Death to Whirlwind

What's the problem, you're probably thinking, or maybe you're thinking about pennies and kittens, I'm no mind reader. Plus, I'm writing this before you get a chance to read it, so while I'm composing it you're not even thinking about what I'm typing because you won't read it until later and I'm also incapable of prognosticating the future.
Anyway, the meat of the issue is that "causing weapon damage from both melee weapons" phrase. It's why every serious DPS fury warrior has the Glyph of Whirlwind. It's why fury warrior DPS drops when they're in the middle of a Freya or Vezax trash pull and they actually watch their bloody attacks and don't just blithely break CC by spamming the Whirlwind/Cleave buttons like a deranged monkey. It's why they're good to help kill Snobalds on Northrend Beasts and bad on Faction Champions (because Faction Champs take a lot less DPS from AoE) because, frankly, Whirlwind isn't treated like AoE by fury warriors.
Whirlwind is in fact hit every 8 glyphed seconds by every fury warrior. It's used on every boss. It's used on every pull unless specifically told not to use it for CC reasons. The core of the current TG fury warrior rotation is 2 Bloodthirsts and a Whirlwind, with an instant Slam if it procs and a Heroic Strike to bleed off rage or if everything's on cooldown and you need a button to hit. This supposed AoE is not only crippled as AoE (really now, 4 targets in the age of Fan of Knives and unlimited Thunder Clap?) but it's basically never really used as AoE anyway, it's a straight up second instant attack to be used in tandem with Bloodthirst. But Bloodthirst is a pure Attack Power based ability. The weapons you're using really only matter for BT in so far as they contribute rage to use it via increased white damage, and attack power via stats. Whirlwind, on the other hand, is directly improved by weapon damage and it also factors in the increased damage from having two big two handers equipped.
In short, Whirlwind is bad AoE but amazing single target DPS (or, to be fair, amazing up-to-four-target DPS, but that's not something we hear lauded very often) and has become the backbone of fury DPS ever since it was changed to hit with both weapons back in patch 2.3 but what made Whirlwind good in BC makes it too good in Wrath. It wouldn't be so bad if it were merely a weapon damage strike (Cleave is based on weapon damage, as is Slam and fury warriors cast Slam instantly) but the combination of its instant cast nature and the fact that it is the only ability at the disposal of a fury warrior wielding 2 2h weapons that hits with both weapons at once is what makes it a perfect storm here.
By itself, the increased attack power and white damage of a TG fury warrior is balanced out: neither Bloodsurge cast Slams nor Cleaves nor even Heroic Strikes take advantage of the high DPS of the offhand weapon. Fury warrior AP is inherently higher than other melee DPS hybrids but they have damage that bypasses armor entirely or rely more on bleeds or other forms of damage. The higher AP of fury warriors is balanced out by doing purely physical damage on most targets, damage that is mitigated by armor, and reliance on Deep Wounds was modified to keep it in line with this strategy. But by allowing Whirlwind to hit instantly with two big two handers, it becomes a necessary part of a fury warrior's rotation and the only one that really takes advantage of the DPS and top end damage of that offhand weapon. There's a reason the Jawbone was so popular with fury warriors in Naxxramas.
In the end, what I'd like to see is absolutely unlikely to happen. What I'd like is to see Titan's Grip un-nerfed and Whirlwind either converted to an attack power based attack or Whirlwind made a proper form of group AoE damage with no target limit (mobs within the range get hit, period) and a range increase to 10 yards. In return, the cooldown would be increased so that it's not usable as a second instant in rotation with Bloodthirst anymore, and a second attack would be used instead. A fury talent or glyph that made Victory Rush usable every eight seconds or so would allow it to fill the role Whirlwind does now as an instant cast DPS ability to weave into rotation with Bloodthirst, and it's also based on AP so you wouldn't have to worry about weapon damage from two huge beasts. Allow for higher white damage to make rage generation smoother, it's all physical so it's mitigated by armor but doesn't get the double whammy of that second 2h, and if people are bound and determined to get that damage out of Whirlwind every 20 seconds or so (however long the cooldown would be) it would not only not break anything at that point but they'd end up kicking themselves if an actual AoE situation came up and they didn't have it.
There. Now that I'm done dreaming, I'm going to go get that pony and ride it to the Newport Creamery so I can eat an Awful Awful. I miss Awful Awfuls. I probably couldn't handle three like I did when I was a child, but time makes fools of us all.
Filed under: Warrior, Analysis / Opinion, Talents






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
2Legit2something Oct 19th 2009 11:07AM
As a clothie I look forward to more intercept stuns and whirlwinds. Time for priests to get plate armor....Oh wait.
Tremelizzer Oct 19th 2009 11:18AM
For your information: in lore paladins are priests who wear plate armor.
The Last Sand Merman Oct 19th 2009 12:05PM
Actually, Paladins are Priests who wear plate armor AND are highly trained into armed combat, forfeiting a big part of their "mental" training for it. In the end, they're pretty different from Priests.
DAWG Oct 19th 2009 6:18PM
Yay for using replys
Glyph of Cleave:
Cleave now attacks a single target with both weapons, but gives Cleave a 6 second cooldown
(cutaia) Oct 19th 2009 11:08AM
For someone who's not a mind reader, that pennies and kittens thing was astonishingly accurate.
Sir7 Oct 19th 2009 3:35PM
Ya know this Rossi guy always has some good, eloquently-made points, but I always forget all that because DAMN he's a funny bastard!
