Telling a story without quest text

But I can see Tyl's friend's point: games are much less about telling these days and more about showing. You might understand how, if you've never played an MMO before, reading the quest text can take you right out of the game, rather than running off with an NPC or having the game show you rather than just tell you what to do. And Blizzard is getting there: later in the thread Slorkuz points out the recent Afrasiabi interview, and talks about how Alex mentions new ways of doing quests. For example, the quest team is trying to do a quest with no text, or direct players' attention without actually telling them, "look here." Text is the easiest and most basic way to help players accomplish goals, but as the game moves on, even the developers realize it's not the most elegant or immersive way to do it.
Filed under: Odds and ends, Quests, Lore, NPCs
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Reader Comments (Page 3 of 5)
Captn Obvious Oct 9th 2009 2:45PM
I think you have misinterpreted.
This isn't an argument about how easy the quests are but the method used for telling the story.
Plastic Rat Oct 10th 2009 1:55PM
@Captain Obvious
Actually I think he's making a point about how everyone wants everything done for them. Now it's at the point where they don't even have the patience to read a few lines of text.
It's a freakin' RPG people. Basic literacy required. It's not an arcade shoot-em-up.
I don't go and whine to people that I hate having to press the button repeatedly on a shoot-em-up game. It's part of the genre, part of the game, deal with it or go and fine a game type that does fit with you.
I'm getting sick of people that feel this game's entire genre needs to be modified to suit their tastes. Especially when those tastes come about through sheer laziness.
Honestly, this game is starting to epitomize the term 'victim of its own success'.
Arashikou Oct 9th 2009 1:42PM
What if I just like a good experience? I don't care if that comes through quest text (the clever creation of which to evoke a story can be an art in its own right) or a scripted event. I just want to feel like I'm part of the world and get a good story, and I've had both methods work for me in WoW. And I've had both methods fail for me in WoW.
If showing instead of telling works better for other people, fine. I don't care the form it comes in. I don't see the letters on the page or the pixels on the screen. I just want it - whatever IT is - to be good.
Charles Oct 9th 2009 1:53PM
This is still a roleplaying game, and just about every game in the genre forces a bit of reading on the gamer. Certainly, it'd be nice to play the game every once in a while without having to stop and open up your questlog, but in a counter, many of the quests have really fascinating stories if you just sit down and read them through. Sometimes they're full of hilarious pop culture references and sometimes they're ways to immerse the gamer in WoW's lore without them even doing any extra research.
I dunno. Maybe it's because I'm a reader, but if you're too lazy to take ten seconds to read over a quest--a quest that you might get much more out of than merely the directions to complete it--then perhaps this isn't the genre for you. I don't understand why people come to this game thinking it's not like every other boring rpg they've played in their lives where reading was the highest skill required. I mean, of course it has it's very solid differences, but I mean, come on.
I understand that not every quest is exciting and many are repetitive. It still only takes about five seconds to figure out where to go and what to do and then you're on your way. For me, I've been reading quests in their entirety since I picked up the game, and I've been server first to 70 and 80. Leveling as a healer. Don't act like it's a big hindrance.
Lemons Oct 9th 2009 1:54PM
I've tried reading quest text...hoping that maybe reading each NPC's long winded tale would add an extra dimension to the game, but it really doesn't. I got bored and stopped.
Most of the time it's just some random Goblin giving you his life story which happens to culminate in the dire need for 10 buzzard wings...
"As a young goblin I always wanted to be a zeppelin operator...it was my dream to soar amongst the clouds and touch them as they drifted by...finally I was accepted into Nosedive's Learnatorium for the Zeppelin Piloting Inclined at the age of 7, that's 21 in goblin years. I couldn't believe I was so close to my dream-"
"HOLY SHIT...WHAT IS YOUR QUEST!?"
"Umm...get me 4 boar lungs."
Byrd Oct 9th 2009 1:55PM
I've always liked single player RPG type games like the Baldur's gate series and even Planescape Torment (my all time favorite) because they focused on the story. Something about the quest text makes it jarringly different (and less immersive) than the single RPG experience.
On the other hand, I guess it does make it much more easier to find quests if there is some NPC with a big question mark above their heads on your map...
Adamanthis Oct 9th 2009 2:01PM
I've noticed that too. There is something I can't put my finger on about the way this game handles quest text that I dislike compared to other games, even ones with reams of text.
Adamanthis Oct 9th 2009 3:50PM
I think I've figured out what it is. In old, single player RPG games, there was usually action setting up the quest. You chase off the brigands attacking the centaur, he thanks you, and sets you on a quest in an organic fashion. In WoW, the equivalent quest usually invovles the centaur standing there, telling you: "I was recently attacked by brigands. Yadah yadah yadah, go kill some brigands."
Part of what makes the quest dialogues a bit tedious is that they need to recount pretty much everything, since we are shown nothing. We don't see the trolls stealing the gnome's tools and running off. If we did, the gnome would only need a sentence or two to engage our services while conveying the same amount of story. Sometimes, a picture IS worth a thousand words.
