Patch 5.4 patch notes
Virtual Realms feature revealed
The Proving Grounds are coming
The latest patch 5.4 newsGiving up on conquering WoW
by Mike Schramm 
Oct 26th 2009 at 5:00PM
So now, two months from the end of 2009, let's just say it: it's not possible. World of Warcraft is an aberration, an extremely well-made game that happened to be in just the right time and place (the casual game explosion, the adoption of MMOs and subscription model gaming, the "mainstreaming" of fantasy/sci-fi geekiness) to become an uber megahit. In short, game developers simply can't recreate WoW, at least not on purpose. As BoJ says, that doesn't mean they can't try -- there are certainly lots of original and interesting games and MMOs out there, and it's completely possible to be an MMO that isn't WoW-sized and be successful. But as for the actual question of beating WoW and its worldwide audience, game developers have pretty much moved on.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Blizzard
Reader Comments (Page 5 of 6)
Terethall Oct 26th 2009 7:06PM
Color me a noob, but where was that screenshot taken? It looks like the Shaper's Terrace (with the Etymidian) in Un'Goro, but I'm not at all sure about that.
Blastenheim Oct 26th 2009 7:25PM
That would be Dun Algaz, in Wetlands. One of the soon-to-be raid zones in Cataclysm.
Blastenheim Oct 26th 2009 7:27PM
Disregard that. Brain malfunction. I meant to say Grim Batol.
jbodar Oct 26th 2009 7:34PM
Always check the filename (right-click > Properties) -- grimbatol580.jpg
http://www.wowwiki.com/Grim_batol
Tj Oct 26th 2009 7:29PM
I don't think it will be one competitor that will overtake WoW unless some other manufacturer comes out with a game that is not only entertaining but revolutionizes the genre much in the same was as Warcraft did for RTS.
IMO WoW's losses will be split among their competitors - some will switch to Star Wars (as I would do if I hadn't already invested time and myself into WoW), some to AION (indeed my guild is losing at least three members to AION in protest over the Battle.net drama), and of course there are others out there as well. In the end WoW will still be on top but parity will be closer between the competitors and WoW.
Of course there is also the possibility that the new games will bring new people into the genre of MMOs and they will in turn leave those new games for WoW. After all it happened to me. I started with World of Kung Fu, a pseudo-free MMO and move from it to WoW
Vidi Oct 26th 2009 7:48PM
World of Warcraft is The Beatles of MMO's. The time was right, the audience was ready and the product was amazing. There will never be another WoW unfortunately. I doubt even Blizzard can top this success. Instead of talking about it's end, we should all be thankful we get to be a part of it and enjoy the ride.
Brian Oct 26th 2009 7:47PM
The success of WoW is very much due to the idea that the whole can be greater than the sum of its parts, and that's something that is MUCH harder to improve on than having a "better" list of features. WoW is simply a good game, and it's a good game for a large number of people. WoW "conquerors" inevitably approach the competition with the idea that "our game will be WoW plus X" where 'X' might be better graphics or more PvP or more class choices or more challenging gameplay or whatever. And while they sometimes DO improve on one specific area, the product as a whole isn't as good. They focus so much on what they can add to WoW that they totally miss the mark on even matching what makes WoW great.
Thyrial Oct 26th 2009 7:53PM
It's definite at this point that while WoW still stands strong, no game will overtake it. It's just not feasible really. The thing people seem to miss at the moment is that companies aren't trying to. A game does not have to be anywhere NEAR as successful as WoW to be a profitable and successful MMORPG. Companies aren't putting out games with the idea of beating WoW (and if they are they need to fire whoever thought they could) because the very nature of MMOs makes that almost impossible. There are only two ways for a game to overtake WoW...
1. To pull players from WoW to the new game. While some players may go try new games when they come out, only a small portion actually stay. That's because of both the timesink aspect of MMOs as well as the social nature of the games. If they've been playing WoW for any length of time they probably have friends on WoW and would be reluctant to leave them behind for a new game. There's also the time they've put into their characters in WoW which they don't want to view as a waste.
2. To get a new audience larger then WoWs. It's really impractical to think that this is possible really. WoW's almost universal appeal means that pretty much almost anyone you could get to play an MMO in some way would have ended up playing WoW by now. The exception (as mentioned by someone else already) would be those younger then WoW's target audience really is... but again as has already been said, the problem there is targeting that audience and not losing their intrest as they grow up.
