Shifting Perspectives: The disappearance of the bear, part 2

My take: A responsible raid leader is primarily concerned with which tank will get the raid through an encounter, and only distantly concerned with any loot fights that will erupt afterwards, so I think this has minimal direct impact on bear representation. It is a potential source of resentment among melee DPS and hunters, and it's certainly not going to help your raid in the early weeks of hard-mode attempts with a limited number of drops to go around. However, it's a problem that eventually solves itself after a few months of farm content.
To the extent that opportunity cost plays a role in bear representation, I would guess its impact is felt most in competitive raiding guilds while realm-firsts are still up for grabs. If you're in any situation other than that and your raid leader is making tank choices based on something like this, your raid's got more serious problems than who's tanking what.
Complaint #4: Early Wrath weaknesses in 5-mans left a bad impression on players, and this bled through to raid content.
"Who's your least favorite tank to heal and why?"
"My least favorite in a 5 man is a druid. It's not their fault and I still love them to pieces but they have the biggest challenge for maintaining aggro on groups. In a Pug situation, I will outright decline if the tank is a druid."
We've talked about this previously, but as a TL:DR, bears probably had the most difficulty of all four tanks with dungeons and heroics in the first months after Wrath went live. This was due to an unfortunate combination of factors -- namely, relatively weak AoE threat generation coupled with buffs to DPS' AoE capabilities, and the early lack of a block mechanic coupled with healers starting heroics in greens and blues. Players noticed, with bears being the commonly-cited "least favorite tank" in early content.

My take: A lot of the problems described in that article have since been dealt with, or minimized as healing efficiency outscaled tank HP. What (if any) longterm effect they had on bear population, I don't know. Short of access to statistics on exactly when the bear decline really started, this is a fairly murky issue, but one of the things you'll notice from the linked thread is that a lot of healers were talking about bear tanks disappearing as early as December 2008. More on this as we get to #8.
Otherwise, I'm reduced to quoting myself: we're not a bad tank, we're just the tank whose particular weaknesses are least suited to how players expect to complete modern heroics. This has less to do with the Feral spec (or any tanking spec, really) than it does with the attitude change on the part of the player base between Burning Crusade and Wrath. DPS players have become accustomed to shifting the larger share of responsibility for threat management to tanks, and they don't expect to be constrained by a kill order, the need to CC, or conservative use of AoE (anyone who doesn't believe me on this count hasn't pugged a 5-man since patch 3.0.2). This is an intimidating barrier to entry for new tanks, and particularly for new bears, as the bear's weaknesses in 5-mans (the lack of burst AoE threat outside of a cooldown and no ranged silence) are going to be magnified by tanking for DPS who outgear them.
Complaint #5: Bear gameplay is boring. Too much of the bear's effectiveness is baked into talents rather than being determined by player skill.
"I wore the letter off my Swipe hotkey."
Anyone who's played both a protection warrior and a druid tank can tell you that the bear plays like the CliffsNotes version of a warrior, with ability differences typically being worse for the bear. Discrepancies are generally compensated by feral talents, and while that's necessary to make the bear a viable tank despite its restriction to DPS leather, not many of them add options to what's already a limited tool kit. The single-target tanking rotation isn't terribly different from other tanks', but in AoE situations and 5-mans, things devolve into swipeswipeswipeswipeswipeswipeswipeswipe pretty quickly.
My take: Bears being "boring" to play is by now a common charge on the Tanking forums, but it's a charge that's often leveled by people who don't actually play them. I'm not bored playing my bear tank and I'm especially not bored playing the druid class as a whole, but is has to be said that the original vision for the bear -- namely, to be a weaker copy of the warrior -- is still dogging the spec.
