quickly types /camp ** (hard to argue with that)
Rich Oct 5th 2009 3:01PM
my Mental health > your phat lootz
Sometimes you just have to walk away in the middle of a raid. Is it a good thing to habitually? No. Is it something that has to be done sometimes? Definately.
JKWood Oct 5th 2009 3:43PM
I don't think you have to lie, necessarily. Unplug your router, then say it was a power failure. No lie, just not the whole truth, and you can be busy for a couple days. Again, no need to lie when you need a break.
Zanathos Oct 5th 2009 3:51PM
It certainly looks like this situation would have been improved by a plug pull. Personally, I would think it to be better still to make an excuse and leave so your group isn't waiting around to see if you're coming back. But both are preferable to Clevin's suggestion, as sticking around and toughing it out is what caused the letter writer to snap.
Miri Oct 5th 2009 6:33PM
@Clevins
I've done the whole "I need a break" thing when I got burned out from raiding 5-6 days a week in BC, for over 6 months straight--to the point that I planned holidays/leave/personal engagements around my guild's needs. When I was getting ready to come back, my guild officers held a coup d'état and the guild fell apart that weekend. We were solid performers in the top teens of progression on our realm. The members who /gquit formed up into another guild that lasted roughly a month...soon thereafter the mass exodus via server transfers happened.
Based on past experience, I'd recommend just pulling the plug and walking away. I've done it in raids in Wrath when I just can't take the piss-poor players wiping to stupid stuff any longer (from previous solid performers in the same group). No one has to know but you, and I'm sure there's someone out there very willing to fill the group's empty spots.
Tovin Oct 5th 2009 11:56PM
@ Hansbo
A victimless lie? When the person/people you lied to find out you lied, just ask them if they consider it a victimless lie...
Sounds like a good way to lose even more trust to me.