Until WoW falls in on itself nothing will "overtake" it. The thing is though that games don't have to. People keep calling games failures because they don't come near WoW's numbers but they are FAR from failures. People play them and enjoy them and the companies running them are still making money off them.
cmichaelcooper Oct 26th 2009 8:10PM
I didn't read all the comments, so I apologize if this has already been said...
I think the reason WoW does so well is that besides being a game with enough different elements to keep a player busy for years, it was created by a group of game developers that are dedicated story tellers. WoW was able to stand on the shoulders of the RTS Warcraft games, and Warcraft 3 which had bonus missions that were extremely close to what WoW would be.
Despite the horrible grindfest that WoW can be, no other game is as interesting to play because they are trying to create game mechanics, and then justify them with some kind of plot. The story has to come first.
I think when it comes down to it, the only company that will top Blizzard is Blizzard. I pray for the day that they announce a StarCraft MMO. Imagine running around a Zerg home city. Epic. I hope that is what StarCraft 2 will lead into.
Kyale Oct 26th 2009 8:35PM
To put my two cents into the debate, I really see no way a new ip could come out and crush WoW. MMOs are just too audience-specific to really build the kind of game WoW has become. Essentially, thats how WoW started, as was previously mentioned; it started out as a well recognizd but still very specific ip, and due to a whirlwind of good developing and good fortune, became the mainstream giant we know today.
HOWEVER
I do believe there is one more game that has a chance to match WoW. Bioware's baby, ToR. Why? For many reasons i will explain, but most importantly, it is the single biggest, most recognizable ip in sci-fi and fantasy; Star Wars. The ultimate way to reach the main stream audience, since everyone,for good or bad, knows about Star Wars.
Now, i know SWG was nowhere close to WoW, but there are a few things that i think gives ToR an advantage;
1. Bioware. Plain and simple, one of the premier developers in the game today. They just dont make bad games, and they have the respect of the industry
2. The time period; thanks to WoW, MMOs are now mainstream, and acceptable with all parts of society
3. Time; Bioware does not ship incomplete games, and they are taking their time on this one
4. New innovation; a more action oriented experience, and even better, a fully voice game, ToR is packed with stuff to set it out in a crowd
5. Learning Curve; im not talking about playing the game, but making it. Once again, thanks to WoW, the path on how to make a successful and accesible game is already known. The early mistakes and changes to WoW should help guide Bioware in the right direction
6. Backing; this is by no means a small project. The one thing Bioware will not be lacking is money or help. With LucasArts feeding them anything they need, Bioware will not be constrained by the limits of other MMOs
7. Star Wars. nough said
Out of all the possible competition, I think ToR has the best shot at rivaling WoW outside of another Blizzard MMO. Dont get me wrong, i love WoW to death, but they need some competition. There is not a WoW killer out there. But ToR needs to at least rival it in size and power; competition will only be good for both sides. And that just helps us, the gamers, who will reap the benefits of two huge competing MMOs
Darky Oct 27th 2009 11:17AM
At the whole bioware never releases incomplete games thing, if you call kotor 2 complete l doubt your ability to judge games is apt. Seriously the amount of things in that game which were just left hanging or were rushed are enormous (Atton's ability to sense danger? only happens ONCE, even after telling you to keep an eye on him).
Skinwalker Oct 26th 2009 8:58PM
if anything is ever to top WoW, it will be a blizzard made game. they seem to put the most thought and effort into their product. they maintain and improve upon their ideas. they don't release anything unless it is worthy of being purchased.
Dreadskull Oct 26th 2009 9:34PM
MMO Companies need to just not worry at all about "beating" WoW.
Imo, if they focused on what WoW doesn't cover, while adding in the things that WoW does cover, then... they'll definitely be making a successful MMO imo.
LotRO did this somewhat, which... is why I'm finding it really fun right now; in comparison to WoW, LotRO has way more immersion, has a massive, yet still indirect focus on RP (to where there's one server there that's known as "the unofficial RP server") by throwing in so many RP-related things (cosmetic clothing tabs that you can put over your normal stuff, armor dyes, surnames, family trees that you can form, player housing, and much more), and... overall I find it very refreshing from WoW. Not to mention the epic quest lines that they have are just... well, epic. Sure, its PvP is sucky, and its PvE probably isn't the greatest, but... due to its smaller population, it's overall a way better community.