I'd be surprised if what the designers mean is really a quest with no text at all, with NPCs pointing at mobs and gesticulating wildly (though this wouldn't be significantly less storyline than is in present many quests). Rather, I'm picturing quests where the text is better integrated with the game world in the form of dialogue (whether accompanied by voice acting or not) and actions.
Rainee Sue Oct 9th 2009 1:55PM
Unrelated: check out the quest pictured, and imagine doing it on a DK.
Spiraea Oct 9th 2009 1:58PM
I try to read every little bit of quest text and try my best to understand it and how it may fit into the lore of Warcraft. I really do, I like to look at the text of every quest as a page in a book. Sure, I'll let Carbonite/Questhelper do the work of telling me where to go exactly but I want to know just why in the world am I going there and killing 10 of these and collecting 5 of that.
Kelsey Oct 9th 2009 1:58PM
Personally, I love reading the quest text. Although things like QuestHelper are great, I enjoy the questing much more if I know WHY I'm doing it, not just where I need to go and what I need to kill. I wouldn't mind Blizzard introducing new ways to get across information, but I hope they don't do away with the text completely.
Ktok Oct 9th 2009 2:01PM
Never played an MMO before? Hell, how about never played any RPG on anything as old as the PSX? 0_o
Text is the great story teller of Humanity. In my experience, people who bitch about having to read text can't read very well (as in, very slowly) or have a poor vocabulary and don't know the meaning of many words they run into.
Don't burden the game with painful voice acting for every quest. EQ2 already tried that. It was neat the first time you heard some dialog. After that you just wanted to turn it off and stick to the text. With text, the person can sound like however you picture them. With recorded dialog, if they sound like Lisa Simpson, they're always going to sound like Lisa Simpson.
Damned kids and their not being able to read... *strokes long, white beard and rocks in his rocking chair*
Calybos Oct 9th 2009 3:51PM
More importantly for me, a switch to voice quests would make me unable to play.
Remember this concept, folks: ACCENTS.
Every NPC will have a bizarre, incomprehensible accent, and you'll end up asking everyone to repeat their quest instructions four or five times, trying to work out what the heck they're saying.
I can't process accents to any degree.
Cyanea Oct 9th 2009 3:58PM
Not to mention the fact that if you spend any decent amount of time reading beyond the bare minimum for school, you develop a reading speed way beyond what a normal person can say outloud. I turn on the subtitles in RPGs and skip through the voice acting because waiting for them to finish their sentences is agonizing.
Adamanthis Oct 9th 2009 5:14PM
"Text is the great story teller of Humanity" because it can paint subtle details at the same time it leaves room for the imagination to fill in the rest, creating an dynamic space between the reader and the text.
How much of that comes across in your average quest box? I don't see much of it, and I read them all. Their loss would not be a blow to literature.
The current quest descriptions are the equivalent of intertitles in a silent film. They convey what is going on, but there are better ways to do it that don't stop the flow of the narrative in its tracks.
miko Oct 10th 2009 8:18AM
how exactly ?
how eactly does a npc draw your attention and indicate what they want you to do without using the written word (and excluding speech because they are NOT going to voice dub WoW)
you want to put forward an example brainac ?
just one will do.
and no mime ! (cause i'm with Vetinari on that)
emperor webrunnr Oct 9th 2009 2:03PM
Playing the Half Life 2 Episode 1 Commentary mode, there's one spot where there is an enemy who shoots you from behind early on, and then runs away out of range. The entire purpose for this enemy is to get you to turn around so that you notice the giant airship flying out from underneath it and then over your head.
adamcasalino Oct 9th 2009 2:15PM
I mean in elder scrolls iv? have the npc talk directly to you is more emersive i think. the quest text was also shorter and you could skip it if you wanted. having a voice just seems to make things more real, like the death knight first quest.
they should also add map markers on the map to make objectives easier to find.
eric_barbaric Oct 9th 2009 2:18PM
(In my best "Comicbook Guy" from the Simpsons impression)
Best post ever...
Kia Oct 9th 2009 2:28PM
First of all...I have nothing to say about people that complain about reading. Just...jkdhkhf. Go play fucking Halo or something. I don't know.
Secondly! WoW's quests have always been what drew me to the game compared to most MMOs, giving the game a real sense of story and character. However, I will say, while I absolutely love to read (for crying out loud, I'm a librarian), I really don't mind what they do with quest text in the game.
As long as the same sense of story comes out, I'm all for it. They seem to have moved this way a lot in Wrath, with the cutscenes like Brann and the Tribunal talking about the Earthen in HoS, and of course the Wrath Gate. The Brann/Tribunal interaction stands out especially, because I remember the early, very similar talk when you get the discs of Norgannon, and it's a similar bit of exposition about the Earthen told solely through text/quest dialogue.
I think seeing the same sort of thing voiced is much more immersive, so as long as they keep up this level of polish and development...Kudos to Blizz.