Almost everything in the bear's toolkit has a direct counterpart in the warrior skill set, but the skills that most distinguish us from other tanks (Rebirth, Tranquility, Innervate, and improved DPS from cat form once your tank target has died) are inaccessible as long as the druid's still getting hit by a mob. It might be fair to say that the druid is the best possible tank to have when you don't actually need them to tank, and this is both a disheartening "niche" and a strong incentive not to use them in a main tank capacity.We're not the only tank with that problem, and maybe it's no accident that Blizzard's singled out both bear and paladin tank population for comment. Paladins have complained for years that they're relegated to AoE and add-tanking for similar reasons. They're so good at it (and rage tanks were once so poor) that you had to be crazy to put a paladin on, say, Morogrim Tidewalker instead of putting them on the adds. But paladins have at least one thing going for them that we don't -- they don't lose 3/4 of their skill set shifting into a form that allows them to tank.
Complaint #6: Gear consolidation often results in druids looking insanely stupid in caster form.
Allie: (In Ulduar), all of the non-set melee leather was oriented toward rogue tier, which had the effect of making druid (tanks) look like a postmodern clown on the run from Cirque du Soleil.
Matt Rossi: Druids look like they got into the craft bin at the local thrift shop.
Almost all non-set melee leather drops are designed to complement rogue tier, and, well, let's face it; rogue and druid pieces aren't usually a good match for each other.
If you've ever seen a tauren rocking a mixture of Nightsong with non-set pieces, a Garona's Guise, and a Lotrafen, then you've already seen this problem. When Blizzard releases new tier sets, an experienced feral knows enough by now to bypass the druid set, pop the cap on the nearest gin bottle, and head for the rogue set -- because that's mostly what you're going to look like.My take: When the inability to see your gear while tanking can be considered a feature rather than a bug -- that's bad. Tier 9 has escaped the worst of it (sort of) with all druid and rogue gear being recolored versions of the same skins/models, but I think we can all agree that Tier 8 was its own special brand of hell. As things stand now, it's not unreasonable to expect that future Ferals will continue to sport a mixture of druid-themed and rogue-themed leather alongside hunter-themed polearms, and the prospect isn't one likely to land us on Project Runway anytime soon.
I have to wonder if the continuing popularity of the warrior tank has anything to do with the fact that non-set plate tanking drops are almost universally designed to complement warrior tier sets. Blizzard has kind of a hearts-and-minds problem on its hands right now by insisting that it wants four viable tanks in the game while only designing gear that makes one of them look good.
Filed under: Druid, Analysis / Opinion, Features, Classes, (Druid) Shifting Perspectives






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Sashayla Oct 21st 2009 11:48AM
"But paladins have at least one thing going for them that we don't -- they don't lose 3/4 of their skill set shifting into a form that allows them to tank."
True. We paladins just need a completely different gear set when changing roles. Oddly, there's some advantage to bear druids sharing drops with DPS.
Thetealone Oct 21st 2009 2:57PM
Yet my druid still has two separate sets of gear one for tanking one for DPS.. with the difference being about 15k hp towards tank and 2k AP towards DPS as well 7%ish crit
On top of that from iLvL 200 - 219 the best in slot (for health) is a blue from a 5 man heroic. That being said My druid WAS my main. I quit playing him because I mastered the druid class.. yes i quit my druid because I became too good at it and it stopped being fun. Now instead of tanking with my druid i heal with my paladin
I'm not contradicting your statement.. your right.. with even my tank gear on my druid i can go cat form and pull out more dps then any other tank could in combat...
ON a more positive note... the Onyxia encounter does favor a feral off tank, with the ability to easily pick up whelps via swipe and shifting for phase 1 & 3 to smack a ho.