It's really not about beating WoW that they should worry about, it's about catering to the people who aren't that into WoW, and... tbh, I'd rather -prefer- not having a game beat WoW. Why? Because the community for those games will possibly be much better off that way. That's one of the big flaws with WoW imo, is its community (and the stuff I blabbed about that I like in LotRO), because... let's face it, WoW is crawling with horribly immature and noobish players, as well as snobbish elitists, and... it can be really hard at times NOT finding a friendly, real casual (I find that many guilds that claim they're casual, aren't in reality), no-drama guild.
/end rant about WoW
And yes, I see the irony of kind of ranting about WoW on a WoW-themed site.
Dreadskull Oct 26th 2009 9:37PM
TLDR version: Companies need to focus on making a fun game, not try to make a WoW-destroyer game. Chances are they'll be more successful for focusing on areas that WoW doesn't cover very well (if at all), and... so what if they don't get 1 million + players? That just means a more close-knit community + less retarded/immature player base usually.
Tony Montana Oct 26th 2009 10:18PM
I think one of the mistakes we are quick to make when talking about WoW popularity is assuming we are the driving demographic behind World of Warcraft.
World of Warcraft isn't successful because of people who raid 6 nights a week or know Warcraft Mythology like the back of their hand it's successful because of people who don't very often play video games and especially not MMO's.
You go into any casual guild and you will run into a lot of people of various genders and ages that may have never played another MMO before.
I remember the other night on tradechat I ended up mentioning The Old Republic MMO in some detail and people were like "WHAT THERES A STAR WARS MMO?!?!"
World of Warcraft was a gamers delight back in Vanilla WoW days but since then the game has become a much more casual affair. With the brand gaining familiarity over the years and World of Warcraft becoming the standard for an MMO it wasn't long before your average casual saw World of Warcraft as the sort of "go to" MMO.
The reason nothing has been able to challenge Wow's dominance since then is because Blizzard is a multi billion dollar entity now with enormous advertising budgets and a brand that is nearly synonymous with the genre.
How would you expect a brand like Age of Conan with a much smaller advertising budget and less awareness to challenge World of Warcraft? It's the same with Warhammer Online which was in large part a WoW clone and was released prematurely and advertised little.
Fact of the matter is you may get our attention with other MMO's but most average people who make up the bulk of the WoW-population don't often catch sight of other MMO's and that is the key to an WoW's success.
I think when The Old Republic comes out it will really shake up things. At the moment with the Star Wars TV show for kids, the live action TV show coming up next year and the movies being re-released in 3D and on Blu-ray George Lucas is pushing his cashcow hard.
Bioware have been left in charge of the biggest sci-fi IP in history and with an untold budget that allows them to virtually record so much audio the game is making history as we speak. There isn't any doubt George Lucas will push that MMO and if he uses his available resources there isn't any doubt that MMO could do very well.
I have a feeling that MMO will be given a big push by Bioware, EA, and Lucasarts.
One of the things I was wondering was if they would advertise the MMO during the Clone Wars series on Cartoon Network and during the live action series on whatever network it ends up on. Of course they could always advertise it before the 3D re-releases of Star Wars in the cinemas and do novel things like give away a copy of The Old Republic MMO with the blu-ray versions of the movie.
It's ridiculous to expect a game with a tiny budget or little awareness to challenge a mega franchise like Warcraft that is exceptionally well known, advertised in ingenius ways(you can get World of Warcraft labelled Mountain Dew) but Blizzard have really stretched their resources to make World of Warcraft into what it is and few others have such resources available to compete with them.
On the other hand an IP developed by Bioware, endorsed by George Lucas, given a budget no game has ever had and based on "Star Wars" could very well shake up the MMO scene.
I think World of Warcraft will be more than fine regardless of what happens but if Lucas is really intent on bringing back Star Wars in a big way and puts his resources behind the upcoming MMO I think he will get his wish of a Star Wars cash cow that gives in spades and for years to come.
BWJ Oct 27th 2009 12:42AM
You're giving Star Wars WAY too much credit as a draw.
Most people I know simply do not care that much, or are like me, and dislike the hardcore Star Wars crowd, that the game will be packed with. I shudder at the thought of what /general will be like in that game.
The Star Wars crowd is WAY too newb-hostile to support numbers that will even give WoW a momentary pause. Yeah, imagine Mom or Grandma logging in, referring to "Hans Solo", and the abuse and tirades and insults that will fly.
