PTR Patch 3.3: Patch notes updated
by Adam Holisky 
Oct 27th 2009 at 7:53PM
Some major highlights (although you should really read everything after the break, all of it is very important):
- Players who take part in groups who have one or more members who have been matched with them randomly from within the Dungeon System will receive extra rewards, up to and including the coveted Perky Pug non-combat pet. The more random players with whom one groups, the faster the pet can be obtained.
- Players can be placed in a group for a random dungeon no more than once every 15 minutes.
- The Need Before Greed loot system will be the unalterable default looting system for pick-up groups in the Dungeon System and has been updated.
- Need Before Greed will now recognize gear appropriate for a class in three ways: the class must be able to equip the item, pure melee will be unable to roll on spell power items, and classes are limited to their dominant armor type (ex. paladins for plate). All items will still be available via Greed rolls as well as the new Disenchant option should no member be able to use the item.
- Players will be able to roll on items with a required minimum level higher than a player's current level.
- LFG channel has returned to being a realm-wide channel accessible in any city!
General
- Will of the Forsaken now shares a 45-second cooldown with similar effects, including the Medallion of the Horde, Titan-Forged runes, Insignia of the Horde, etc.
- Predatory Strikes: The Predatory Swiftness buff from this talent now has an 8-second duration.
- Sacred Shield: The damage absorption effect from this ability now triggers only once every 30 seconds.
- Infusion of Light: This talent now also reduces the cooldown on the effect of Sacred Shield by 12/24 seconds.
- Divine Guardian: This talent no longer increases the amount of damage transferred to the paladin from Divine Sacrifice. Instead it causes all raid and party members to take 10/20% reduced damage while Divine Sacrifice is active. In addition, the duration has been changed to 6 seconds, however the effect does not terminate when Divine Sacrifice is removed before its full duration.
- This feature has replaced the Looking For Group tool and provides all-new dungeon party creation functionality.
- Players can join as individuals, as a full group, or a partial group to look for additional party members.
- Groups using this tool will be able to teleport directly to the selected instance. Upon leaving the instance, players will be returned to their original location. If any party member needs to temporarily leave the instance for reagents or repairs, they will have the option to teleport back to the instance.
- Players can choose the Random Dungeon option.
- The Heroic Wrath of the Lich King Daily Random Dungeon option will award two Emblems of Frost no more than once a day.
- The normal Wrath of the Lich King Daily Random Dungeon option will award two Emblems of Triumph no more than once a day.
- Continuing to complete Wrath of the Lich King Heroic instances using the Daily Random Dungeon option will award players two additional Emblems of Triumph each time.
- Daily Heroic and normal dungeon quests have been removed. These quests have been replaced with weekly raid quests (see the "Quests" section for details).
- Level-approp
riate rewards will be offered to players who choose the Random Dungeon option for pre-Wrath of the Lich King dungeons. - Players can be placed in a group for a random dungeon no more than once every 15 minutes.
- Random Dungeon rewards will be placed in each player's inventory automatically upon completion of the dungeon (final boss killed). A pop-up notification will display any rewards earned through the Dungeon System.
- Instead of choosing a random dungeon, players can also choose specific dungeons appropriate for their level range. Multiple instances can be selected at one time. The feature no longer limits the choice to look for only 3 dungeon groups at one time.
- Pick-Up Groups
- Cross-realm instances are now available and use an improved matchmaking system to assist players in looking for additional party members. As with Battlegrounds, the realms in each Battlegroup are connected.
- As part of the matchmaking system, some of the more difficult dungeons will have a minimum gear requirement. Players also need to meet the requirements for dungeons that require attunement, such as keys or quests. If a player does not meet the requirements for a particular dungeon, a lock icon will be displayed next to that dungeon. Hovering over this icon will display the requirements which have not been met.
- Only conjured items and loot dropped in a dungeon for which other party members are eligible can be traded between players from different realms.
- A Vote Kick feature will be available in the event a member of a party is not performing to the expectations of the other members.
- Players who leave the group prematurely are subject to a Deserter debuff preventing them from using the Dungeon System tool for 15 minutes.