Nagi Oct 21st 2009 12:02PM
As a fairly new druid (currently level 22), I probably don't have enough experience to really speak on the issue, but from what I've played so far I would say points #1 and #5 have a bit more validity to them than you seem to give them credit for. When I'm playing my druid and staring at a cat/bear/travelcat/whatever rear end all day, the bear is still the least visually appealing of the group by far. When you look at the cat or tree from behind, you still see them as a recognizable cat or tree. The way they're shaped still allows you to see the detail andmodeling and texturing that Blizzard put into making these forms look as appealing as possible. On the other hand, the way the bear's shaped is like a pear turned sideways, with the widest end pointed at the camera. You don't see anything recognizable as "bear," you see a big, fuzzy, monochromatic sphere. Blizzard giving us six intricately-designed bear textures per race was admirable, but the very shape of the bear makes it all for naught until you're out of combat and can spin the camera around to a non-obscured angle. And if you're doing that, why not just shift out of animal form anyway?
As to #5, I played a bear from levels 10-19, got my cat at 20, and it immediately felt like night and day. It felt so much more intricate and involved, with gameplay approaching the complexity I was accustomed to with a warlock and paladin as my mains. This feeling of euphoria was quickly dampened when I realized it came from pressing a whopping THREE BUTTONS versus spamming ONE with the bear. I know since I'm at a lower level right now I should expect to see more attacks become accessible in bear form later on, but as things stand it feels more monotonous than other classes did at this level. Maul, maul, maul, maul, maul, maul, all day long, maul, maul, maul. Even compared to other druid forms, it feels lacking based on my understanding. Cat form gets a lot of rogue analogues, resto druids get a wide assortment of heals, boomkin have all these caster spells, bears have...an enrage, an aggro gain, a cleave, and a single-target smack. I hope I'm missing something, and I'm fairly certain I am, but from a semi-outsider's perspective, as someone used to juggling DoTs or Destro/Retribution cooldowns, bear tanking appears like the least appealing way to play a druid. In fact, I almost exclusively rolled mine to go Resto.
The itemization issues are probably the very core of the issue of bear tank shortage, but I still would not discount the negative impact that spamming one attack as a bouncing brown ball has (especially versus juggling combo points or HoTs as a readily-discernible cat or tree).
Sim Oct 21st 2009 12:11PM
This whole article rings so true, and its a combination of all of these factors that have caused me to practically shelve my druid.
One comment I might make is that while as Sashayla says, gear consolidation does allow us to jump to cat when not tanking and provide reasonable damage, it also causes a great deal of gear choice stress. My guild is pretty casual, and by the time 3.2 hit, we had barely taken a sideways glance at Ulduar-10. As a result, most of my gear was still Naxx 10, ilvl 200 epics. I was quite excited to get back into running heroics for badges again...until I actually looked at the gear I could get from them. The gear was two tiers above what I was current wearing, and yet was only an incremental upgrade, at best. All of the itemization being spent on things like haste, crit and attack power that have very nebulous, if any, value as a tanking stat. Not at all like the amazing Quel'danas badge rewards during BC.
TL;DR. I envy the other tanking classes who, I suspect, have a much easier time of evaluating gear.
Graylo Oct 21st 2009 12:28PM
@Complaint #5:
In my opinion, this arguement doesn't hold any water, because it only looks at the issue from one perspective.
It assumes that all players have the same interests when playing their toons. There are a lot of people that like to hit lots of buttons and master the perfect rotation. Such players would avoid any class that was basically one button. However, there are plenty of players that are perfectly fine with hitting one button from here to eternity. If no one liked hitting just one button then no one would have played a warlock in TBC. Instead it was one of the most poptular classes.
Feral being boring may cause some people to switch classes or specs, but if that was the only issue then you would see plenty players willing to take their place.
Tsuun Oct 21st 2009 1:34PM
I think there's a simpler explanation than the above, and it's that bears have the least to offer as tanks in the current raid environment. Point 1) They have the worst AOE abilities. Swipe is directional, and it doesn't even stun. Shockwave can't be spammed but the stun makes it better than Swipe. Then, Warriors get Thunderclap on top of that. Let's not even talk about DKs and Paladins, obviously their AoE is better. Disadvantage: Druids. 2) Cooldowns. Druids get two cooldowns, one of which is an inferior (but slightly more spammable) version of Shield Wall, the other which is more or less the same as Last Stand. Warriors get the good Shield Wall, plus they get Shield Block, and Last Stand. Obviously Paladins and DKs have the edge here as well. Disadvantage: Druids. So what do Druids have going for them if they lack these other two things? A big health pool and high armor. But wait, that's been nerfed too. But wait, they deal more DPS than the other tanks. Also not true anymore.