Not only that, but the younger crowd these days are into different things, Star Wars is cool with them, but they don't revere it, or practically worship it like the older players do (and will, in-game). Younger players these days are more into zombies, vampires, Fallout 3 stories, or headshot*BOOM* style gameplay. They live online, and incorporate WOW into that, and use WoW as a large chat room. Star Wars will not encourage that.
I have no doubt SW:TOR will do well, on it's own terms, but eclipse WoW? No. There is already a prejudice built into the public's perception of that community, as being the butt of jokes since the movies came out, and the stereotype of hardcore Star Wars fans being the nerdiest of the basement dwellers. True or not, that stereotype exists, it's used constantly by the media and entertainment industry, and it WILL keep people from grabbing the box from the shelf.
And, like I stated earlier in the thread, there's a lot of people like me who enjoyed the movies, but want nothing to do with that crowd, because I know what Star Wars fans are like.
Shamman22 Oct 27th 2009 4:11AM
BWJ, what server are you on? Because in my experience, any new person asking simple questions in /general in WoW are usually viciously mocked and given a hard time, thereby making WoW not as newb-friendly as some like to pretend.
Also, you state that younger players won't/don't care about star wars. Who cares? The people with the money are older. The average gamer age now is 25-35. I don't imagine many of those gamers will stop playing the day ToR arrives on the shelves. I think that the "star wars nerd" perception will have little to do with people playing the game or not. It isn't exactly cool the tell people that your a WoW player. If the game is better than WoW, people will make the switch.
The point has been raised, that no one can compete with WoW because it's had 5 years to refine the game. That is a completely wrong way to think of it. The idea is that every year the game is out, it only gets better and better, as if it's a naturally evolving creature. Substantial growth, generally makes companies worse. Think GM, IBM, Atari...etc. Here's what happens once something becomes very huge and successful. There are demands made by the stockholders for more and more profits. In order the do this, they have to appeal to a wider and wider audience, or take shortcuts. When this happens, the product, whatever it is, becomes watered down, shoddily made (planned obsolescence is introduced), etc. Eventually the end product becomes bland, people move on, and the size of the thing causes it to collapse in on itself. WoW will definitely be around for a while, just look at EQ. I think it may be more vulnerable to competition from another great MMO than a lot of fans are willing to admit.
onetrueping Oct 27th 2009 6:40AM
"You're giving Star Wars WAY too much credit as a draw.
Most people I know simply do not care that much, or are like me, and dislike the hardcore Star Wars crowd, that the game will be packed with. I shudder at the thought of what /general will be like in that game."
Can't be any worse than the /general in WoW, really. No matter what server I'm on, I turn it off immediately and never look back.
"The Star Wars crowd is WAY too newb-hostile to support numbers that will even give WoW a momentary pause. Yeah, imagine Mom or Grandma logging in, referring to "Hans Solo", and the abuse and tirades and insults that will fly."
Mankrik's Wife? Every fanbase has it's noisy, hostile elements, and these elements are always louder than the nice guys. It doesn't matter what they are fans of. Remember the outcry at the "inaccuracies" when the Lord of the Rings movies came out? The vicious mockery, IN PERSON, of people who thought the movie came out first? How about the "console wars," are they hurting sales? Or... Mac vs PC.
"Not only that, but the younger crowd these days are into different things, Star Wars is cool with them, but they don't revere it, or practically worship it like the older players do (and will, in-game). Younger players these days are more into zombies, vampires, Fallout 3 stories, or headshot*BOOM* style gameplay. They live online, and incorporate WOW into that, and use WoW as a large chat room. Star Wars will not encourage that."
Which is why the new trilogy did so well, or the (for kids) Clone Wars movie, or the merchandising machine targeted at kids...
Star Wars is pretty popular with kids these days because they are growing up with it. Like they did with zombies, vampires, and FPS games. And Fallout 3 really doesn't enter into it (the original three games are over a decade old, but still produced a huge draw, despite the fiasco of the last attempt at a console Fallout). Also, younger kids are more interested in games like Free Realms, Maple Story, and the like, which are free (so the parents don't mind) to start, and generally more kid-friendly. WoW is very much a late-teens-to-twenty-something game, with enough depth to bring in even older gamers.
"I have no doubt SW:TOR will do well, on it's own terms, but eclipse WoW? No. There is already a prejudice built into the public's perception of that community, as being the butt of jokes since the movies came out, and the stereotype of hardcore Star Wars fans being the nerdiest of the basement dwellers. True or not, that stereotype exists, it's used constantly by the media and entertainment industry, and it WILL keep people from grabbing the box from the shelf."
