Ask Mr. Robot
Simulators for WoW are nothing new -- Rawr, for instance, has been around for years, and is steadily snowballing into a one-stop shop for simulating all classes (it's not there yet, but I still love it). In case you're scratching your head at this point, a simulator is like a spreadsheet, but much smarter -- instead of using some general approximations to calculate how your gear is going to change your DPS, it basically goes ahead and plays a model version of the game for you. Edit: apparently Rawr is not a simulator -- it uses formulas that come up with the same answer every time, much like spreadsheets. We still love it anyway.
What is new about the simulator I want to talk about today, which seems to be entitled "Mr. Robot," is that it runs on the web, in Microsoft's Silverlight framework (Silverlight seems to have come about because someone at MS saw Flash and decided they wanted one too). This means it's cross-platform and there's nothing to install (well, except Silverlight, but you may have that already). They're only doing sims for Death Knights right now, but the team says more classes are coming (I hear Warlock is next, but don't quote me).
It's pretty nifty, and putting a simulator on the web is a great idea. Loading your character from the armory is a breeze, as is configuring what buffs to test with and customizing your gear. It has a great display of how much it thinks any given piece of new gear will improve your character. And for the very-beta state it's currently in, it's a great piece of software (it was developed in a hurry for a Silverlight competition).
That's not to say, of course, that I don't have some problems with it. The UI takes some getting used to, but it's actually surprisingly usable. A bigger issue is that I don't really trust the numbers it's putting out. My DK may not be the most geared in the world (my raid tends to need my tank or healer more), but I'm pretty sure he puts out more than 2.9k DPS self-buffed.
One source of error may lie in the rotation system. Correct me if I'm wrong, people who know how the site works, but it appears that Mr. Robot literally uses a rotation to choose what abilities your character uses in the simulator. This is pretty old-fashioned - at this point, the theorycrafting for most classes uses a priority list to choose abilities, not a fixed rotation. However, Mr. Robot does get points for having a cool rotation editor.
By the way, the app itself is not going to be open-source (like Rawr is), but Team Robot promises to make the formulas involved "open to the community for debate," so we can tear them apart in best Elitist Jerks tradition.
I also need the app to output stat weightings for it to be very useful to me. Here's my gear theorycrafting workflow: load up my character in a simulator or spreadsheet, configure if necessary, get stat weightings, import them into Pawn. Now I can quickly see in game whether a given piece of gear is an upgrade for me, and if so, how much. Before you knowledgeable people start glaring at me, I know stat weightings change as your gear changes. That's why I generate new weightings every time I get new gear. It's still easier than tabbing out of game to compare every item I come across.
Overall, though, it's a very cool project, and when it starts to mature, it may provide some worthy competition in the WoW theorycrafting space.
Filed under: Classes, Death Knight
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Reader Comments (Page 2 of 3)
t0xic Oct 7th 2009 4:57PM
RAWR runs on the .NET platform IIRC. There is a parallel project for Linux called mono. Whether you can get mono to run on OS X or not, I have no idea. Google if you're interested.
Mike Oct 7th 2009 4:59PM
Mono is thus far only .NET 1.0-capable, unlikely that they would stick to such old libraries with Rawr, and the Mac version is very much unstable. However, like I said, I'll try it on my Windows computer later on.
Alchemistmerlin Oct 7th 2009 5:02PM
You just compared operating system-specific projects to racism.
Wow.
Mike Oct 7th 2009 5:04PM
I was obviously speaking on a different scale...
t0xic Oct 7th 2009 5:07PM
Mike just needs a hug. He's working too hard like the rest of us =)
Mike Oct 7th 2009 5:09PM
Actually if you saw the problem I've been working on all day... Anyone ever done a numerical partial derivative algorithm where the number of variables isn't known until run-time?
Fanon Oct 7th 2009 5:43PM
Ignorance - "The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed."
You assume the developers of Rawr are either uneducated, unaware, or uninformed that WoW is available on multiple platforms. I assume they didn't want to put forth the work to write it in a portable language for multiple platforms. Hardly something to get huffy about.
I tell you what... you build a cross-platform version of Rawr. Then, feel free to bitch about it.
Chris A Oct 8th 2009 4:10AM
I understand what u are saying, because I'm a mac user myself. It would simple for developers to simply say what platform it's for. But I've learned to just assume it's for windows and am happy to see a mac version.