Let's compare this to what a Resto druid offers compared to the other healing classes. The only battle res in game? Check. More and better hots than any other healer? Check. Plate-like armor while wearing leather? Check. An AoE which is nearly as good as a Holy Priest? Check. Basically Resto druids have the potential to be the best at what they do. Feral tanks seem to have an uphill battle to match the other tanks.
In short: Buff feral tanks. A good start would be to make their battle res instant cast and usable in Bear form. Seriously. Also give them MOAR STUNS. And better DPS.
I have an 80 Druid, an 80 Warrior, and an 80 Paladin and have tanked on all three, I know a bit about the subject.
Sashayla Oct 21st 2009 1:44PM
Umm... not to say your overall point is wrong, but unless I'm mistaken, Swipe has been 360 degress since patch 3.1.
mayhem Oct 21st 2009 4:38PM
Bear swipe is 360 degrees. Cat swipe is still directional.
Lypstick Oct 29th 2009 1:15AM
So basically, Nerf Resto since they're obviously OP. Maybe more people would respec bear. Problem solved!
stabbington Oct 21st 2009 1:44PM
I think the biggest issue is the fact that DKs and paladins are the most played classes in the game and that druids have four "different" specs while all other classes only have 3.
Take a smaller class, give them more options, and of course you're going to have fewer people pick any specific one.
Now toss in the fact that kitty and tree have both been extremely overpowered at different points (and both are still very strong), [i]and[/i] the fact that bear spec is the only one of the four you'd never bring to PvP for any reason, and I'd say bears show up about as often as you would expect them to.
I've played a feral on the leading edge of progression for the entire expansion, and we've been great as bears the whole time, going all the way back to Sarth 3D. You can complain about boredom if you want, but the bear threat rotation is no worse than the pally 9-6-9 or anything DKs do.
nocauze Oct 21st 2009 3:20PM
Well, I'm not 80 on my druid yet (and i probably wont be until i can paid race change him to a troll, raptor deeps, turtle tank and bat flight PLZ BIizz :D) but i agree about the no armor on char lack of incentives to gear up and especially the lack of decent tank itemization/limited moveset in each form, but how about the following solutions. . .
1) For the gear issue have a talent that makes it so any agi or atkpwr or what ever dps stats the crazy kids are flocking to these days, or the caster druid set stats, and convert them to tanking bonuses, i.e. atk to defense, int to sta or something as a percentage or ratio or something that is balanced, and easy enough to understand so that when a guy sees that uber dps helm drop or that sweet druid set teir piece hell know its a clear upgrade/downgrade and wont have to compete for it as much.
2)For the moveset, how about a feral talent that allows you to keep an "aura" or something that lasts for a few seconds/cast time After you shapeshift out of bear/cat/any form that would allow you to keep your bonuses (or a percentage thereof) which you could use to throw on a couple of attacks as a different form. Like shifting to cat for a few extra bleeds or to caster for an innervate while being covered by a bear aura that doesnt have the boss rape you while you try and give some of that utility you pay for with limited abilities in each form.
3) For gear and whatnot, there are already werebear/wolf/cat whatnot models in the game why not expand on that idea by making dire bear form more humanoid with a head swap and then allowing gear to show, or for a simpler solution (maybe) have some of the textures and glows from the tier pieces apply to the skin of the forms; like on the bear shoulder tattoos would change to a more epic tattoo with glowing ink.
anyway sorry for wall of text comment, but i loved(will love again when hes the right race ;D) playing a druid just for the quick shifting concept and variety of playstyles they offer.