- If an existing group loses a member, the leader will be asked if he or she wants to continue the dungeon. Choosing to continue will automatically place the group back into the Dungeon System queue.
- A Player will not be placed in a group with people on his or her Ignore list.
- Players who take part in groups who have one or more members who have been matched with them randomly from within the Dungeon System will receive extra rewards, up to and including the coveted Perky Pug non-combat pet. The more random players with whom one groups, the faster the pet can be obtained.
- The Need Before Greed loot system will be the unalterable default looting system for pick-up groups in the Dungeon System and has been updated.
- Need Before Greed will now recognize gear appropriate for a class in three ways: the class must be able to equip the item, pure melee will be unable to roll on spell power items, and classes are limited to their dominant armor type (ex. paladins for plate). All items will still be available via Greed rolls as well as the new Disenchant option should no member be able to use the item.
- Players will be able to roll on items with a required minimum level higher than a player's current level.
There is a new Looking For Raid option available to players that can be accessed via the Raid Information screen in the interface or by typing "/LFR."
- Players will be able to browse the system manually for any other players looking for a raid dungeon group.
- While browsing LFR players may sort the list ascending or descending by left-clicking the following headers: Name, Level, Class, Tank Role, Healer Role, and Damage Role. The crown is the Leader Role (representing a raid group with 2 or more people). Players can left-click on this header to sort the list with groups at the top or at the bottom.
- Hovering over players listed in LFR will display their name, class, level, roles and comments. Hovering over a raid/group will display the leader's name, the raid information (number of people the raid), comments, if there are any bosses dead (and which ones), and if there are any friends from your Friends list or ignored players from your Ignore list in the raid group.
- The Looking For Group chat channel has returned and can be accessed in all major cities (similar to the Trade chat channel) without the use of the Dungeon system interface.
- Players may only be queued or listed in one of the following systems at a time: Dungeons, LFR, Battlegrounds, or Arenas.
- Ignore List: The amount of characters a person can ignore has been increased to 50. In addition, players on other realms can be placed on the Ignore list.
- Commendation Badges which award reputation with various Wrath of the Lich King factions can be purchased with Emblems of Triumph in Dalaran.
- Sceptor of Celebras: Since this item is no longer needed as a key, Celebras will no longer give one out to a player who loses it. The item can now be sold or disenchanted as normal.
Patch 3.3 is the last major patch of Wrath of the Lich King. With the new Icecrown Citadel 5-man dungeons and 10/25-man raid arriving soon, patch 3.3 will deal the final blow to the Arthas. WoW.com's Guide to Patch 3.3 will keep you updated with all the latest patch news.Filed under: Patches, News items
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 10)
Dreadpyre Oct 27th 2009 8:05PM
I like what there doing with the Need before Greed loot system. I was worried about ninjas in these pick up groups.
Taladan Oct 27th 2009 9:42PM
I really hope all that doesn't apply to BoE items. I run a lot of dungeons with my paladin tank and I like to take BoE to my warlock alt for disenchanting. I really don't mind passing BoPs (they are absolute no use for my paladin and I can't trade with the lock).
If BoEs allows people to roll "DE", I bet a lot of people will drop some professions just to be able to roll for those items.
Evil Midnight Lurker Oct 27th 2009 10:32PM
Why drop professions? If you roll DE under this system, the game disenchants it for you, no need to have Enchanting.
brian Oct 27th 2009 10:48PM
Plus, it looks like they're making Greed=DE for priority. So it will basically still be Need>Greed, but if you want your greed roll disenchanted just hit DE.
Gemini Oct 27th 2009 11:12PM
The Disenchant roll does NOT automatically DE it. It works identical to the Greed roll except that Greed takes priority over it. It's merely a way to flag to others that you can DE and that's why you're rolling on it. You still have to do the work yourself.
thebitterfig Oct 27th 2009 11:37PM
The thing is, this seems like a reasonably good way to deal with bad players and ninjas, but a fairly terrible way to deal with honest players who understand that loot can be a little more complex. Need/Greed is just too few options in today's world of offspecs, combined with dropping down from higher armor types.
