Patch 3.3 PTR: Ghostcrawler explains Paladin changes
by Zach Yonzon 
Oct 28th 2009 at 7:00AM
Ghostcrawler said that he didn't "want to promise (they) won't change the spell for 3.3," but that players also shouldn't "worry too much on the Lay on Hands change at this point" since it didn't make it to the latest PTR build. He explains in the forums that Paladins are no longer just a support class (as they were for quite a long time), but that all the abilities over time have contributed to making the class feel like a "one-man army" that is able to play offensively, defensively, and essentially take on more challenges without having to change stances, forms, or even specs. In a rather snippy response to a troll crying (with My Little Pony blanket in hand) in the forums, Ghostcrawler simply said, "Dear OP, Bye. Hugs, GC."
Discussing the Sacred Shield change as soon as we got wind of it, I argued to the WoW.com team that it was a Retribution PvP nerf more than anything, and a push for Holy to use it more in its focused healing kit. Although it does hurt Paladin tanks, Ghostcrawler states that Blizzard's "overall goal is to make Ret less tanky." Guess what? Retribution only really "tanks" in PvP, where the repeated nerfs to the spec's burst has altered its playstyle to become one about survivability. With the nerf to Sacred Shield and the planned nerf to Lay on Hands, that survivability diminishes massively.
With retribution burst nerfed to the proverbial ground, and survivability seemingly about to fall on its face, there's still no sign of the much asked for PvP utility to compensate for the removal of burst (Paladins never got out of the bargaining stage, apparently). It had gotten to the point that protection had become a much more viable, fun, and admittedly OP spec to PvP with, necessitating some nerfs to the protection tree which continue with Patch 3.3. This includes the possible nerf to Lay on Hands (put down those pitchforks, people, the nerf isn't even live on the PTR yet) which would be, to put it bluntly, stinky and messy as Murloc poop.
The good news is that, again, this is still just the PTR. Things can still change, and this is why it's being tested. The hope is that Lay on Hands will come out of it unscathed, but again, Ghostcrawler didn't promise anything (no more promises from the crab!). If I were to venture a guess, the iconic spell will likely still get nerfed to a degree. Stay tuned to the PTR and WoW.com, and hold on to your pink undies.
Patch 3.3 is the last major patch of Wrath of the Lich King. With the new Icecrown Citadel 5-man dungeons and 10/25-man raid arriving soon, patch 3.3 will deal the final blow to the Arthas. WoW.com's Guide to Patch 3.3 will keep you updated with all the latest patch news.Filed under: Paladin, Patches, Analysis / Opinion
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 17)
Morgwatt Oct 28th 2009 7:07AM
Woohoo!!!
Marita Oct 28th 2009 7:56AM
that sounded too suspiciously like a fury warrior :P
Paultab Oct 28th 2009 10:04AM
I hate Ret Paladins as much as anyone else, but the possible Lay on Hands nerf would be waay over the top.
outlier Oct 28th 2009 10:23AM
I've Played Paladin since its been horde and I've lived through countless ups and downs and have always thought that if I didn't understand exactly why it was happening, it was perhaps for the greater good of the game somehow. I've even put up with paying for the Blizzcon stream and seeing my class be the punchline in repeated jokes and it annoyed me. Now with this
Ghostcrawler simply said, "Dear OP, Bye. Hugs, GC."
this is the first time I really truly honestly am considering whether I want my $.50 a day going to pay this guys salary. This isn't a flame "OMG I quit wow and Ima play AION/Warhammer/AOC etc" but its a, gee, do I really want to stay at a party where I am a punchline? There is a point where you can have a sense of humor about these things and a pont where it becomes harassment.
t0xic Oct 28th 2009 10:30AM
They need to take some schizophrenia meds and decide what they want from the class.
This just looks like Paladin birth control. They have too many paladins in the game, and they want people to put a condom on.
Farthing Oct 28th 2009 11:00AM
A few things regarding LoH:
-not every class has a 20 min cd ability
-Classes that do, that I can think of: Paladin, Warlock, Druid, Shaman
-two of those four(shammie, drood) are res abilities
-One of them is cool, but too underpowed to be useful (Warlock inferno)
Most of these abilities are really cool and Iconic in some way. As a Warrior, it's painful to see that hp bar that I worked so hard to drop suddenly refill. I still don't want to see it nerfed though. It isn't usable in arenas, and on a 20 min cooldown, it should be really cool.