Noctune Oct 28th 2009 4:14PM
As a Bear tank my self i can see big validity in the discussion.
the bear arse (sorry) is not very pretty and i think i have to fetch a Screenshot someday with me tanking with back against wall 90% of screen is now a big bear arse. 10% is the edges where i see nothing but the boss basicly its like stirring in to a furry rug ... NOT very appealing.
and paladins don't complain about us needing yet another set of gear. let me rephraze my self. as a Druid you still need more sets. some is working for both setups CAT/BEAR but basicly Enchants, gems etc make it more or less mandatory to get 2 setups anyway.
Besides there isn't a bear tank i know of who doesn't keep atleast two diferent setups for Tanking either 1# focusing on HP 2# focusing on Dodge/ Evasion.
besides the Cat gear, and the caster gear and the PVP gear .. basicly my bank is full of gear i "Could" use for a certain setup.
And there is alot of diference between a paladin who need a plate tanking set (who get it from OFFSPEC once the tanks get it) then a Bear druid who gets to compeete with every piece of gear with Hunters/DK/ for weapons, Hunters/Rouges/Shamans/Cat druids for neclaces . the Rings/Trinkets got useless +Parry stats .... and the Leather gear i compete with the dps ... consider to a normal 25man raid you bring 2-4tanks, 5-7healers and 14-16 DPS lets assume that 50% of the DPS is Rouges,Shaman,Druid cats, DK, Hunters well that means that they (7-8ppl ) are going to compete with you on your gear. while the warrior/paladin/DK tanks doesn't compete on gear with more then 1 -3 other ppl. thats 200-600% diference.
but the main thing I hate about druid is the tanking aginst wall image. i can't see shit.
Andrige Oct 21st 2009 4:57PM
Honestly I think it's because beartanking is so utterly boring.
What was added since Wrath came into the tanking bears life?
Basically nothing, a Berserk cooldown and replacing any kind of coordination on getting all the adds in a large group replaced with swipeswipeswipeswipe.
There should have been one new ability at the very least that would make tanking more fun, right now it's optimized with ranged Growl, Feral Faerie Fire and 360 Swipe with Maul spam all the time. What the heck happened to being flexible with Feral charge and in general being very mobile in comparison to other tanks? That niche was given away to Warriors who also received our Frenzied Regeneration as well as Shockwave and Heroic Throw.
But foremost Wrath's instance philosophy is what ruined tanking for me at least, AoE does not equal fun in any way. It's basically just dumbing down the game and giving you more numbers on your screen.
And the ass on the new model is just ridiculous, unless they changed it since last time I saw it (not playing WoW any more).
However, this article is probably blowing the issue up a lot. As other people say it's a class with 4 directions.
koreanstructure Oct 22nd 2009 12:16PM
I'd like to speak to the exceedingly high quality of this particular article. I feel like, despite its obvious popularity, that WoWInsider has struggled to find a unique role in the WoW community lately and has instead been simply reporting on news that's already come out from other sources. It's increasingly a collection of YouTube videos and moderately "expert" commentary on patch notes with some screenshots mixed in.
However, this article is the future of WoWInsider. In-depth analysis on the state of a very specific aspect of the game - that doesn't come from anywhere else. This article uses statistics and a balanced approach to the topic. It still has that sheen of "I'll defend my class at any cost" in the writing that is rampant here but I'm ok with that because of the counterpoints presented.
To the editors: please promote more of this type of writing. The style has clearly sparked thoughtful discussion in the comments area.
Sinderion Oct 22nd 2009 5:06AM
Allison, let me first start off by complimenting you on this article. I always look forward to new posts written by you on druids and your quality work on the subject. This article was no exception.
