Death to Whirlwind

What's the problem, you're probably thinking, or maybe you're thinking about pennies and kittens, I'm no mind reader. Plus, I'm writing this before you get a chance to read it, so while I'm composing it you're not even thinking about what I'm typing because you won't read it until later and I'm also incapable of prognosticating the future.
Anyway, the meat of the issue is that "causing weapon damage from both melee weapons" phrase. It's why every serious DPS fury warrior has the Glyph of Whirlwind. It's why fury warrior DPS drops when they're in the middle of a Freya or Vezax trash pull and they actually watch their bloody attacks and don't just blithely break CC by spamming the Whirlwind/Cleave buttons like a deranged monkey. It's why they're good to help kill Snobalds on Northrend Beasts and bad on Faction Champions (because Faction Champs take a lot less DPS from AoE) because, frankly, Whirlwind isn't treated like AoE by fury warriors.
Whirlwind is in fact hit every 8 glyphed seconds by every fury warrior. It's used on every boss. It's used on every pull unless specifically told not to use it for CC reasons. The core of the current TG fury warrior rotation is 2 Bloodthirsts and a Whirlwind, with an instant Slam if it procs and a Heroic Strike to bleed off rage or if everything's on cooldown and you need a button to hit. This supposed AoE is not only crippled as AoE (really now, 4 targets in the age of Fan of Knives and unlimited Thunder Clap?) but it's basically never really used as AoE anyway, it's a straight up second instant attack to be used in tandem with Bloodthirst. But Bloodthirst is a pure Attack Power based ability. The weapons you're using really only matter for BT in so far as they contribute rage to use it via increased white damage, and attack power via stats. Whirlwind, on the other hand, is directly improved by weapon damage and it also factors in the increased damage from having two big two handers equipped.
In short, Whirlwind is bad AoE but amazing single target DPS (or, to be fair, amazing up-to-four-target DPS, but that's not something we hear lauded very often) and has become the backbone of fury DPS ever since it was changed to hit with both weapons back in patch 2.3 but what made Whirlwind good in BC makes it too good in Wrath. It wouldn't be so bad if it were merely a weapon damage strike (Cleave is based on weapon damage, as is Slam and fury warriors cast Slam instantly) but the combination of its instant cast nature and the fact that it is the only ability at the disposal of a fury warrior wielding 2 2h weapons that hits with both weapons at once is what makes it a perfect storm here.
By itself, the increased attack power and white damage of a TG fury warrior is balanced out: neither Bloodsurge cast Slams nor Cleaves nor even Heroic Strikes take advantage of the high DPS of the offhand weapon. Fury warrior AP is inherently higher than other melee DPS hybrids but they have damage that bypasses armor entirely or rely more on bleeds or other forms of damage. The higher AP of fury warriors is balanced out by doing purely physical damage on most targets, damage that is mitigated by armor, and reliance on Deep Wounds was modified to keep it in line with this strategy. But by allowing Whirlwind to hit instantly with two big two handers, it becomes a necessary part of a fury warrior's rotation and the only one that really takes advantage of the DPS and top end damage of that offhand weapon. There's a reason the Jawbone was so popular with fury warriors in Naxxramas.
In the end, what I'd like to see is absolutely unlikely to happen. What I'd like is to see Titan's Grip un-nerfed and Whirlwind either converted to an attack power based attack or Whirlwind made a proper form of group AoE damage with no target limit (mobs within the range get hit, period) and a range increase to 10 yards. In return, the cooldown would be increased so that it's not usable as a second instant in rotation with Bloodthirst anymore, and a second attack would be used instead. A fury talent or glyph that made Victory Rush usable every eight seconds or so would allow it to fill the role Whirlwind does now as an instant cast DPS ability to weave into rotation with Bloodthirst, and it's also based on AP so you wouldn't have to worry about weapon damage from two huge beasts. Allow for higher white damage to make rage generation smoother, it's all physical so it's mitigated by armor but doesn't get the double whammy of that second 2h, and if people are bound and determined to get that damage out of Whirlwind every 20 seconds or so (however long the cooldown would be) it would not only not break anything at that point but they'd end up kicking themselves if an actual AoE situation came up and they didn't have it.