It's bad if the mage can't gear up because some druids and shamans keep ninjaing the cloth caster helm. However, the same druids and shamans should probably get a fair roll against the holy priest who is thinking about building a shadow set without having to worry that it will be greeded by a rogue or warrior or someone else for enchanting mats or vendoring.
If you're able to trade the items there in the instance, then good. However the scuttlebutt is that cross-faction trade doesn't work, so a lot of honest players might wind up screwed out of loot because blizzard still thinks Need and Greed are sufficient choices.
Byron Oct 27th 2009 11:59PM
FYI, the DE option only appears on the loot window if an Enchanter is in the group. If no enchanter, no DE option. I assume the Enchanter also has to have a high enough level to DE the items, but haven't seen any confirmation of that yet.
Eskarel Oct 28th 2009 1:15AM
@thebitterfig
Or people could just realize that PUGs aren't guild runs and act accordingly.
People run PUG runs to gear up their offspec. It's most of the reason you can still get runs. You've got to face the fact that folks are going to roll need on off spec items quite fairly. The same holds true for lower armor types, personally I don't like mixing armour types if possible, but if it's an upgrade and you need it, it's a need item.
Personally I ask before I roll need on an OS item, and if I'm running something for a specific purpose I'll let folks know when I start, but that's really more of a courtesy than anything else.
PUGs are not guild runs. Everyone in a PUG who is interested in gear from that dungeon or raid is running it to gear themselves, not you. This is especially the case for cross server runs where you may never see the person again.
When you run PUGs you take the risks. Sometimes you end up with 4 other people all looking for that same piece of loot, sometimes you're the only dps caster in the group and you can win solo need rolls on 6 consecutive drops.
PUGs, and for that matter WoW are mostly about luck, sometimes you win, and sometimes you lose. All sorts of systems are put into place to try and control the randomness(DKP, mainspec before offspec), but these are generally based on the idea that you entitled to loot for some reason and make it more fair for you and less fair for others. That's fine if you're running with a guild because there are other issues(attendance, progression) etc which are rewarded for the good of the group. PUGs don't have that.
Like I said, I usually ask, and I try to be polite(if I win an earlier epic I'll pass for someone else, sometimes to my great later regret), but PUGs are selfish places, and if you really expect the people you play with to value your main spec more than their offspec you ought to stick with premades.
Xeraxan Oct 28th 2009 7:55AM
Also @jitterbug
They've stated that you can only roll on gear that your character can wear, being the top level. Druids/rogues can only roll on leather, not cloth. Hunters/shaman can only roll on mail, not leather or cloth (unless they are below level 40, in which case they can roll on leather) and that also applies to warriors/pallies/dks.
Liq Oct 28th 2009 10:36AM
@Eskarel and @Xeraxan
Did you guys even read thebitterfigs comment? Neither one of your responses actually made any sense in addressing what he said.
I whole heartedly agree with him and this was exactly my first thought when reading the armor class restriction.
I play an ele shammy and I will not need a cloth item over a clothie who needs it, but if they don't need it main spec and I do (due to the god effing awful itemization on mail for shammies) I don't have that ability anymore in this system and that is not cool.
Has nothing to do with guild runs or ninjas or taking chances.
thebitterfig Oct 28th 2009 10:57AM
i look at the tradeable BoP items in instances, and see that this very clearly was a major improvement. it allowed honest players to correct any mistakes made in rolling, which is good for players and took stress off GMs. if there isn't some sort of way for the players themselves to address mistakes, that's bad. prime example of a mistake: rather than need against a ret paladin on a plate or weapon drop, the DK tank rolls greed, but looses the roll to DE. most honest players will just trade the item on their own to the person who needed it, i know i have several times, and i've had people do the same for me. however, if cross-server trades don't work, an overly limited rolling system *will* cause problems.
player behavior can make it better. if the DK tank knew beforehand that the paladin wouldn't need that item and rolled need, that's great. i'll tell the group beforehand if i want to roll on offspec, or if it is a slightly odd item type, but a lot of the time rolls have been made before you finish typing.
the most important thing is that blizzard makes it possible for players in the pug to correct mistakes themselves.
if they can't do that, bliz only has to add one new category to the rolling system: "need", "greed for use", "greed for cash or mats". see how much better that is? need will still be limited by usability, with looser restrictions on "greed for use" (spellpower/attack power is probably sufficient), but it separates someone who will use the item from someone who just wants the money.
chipersoft Oct 28th 2009 11:43AM
@Liq: Only the Need button will enforce player types, greed will still let you roll on anything. So if no clothy in the group needs the drop, you can greed roll on it and get priority over disenchanting.