You mean like satanic D&D players? Yeah, that's really keeping the crowds from buying those games, which are even more popular than ever. EVERY community has stereotypes, and the Star Wars stereotype was no worse than the Fantasy Nerd stereotype. And since Star Wars is very much more in the public consciousness since the new trilogy and CG movie, and is hugely popular already in the gaming community, I doubt any ancient stereotype will keep people from buying a box.
"And, like I stated earlier in the thread, there's a lot of people like me who enjoyed the movies, but want nothing to do with that crowd, because I know what Star Wars fans are like."
Speaking as someone who belongs to MULTIPLE fanbases, including both Warcraft and Star Wars (and more besides), I can safely say that the game will be much better without the outspoken fanbois like yourself. Your argument has consisted of nothing but bashing other people for liking something more than you do, and blaming them for the same activity you just actively participated in. It may be more politically correct than putting people down for their ethnicity, but it's no less bigoted. Good day, sir.
Tony Montana Oct 27th 2009 9:34PM
BWJ you are so ill informed that you have no clue what you are talking about.
1: Giving Star Wars too much credit as a draw?
Hmm yeah it's only the most profitable single entertainment franchise in human history. Neither World of Warcraft nor anything else even comes close to Star Wars in what it has accomplished in terms of popularity, merchandise sales or movie revenue.
To make matters worse you assume you know "most people". The people that watched the first movie alone are in the tens of millions. The few people you know are not even a tiny portion of the amount familiar with the brand.
You make things even worse for yourself by suggesting Star Wars fans are all composed of hardcore fans. Star Wars wasn't the first sci-fi movie it was the first commercial sci-fi movie. Most hardcore sci-fi fans won't mention Star Wars in the same breath as Dune or Star Trek. Star Wars fans are composed massively of average men, women and children going to watch the movies or watching the childrens programs or buying action figures.
2: OK this is where you can tell you are talking out of your ass. What you have just said is categorically incorrect.
Star Wars is over 25 years old but it has never been this popular at any point in its entire history.
When the second trilogy came out Lucas said he wasn't sure if it was going to be successful. When it did come out it blew away the first trilogy in sales.
After that the DVD's came out and sold millions. They re-released several versions of the DVD's and all of them sold exceedingly well.
After the movie and DVD release Lucas was going to focus on other things but the overwhelming success of Star Wars prompted them to release light saber toys and action figures. The overwhelming success of the light sabers(which cost a fortune by the way) and action figures prompted them to release a cartoon on Cartoon Network.
That show did so well they started making the second season of it only 3 or 4 episodes into the first.
The success of the last trilogy prompted them to re-release the movies in 3D in cinemas, the success of the DVD's prompted them to release special edition Blu-ray editions of the movies and the success of the kids animated TV series prompted them to record one of the most expensive and lenghty TV shows in TV history.
Their next move is going into comic books and expanding the universe throughout games.
George Lucas thought the Star Wars franchise was done but when the second trilogy came to the theater and DVD he ditched his plan to move on from the franchise. Star Wars has simple never been this popular in its history. They have more revenue streams now than ever before.
3: Again you are talking out of your ass. When a franchise releases a movie trilogy that comes one of the highest box office takes in history followed by DVD sets that break records and then a toy line that makes a fortune followed by an animated show that becomes a networks biggest draw you can tell a franchise is doing more than well.
There is an insatiable demand for Star Wars. Everything Lucas has touched these last 8 or 9 years has been phenomenally successful beyond comprehension. Star Wars is literally in a world of its own right now in terms of revenue streams and money made.
Stop making yourself look like an ass you can easily look up recent figures of how well the franchise is doing. It's beyond stupid to say it's offputting for people because of nerds of any of that BS when the franchises fanbase is incomprehinsibly big and growing yearly.
Vince Oct 26th 2009 11:01PM
I quit WoW some time ago (but sometimes browse this blog to see what's new).
I'd like to see an MMO that isn't one long grind, but something that I could log in for 15-30 mins and have fun.
The higher level I got in WoW, the grindier it became. Craft skills, travel, quests, everything seems to take longer and less fun.
Maybe if they depended less on see-it-once content, but instead re-usable content (BG's are a good example), there would be less race to the top as it is now. This makes all the lower level content abandoned. I like Westfall and Redridge. I wish there was a reason to go there are level 60, 70, 80.
I'd also like to see more dynamic guilds. I really liked Asheron Call's patron/vassal guild model.