There. Now that I'm done dreaming, I'm going to go get that pony and ride it to the Newport Creamery so I can eat an Awful Awful. I miss Awful Awfuls. I probably couldn't handle three like I did when I was a child, but time makes fools of us all.
Filed under: Warrior, Analysis / Opinion, Talents
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Reader Comments (Page 2 of 4)
A1CYancy Oct 19th 2009 5:05PM
There is absolutely no reason a priest should be in range of bladestorm. If you are so unintelligent you can't learn your classes ranges, you should be eaten by all melee attacks. GG clothy.
jbcani Oct 19th 2009 5:11PM
@Breaklance
Bladestorm counts as whirlwind damage fool
DragonFireKai Oct 19th 2009 5:33PM
@jbcani
The whole point of this article is that whirlwind's damage scales with both equipped weapons. How many arms warriors do you know that bladestorm while dual wielding? The correct answer is: Only the terrible ones.
Even if they did nerf that aspect of it, the damage that Arms Warriors do would be completely unchanged.
jbodar Oct 19th 2009 6:23PM
Bladestorm is so tangentially related to this discussion on Fury Warriors using WW with Titan's Grip, it's not even funny.
Jabadabadana Oct 19th 2009 11:30AM
I can't fathom why whirlwind would need to go UP in CD time if it became a full blown aoe, instead of the 4 target cleave it is now. Every other aoe in the game, sans shockwave, is on a functional 10 second or less CD. A great many are permanently spammable. (All channeled aoe's) FoK and kitty swipe can be used every 5 seconds or less.
Also, the day a fury warrior passes up a similar geared kitty in AP, I'll eat my hat. My kitty in blues and greens had more AP than my warrior as fury in full epics.
The only issues I see with whirlwind are that it exists as fury warrior's biggest aoe, in the era of infinite targets, and that it isn't used like aoe.
As for the whirlwind becomes aoe, something becomes the single target, I'm actually in favor of that. I don't see why whirlwind needs to come off weapon damage. FoK and Swipe are both on it. I also wouldn't like to see victory rush as the single target ability. I think VR has it's own purpose. A new ability would be nice though, or sans that, a lower CD on bloodthirst.
Zinn Oct 19th 2009 12:14PM
As druids and warriors are affected completely different by AP, you can't just simply compare the amount to tell anything about anything. Generally a druid has about twice as much AP as any other APclass. This does not mean they do twice the dmg.
Jabadabadana Oct 19th 2009 2:19PM
You must not have read or remembered the article. There is a line in it about fury warrior AP being inherently higher than other hybrids. Nothing in my statement reflects anything about comparing the effects of said AP of both classes.
Regardless, the comment was more a throw away complaint about not understanding the stating of other classes.
KronosIII Oct 19th 2009 11:47AM
YES, fury wars can do amazing damage. Only if everyone else in your raid is a fool or a shadow priest.
There is no reason at all why any geared class can't beat a warrior in dps in raids other then shadow priest.
Me.......Iam the new MT in my guild. I gave up with all the nerfing and suck wars got. The nerf to armor pen. really did its last toll to me.
I quit wow for 3 months when Ulduar came out. Because that was the patch for the death of titans grip. And then the armor pen. nerf gimped by grim tol.
Even now I question our tanking..........
And guess what. 1h weapons are going to be usable for raid dps in expansion. You know what that means? TG BEING NERFED TO THE FLOOR
Milus Oct 19th 2009 11:49AM
Do any other healers notice Warriors dying like they are clothies all the time now since this whirlwind craze?
thebvp Oct 19th 2009 12:08PM
It's not a craze. It's the best thing they have as part of their rotation, and even then, it's sub par when compared to other classes. They simply have nothing that will do better, it's the best tool in their toolbox, and still, their dps is sub-par.
And the reason they're dying is because they're pulling aggro from that extra damage they have to do to those extra targets so they can look like they're pulling their own weight on the damage meters and justify their raid slot. It's not their fault. If anything, I blame bad mechanics and the game community's frothing insistence on Recount being a litmus test for usefulness to the group.