Liq Oct 28th 2009 11:56AM
@chipersoft
Almost 100% positive that is not true, greed and de are the same priority. So you see the problem. Not to mention plenty of lazy people will still probably just greed.
What it will take if you want an off armor class piece of gear, if my understanding is correct, is a discussion with your pug to please pass on a piece of gear if it drops before hand. Or it seems as tho a pug will be able to trade normally tradeable items after the fact, from everything I've read, which I really really hope it stays that way.
Adamanthis Oct 28th 2009 12:03PM
"if they can't do that, bliz only has to add one new category to the rolling system: "need", "greed for use", "greed for cash or mats". see how much better that is?"
I like it. Though "Greed for use" could perhaps be more accurately named, since greed is intended to convey that the item will be sold or disenchanted. Perhaps "Primary Need" (optimal gear for your current spec), "Secondary Need" (covering things like off-spec gear, cloth for a resto druid, something healer-oriented that is nonetheless an upgrade for a mage, etc.) and finally Greed and Disenchant buttons, that work as they did before on the PTR, on the same level roll. The only technical requirement for "Secondary Need" should simply be whether your class is able to equip the item.
If Greed and Disenchant are still on the same level, the new system overall is terrible, particularly for druids, shamans, and paladins, who often go down one armor type, sacrificing a few armor points for substantial upgrades in stats that are far more vital.
thebitterfig Oct 28th 2009 2:52PM
From one Blizzard official Blue poster or another: "If the Dungeon System is used to complete a group for a dungeon then non-temporary items will not be able to be traded in the instance. [...] There will be some exceptions to this restriction though as Bind-on-Pickup items will continue to be trade-able to those present for the kill for a short duration[.]"
Tradeable BoP will solve the potential problems entirely for honest groups. I'm still worried that cloth will get DE'd even though a druid can use it (if an enchanter of level is in the group, DE roll will autoshard it as shards will be non-tradeable even though the BoP drops are tradeable). That said, I'm a lot less worried than i was before.
Go one step further bliz and separate greed-for-use and greed-for-non-use.
Taladan Oct 28th 2009 3:42PM
Just to make clear, I mentioned BoEs 'cause selected "DE" was winning over "Greed" when I tested the PTR.
At the same time, I reckon the PTR is not a good place to test that, since every premade character have maxed Enchanting and Jewelcrafting.
ecwfrk Oct 28th 2009 10:50PM
The new Need Before Greed system is setup to be as fair as possible so everyone who runs it has a chance at winning loot even if your group is made up of you and 4 Chinese Gold Farmers.
It's meant to minimize the detrimental effect dishonest people in a PuG can have. Good groups can still use the system to distribute loot in a more logical fashion but in groups where that doesn't happen this minimizes the effect a DK who would roll need on everything can have on a run.
And "greed for use" would be "Need" IMO. A bad group would roll whichever has the higher priority regardless of their intent and a good group wouldn't need the extra option.
static_imagery Nov 19th 2009 7:52PM
@Taladin
The problem with your comment is that u need the necessary requirement to disenchant, if the item requires 275 say, someone in your group has to have 275 or more to d/e. In addition the item that becomes d/e, is rolled for and then distributed to the highest bidder, making for a smooth operation. This will eliminate waiting for the disenchanter at the end of the instance to distribute the mats, or in some cases ninja the mats.
So dropping a profession or just learning enchanting at its basic level won't make u a 275 or more enchanter/ess.
chayes81 Oct 27th 2009 8:05PM
I can hear it now...millions of undead....screaming....rotten jaws....falling.... everywhere....
Chris Oct 27th 2009 9:25PM
I thought they were planning on improving racials.