I remember back in the Burning Crusade when I was finally convinced to trade in my Violet Eye ring for the "tanking" one because the Kara group I ran with needed me as an off-tank. Honestly, I would have been fine remaining a cat dps for the experience, but I yielded. From that point on, the steady "passing of bear drops" to me followed. The first time the Tier 5 staff dropped in SCC, it went to me. I think that point in the history of the class is the current Golden Age of Bear tanking. I think that this was the case because we had clear gear that was bear and clear gear that was dps. As the transition into wrath occured, and new bears hit 80, there was a lot of confusion about what we required in the way of gear. The confusion may very well have created the initial impressions of bears as hard to heal. I think much of this initial confusion, as well as misunderstandings and impressions of other people/classes regarding bears have lingered, even with some mild corrections, to this day.
Now, a lot of what you say is completely true. When I began tanking heroics at 80, many healers complained that I was too difficult to heal, with high damage spikes. I think it left such a distaste in my mouth concerning feral tanking, I avoid it even as a historical feral (I only dabbled in resto for a short time, immediately following the release of dual-specs). I still, to some extent, tank in raids, but I have largely accepted a role as a dps feral. Given the rate that druid tanking was going, I opted to dual-spec into dual-feral (cat/bear) and turn tanking into an off-spec. It was a rough day. I still receive "spell-power" leather in the absence of other trees or boomies, largely because I am the only one who can use it. It follows the same instantly in my inventory trend that tanking leather did in BC. I suddenly find myself with a full set of resto gear again, without rolling on it. I am considering dropping bear entirely for a boomie or resto spec, simply because I can add tank in a cat spec anyway, where it is needed.
It makes me wonder what Cataclysm has in store for druids. Especially with the proposed removal of defense, plate tanking may become even simplier to gear, as all they need to tank is a spec change. While making it much simpler for Blizzard to create gear, it might have the unintended effect of creating an upsurge of plate tanks. Who knows? But given the trend we've seen, and very well idenified in your article, it makes me wonder if the decline of bears will continue.
Shang Oct 22nd 2009 7:01AM
Druids should have the option to 'externally and visually' change into one of their forms, or just internal, while staying in their form, but doing the same things they'd do in cat/bear/tree/monokin
So that we can just tank in NE/Tauren form and swiping with our staves instead of our bear paws..
Shang Oct 23rd 2009 4:04AM
Not sure if I made myself clear. Quite confused myself after re-reading it. :)
Basically it's an option like 'show cloak' -> 'show shapeshifts'
So that a tauren that changes into bear remains a tauren but with all the bear abilities..
(see some problems there with weapon skill and the fact of a sneaking tauren... but I'd still like it :p)
Andomar Oct 24th 2009 8:57AM
Here's my two additional reasons. First is the difficulty of heroics. During the Burning Crusade, if you tanked a heroic without wipes, people would remember your name. In WotLK, a good tank doesn't matter, you'll clear the instance anyway.
So now it's easier to push a good bear tank into a dps or healing role, and for leather wearing DPS to ignore a bear and go for a plate tank. And for the bear, what does it really matter? Tanking is not the challenging and fulfilling job it used to be.
Another reason is that bear quality depends in large part on the next patch notes. Bears can go from good tanks to useless tanks with one patch or new raid tier. I remember being a popular tank when 2.0.12 hit. My raid spot was given to a warrior and for good reason. What was really frustrating was that my gear and playstyle didn't matter half as much as the patch notes.
Pack Oct 27th 2009 1:00PM
Druid tanks have been short changed in all wrath .. First off when wrath came out there wasnt a Druid tanking idol .. If you druid tanked you used the old 70 idol .. Second the enchant for a druid tank is a kara drop .. yep thats right good ole Mongoose .. Third hunters using staffs .. No kidding A hunter rolls on a druid tanking staff .. Loses and the raid leader had to actually look up to see if a druid could use a staff..Please give us our weapons back .. Druids cant use a bow or gun .. If you have a hunter in the group you dont give Best in slot bow to the rogue ... I personally am a resto druid since BC, but my best friend has been a druid tank just as long .. And its very painful to see him out rolled for best in slot by a small upgrade for a rogue... Bliz needs to give bears some love.. I'll heal for a good bear anyday over a bad pally..