Rob Oct 19th 2009 1:00PM
So its Blizz's fault they are pulling aggro on trash where dps is irrelevent? Really guys, you need to buy a clue. Nobody is going to drop you as a warrior because your trash dps is low. Nobody cares about trash. What people care about is decent (average) dps, buffs, staying alive, being a good person, being a good player, etc. Most RLs i know don't look at dps warriors and say 'good this guy sucks'. No, its the guy who pulls aggro, stands in fire, and holds up the raid with stupid things, or is a tool otherwise, those are the guys who get removed from raids. Not because your dps as a class isn't as great as some other class.
A1CYancy Oct 19th 2009 4:54PM
Why don't warriors have a threat dump like pallies, mages, etc?
Vahan Oct 19th 2009 11:59AM
ROFL you must be from Rhode Island too. I love Awful Awfuls
Candina@WH Oct 19th 2009 12:00PM
So... whirlwind is similar to a enhancement shamans 'storm strike' ability.
Execept against 4 opponents.
With two handed weapons.
for a whole 2 seconds more cooldown...
And has two talents that increase whirlwinds damage by 40% (total) and it's crit by 20%...
compared to +20% nature damage over 12 seconds or next 4 attacks(never used all four charges). (but wait, when talented, Storm Strike gives back mana...!)
Yeah, it might need to be nerfed.
Myrdor Oct 19th 2009 12:34PM
Comparing two different abilities while ignoring the rest of the class is just flat out stupid. Seriously.
Is it silly that a melee spec'd shaman's talented melee strikes are their weakest attacks? Yeah, sure, but its got nothing to do with fury warriors.
Jeremy Oct 19th 2009 3:54PM
It's not so much that it needs to be nerfed but rather we shouldn't have to use our main "aoe" Just nerfing it dosen't help the situation, just lowers dps more.
A better alternitive would be to add one or two new abilities, or rework existing ones like allowing victory rush to be cast in combat with a 20 second cooldown with killing a target giving exp or honor resetting the cooldown and adding a +damage effect to it.
The fact that a master of weapons such as warriors hitting 3, maybe 4 buttons a fight seems kind of sad. Feels like there should be more complexity then that.
At least healers play whack-a-mole with 5, 10, or 25 people.
Farthing Oct 19th 2009 12:03PM
Wow! I'm impressed, that a really nice summary of all the problems Fury warriors are having. Similar problems can be tied to Bladestorm (main dps move can't be used on certain fights because it breaks cc), but to a much lesser degree because TGrip isn't in the equation. Just one little tack-on. If whirlwind WAS changed to a warrior ap-based aoe instead of a single-target attack that happened to hit 3 other enemies, the damage would be lowered to account for it being an aoe.
Instead of the cooldown being increased, which would only hurt warrior aoe even more, it should be cut entirely. Basically, a warrior version of Fan of Knives.
thebvp Oct 19th 2009 12:49PM
Fury warriors are supposed to be somewhat reckless and . I think it's the nature of the spec (and probably what most players have in mind), to be berzerkers of sorts- raging beasts who storm into combat, impervious to danger, wrecking everything in their path. Perhaps a bit imprecise, but effective. Rogues do it from behind with their tiny little daggers, and fury warriors bash your face in from the front with their giant 2 handers.
There's a difference between that and being a liability to your group, however. And a balance can be struck between "a little reckless," and "oh god not another fury warrior."
That's all these guys are asking for.
cmeares Oct 19th 2009 1:24PM
I agree that warriors are somewhat reckless as it is in the nature of the class that you will inherently take incoming damage. My warrior is duel spec prot/arms, but before 3.1 I was fury. I literally had to count to 10 before I could engage a pull because I would simply pull aggro. I switched to arms, same thing...
Rend - > Mortal Strike -> Die
Flavio Oct 19th 2009 1:02PM
There's one common point about Divine Storm.
I hate being "forced" to use a AOE ability on my single target dps rotation, we should be able to choose between single and multiple. For example: You'll never see a good mage casting Blizzard on a single target.