Mop+Bucket Oct 19th 2009 11:15AM
Whats an awful awful =S
Vahan Oct 19th 2009 12:01PM
It's a milkshake. Awful big Awful good
DeathPaladin Oct 19th 2009 2:46PM
Saying that an Awful Awful is a milkshake is a bit simplistic, but I do agree that it is probably the closest explanation that a non-Rhode Islander would understand. Some languages just have idioms that can not be translated well into other languages.
Beverages in Rhode Island are serious business.
vinniedcleaner Oct 19th 2009 9:34PM
It's a giant hamburger sold by the Nugget in Reno
James Oct 19th 2009 11:14AM
At this point i just feel bad for dps warriors. Blizzard for some reason refuses to fix their problems, despite them being consistently among the lowest dps on any gimmick-based fight(being able to destroy on Patch is great, except for there are no fights like patch in the current tier of content). Heroic Anub and Twins are the only fights i see warriors able to top other classes with ease. As the patch 3.3 notes continue to change hopefully we'll see some warrior buffs/changes.
Koukalaka Oct 19th 2009 11:22AM
So.... Being able to top damage on the 2 hardest encounters in the game at the moment is bad? I will easily top damage on twins at the moment and on anub'arak heroic I'm pretty much in the top 3 of single target damage done to anub whilst being able to do significant aoe damage to the adds.
I believe dps warriors are in a pretty nice place damage wise just the situations they are useful in, when I could choose a dk, are incredibly limiting. It also isn't great being the kings of 2-4 target damage, it just isn't a great niche, yet would I call for blizzard to rethink my damage? Not really I'm doing great damage at the moment and with scaling its only going to get more competitive come icecrown. Do I want blizzard to fix our aoe issue? yes simply make whirlwind hit all targets and thats all that is needed at the moment. Sure having a full blooded aoe as apart of the rotation isn't ideal but it would give me much more versatility if a yogg-0 type fight ever occurs in ICC. Then come cataclysm fix the fury/arms rotations. However at the moment our damage is perfectly fine and the only thing I would like is whirlwind to be reclassified as a full-blooded aoe, which it should be.
About the article: Whirlwind has never hit snobolds... so no its pretty useless for dealing with them.
James Oct 19th 2009 11:57AM
The problem with your comment is that yes, being able to top the charts on only 2 fights out of 10(if you count normal and heroic versions) is bad, when on almost every other fight i see warriors in the bottom 5 or 6 against equally geared hybrid classes. You may prefer it, but i guarantee most people would rather be 3rd or 4th dps consistently every fight than rock bottom for the majority and 2nd or 3rd for the two hard fights.
And come 3.3 you must consider that EVERYONE will be scaling with better gear. Just because fury warriors scale the best with gear doesn't mean that in the next tier they will all of a sudden become top dps. You are starting well below most classes, and i seriously doubt the gear scaling is going to be so much that you overtake most classes.
Leave it to a warrior to bitch even when im calling for yall to get buffs.
breaklance Oct 19th 2009 12:24PM
Warrior's cannot have unlimited targets on WW without taking a damage penalty, its pretty simple. Even at an 8 second cooldown hitting all targets for 10k or more is too much. Its too much for shamans to have chain lightning hit 3, 4 glyphed, targets for 6k and then diminish per jump, its too much for warriors.
Okay that was a bit of a selfish bump for shamans, but in the reality WW can't hit all targets without taking some kind of a nerf in hand. Which would hurt single target dps. You can't have both worlds here and I believe that's why Blizzard has kept it so.
Shoryu Oct 19th 2009 7:52PM
you are aware that if you target a kobold next to gormok and cleave/ ww it does in fact jump from kobold to gormok and hit both, it just doesnt jump from boss to kobold or kobold to kobold. yo test it out for yourself and its the reason im on kobold duty in the melee area.
rabih_saad Nov 5th 2009 10:37AM
Shoryu your absolutely right on this one, and i do it all the times. But you cant tell the ranged or healers to come down next to Gormok for you to dps the Kobolt. But you can take out the one on a melee next to you. And for that you can see your dps in the top 3 on the beast fights.
When its an aoe fight fury warriors generally are in the top 3 dps meter. Single target fights 5th or 6th position.
Which is not bad, but thinking that your a mighty warrior dual wielding 2 handed weapons you should top that meter or be constantly in the top 3. Definitely...
hiphophomies Oct 19th 2009 11:15AM
how about getting dual wield, all stances and plate at level 1? Surely we can also afford more beserker stance skills.
DeathPaladin Oct 19th 2009 11:15AM
Could Fury use some more proccing abilities, similar to Art of War in Retribution or Sudden Death in Arms? Because allowing Art of War to affect Exorcism did wonders to making it so Retribution did not have to rely on Consecration to keep up on DPS in single target fights because they didn't have enough buttons to press.
zetathran Oct 19th 2009 11:22AM
More like...Death to Bladestorm! That ability tears up my priest like no other. On a more serious note, I find it quite odd that all these other fury warrior abilities they saw fit to normalize in light of Titan's Grip, but not whirlwind. The changes you suggest for the fury rotation sound very reasonable, but arms might need to be changed somehow to make up for loss in Bladestorm damage. Just, please, don't lower the cooldown any more! I also can't condone increasing the range, I complain a lot about being Bladestorm'd through pillars, I'd hate to see it actually happen :P
breaklance Oct 19th 2009 12:26PM
Bladestorm is the arms 51 point talent, this article is about fury's 51 point talent. No one cares your priest in 200 resil gets 1 shot by a slow moving, and very obvious, roflcopter