Bacon Oct 8th 2009 5:43AM
I don't know about you but as long as you don't use mono 2.4 Rawr works fine for me, a little slow but that is when you go make dinner. It's clunky to navigate to rawr through terminal but once you get is down it really isn't a big deal.
Larry Oct 7th 2009 4:35PM
I tried it out and it just takes me to the forums instead of the application :(
Offspring Oct 7th 2009 4:43PM
Did you click on the "Load" button? That will pull up a menu for you to either use the test DK (Swol) or to allow you to check your own DK.
Yellowsix Oct 7th 2009 4:49PM
Hey there -- I'm the main developer for the Ask Mr. Robot website. Just thought I'd clear a few things up:
Firstly, it does indeed seem to have trouble with the armory at times... I'll be looking into that today. I don't know if it's my server, or if the armory thinks I'm trying to spam it and is blocking me, or what.
@Wither: I chose silverlight because I like the .NET framework and C# -- it's a pretty good programming language and development platform. Give silverlight a chance, it has promise!
@Mike: silverlight is a pretty standard plug-in for your browser, just like flash... I wouldn't be too concerned about using it on a mac. I test the site on a mac quite often, and I've had no problems.
Thanks for taking the time to check it out Eliah. And about stat weights: I have a good idea for how to make an in-game mod that can integrate with our simulator's DPS estimations -- when I have time to actually do it... it should serve the same purpose that Pawn is serving for you right now.
Eliah Hecht Oct 7th 2009 4:52PM
Hey Yellowsix, thanks for stopping by. And for the neat tool :)
The Armory does throttle requests (or did, at some point), so you might be running afoul of whatever their limit is.
As for Pawn, why reinvent the wheel? Just make Mr. Robot output Pawn weighting strings and we can all be friends. I am, however, curious to know how you're thinking of making an in-game mod that can talk to a web-based simulator.
Leelad Oct 7th 2009 4:52PM
RAWR confuses me hugely. It tells me that I should be putting out 6k+ DPS...4-4.5k on a 10man boss is tops for me. Does it work on 25man buffage?
Seems like a bit of a big difference in numbers. I wonder what the difference will be on this lovely looking thing. Just need some Ret pally action.
Eliah Hecht Oct 7th 2009 4:53PM
The output from Rawr is, I believe, a theoretical maximum given your gear, spec, and buffs. Your real DPS will always be lower due to latency, human error, having to move around during a boss fight, etc.
Leelad Oct 7th 2009 5:00PM
Makes sense! Never thought about that to be fair.
Pretty daft but i never realised how much of an affect my seemingly low ping has on the game until I was trying to get my violet drake mashing buttons for the ram racing! a friend with a 30ms lower ping was able to pick up on average 8 more tokens a day.
Yellowsix Oct 7th 2009 5:06PM
It is my understanding that RAWR does not do a "simulation" -- as Eliah said, it uses more of a mathematical formula that averages everything out.
Our website is an actual "simulator" -- it doesn't try to guess at most things, it actually reproduces what the game would do (though thankfully much more quickly!).
Maybe I can get the attention of someone on one of the wow forums about what I should do concerning the armory... maybe that can raise the cap for my site if I convince them that I'm reputable, or else I might explore a different technique for connecting.
Once we iron out the initial bugs here, I'll take a peek at what Pawn does -- maybe it's pretty easy to come up with stat weights compatible with it. Basically my idea for a similar mod was to use our quick-estimation item-ranking technique within a warcraft mod. It relies on a cached set of a few thousands numbers (would fit easily into a lua file), and it will actually adjust depending on your current stats and gear. As long as it isn't too tedious to get your character's stats in-game, and figure out what set bonuses and stuff you have equipped, it would be a very simple mod.
cyber Oct 7th 2009 7:32PM
Actually, Rawr 3 is a Silverlight based web application as well... Still in beta, but works quite well.
apocynum Oct 8th 2009 4:44AM
Oh thank God. Please please please make it something like that. Even on Boot Camp with XP SP3 (which I installed just in an effort to make RAWR run) I could never get past a loading screen error.
Caspian Oct 7th 2009 7:47PM
Opera — this browser is not compatible with Silverlight.
Screw you, silly Microsoft. -.-'