The problem is that other classes don't have 20 min cooldowns. The res aspect of the druid and shaman classes' cooldowns is lost in bgs due to the autores setup, Inferno has always been awkward, but LoH has always had a purpose, and could be used in pvp because its only useful pre-death. This is the wrong way to do things. Blizz definitely wants to do cooler things with class abilities, just look at DK abilities. Nerfing paladins after so long is just a waste. We can deal with it.
For once instead of "taxing" everyone into the ground, bring everyone up to the same level.
joggoms Oct 28th 2009 11:07AM
Let 'em keep Lay on Hands. I love beating down a paladin, watching it use Lay on Hands, and proceeding to kill it again.
Extrox Oct 28th 2009 11:30AM
@ Outlier
OP told a Dev to DIAF and gets banned.
All in all, well deserved.
(cutaia) Oct 28th 2009 11:51AM
Outlier,
Ghostcrawler responded specifically to the OP (i.e. original poster) who created a thread titled, "Ghostcrawler, DIAF" (i.e die in a fire).
Someone told Ghostcrawler that he should die because the development team is considering a change to a freakin' game and he simply said, "Bye," before banning him.
You really must have read into this the complete wrong way, because he in no way mocked you or any paladins.
outlier Oct 28th 2009 11:54AM
No edit button so Original Post
-------------------------------------------
I've Played Paladin since its been horde and I've lived through countless ups and downs and have always thought that if I didn't understand exactly why it was happening, it was perhaps for the greater good of the game somehow. I've even put up with paying for the Blizzcon stream and seeing my class be the punchline in repeated jokes and it annoyed me. Now with this
Ghostcrawler simply said, "Dear OP, Bye. Hugs, GC."
this is the first time I really truly honestly am considering whether I want my $.50 a day going to pay this guys salary. This isn't a flame "OMG I quit wow and Ima play AION/Warhammer/AOC etc" but its a, gee, do I really want to stay at a party where I am a punchline? There is a point where you can have a sense of humor about these things and a pont where it becomes harassment.
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Edit;Going through the linked forum posts I now see that "OP" was a person and not the "OP" associated with the "over-Powered" label. That part of my statement i retract. As far as the LOH situation goes, I'll believe it and any other changes when I see them load when 3.3 is downloading. I agree that there are many Paladins in the game but I always sort of thought that this was partially due to the visual appeal/lore behind the Paladin class. That said, if we are going to somehow apply a sort of checks and balances to classes based on population representation, we are entering a dangerous world where non-mechanic, non-mathematical issues are impacting in-game balancing simply to draw players to less played classes.
Philip Oct 28th 2009 12:30PM
Maybe it's just me, but I get a sense from a great many of the "devs" (and it isn't just GC) that they've lost any sense of humility.
They are not dealing with a rabid "fan base" (GC's definition of paying customers, not mine).
I am not a fanboy.
My parents don't pay for my account.
I have other options.
I'm an over 30 paying customer who is beginning to find Blizzard's repeated condescension a bit annoying. Only in WoW is having millions of customers a built-in excuse for failure.
Let the rate downs commence, it matters not to me. What does matter is that people who pay for this product start holding the people who provide the product responsible for the way they address concerns about the game.
Raz Oct 28th 2009 1:27PM
I think Outlier was under the impression that the "OP" was for Over-Powered, as opposed to Original Poster. While that would've been funnier, it's not the case- but I can see where there might be some confusion if one isn't familiar with forums.
Treason Oct 28th 2009 2:21PM
The original poster (OP) told the devs to die in a fire....
I honestly think that GC's flippancy was warranted there.
crunk Oct 28th 2009 2:29PM
Well Pallys, welcome to the Nerfclub... Hi I'm a Huntard.
shiplore Oct 28th 2009 2:31PM
@ Phillip...condescension?
Please Blizzard and GC are anything but. IF you start off your arguement by saying "Die in a fire" you deserve to be ridiculed. I can't recall one well thought out post that was ever responded to with scorn from any Blizz. YOU troll or say stupid things and act like a 13 year old brat, you'l be treated like one.. not really shocking. As for the Blizzcon jokes? You might want to lighten up.. most people who are pally-mains find it funny.
catharsis80 Oct 28th 2009 3:05PM
Just want to point out that Outlier is correct about Paladins being a punchline. Ret pallies were poked fun at by friggin Blizzard themselves at Blizzcon. Alas, I feel I must link these yet again as an example...
http://www.wowhead.com/?npc=35576
http://www.wowhead.com/?npc=35575
A small portion of whiners among paladins that post on Blizzard forums, then people react by ostracizing all paladins. It's like a video game version of flagrant prejudice at its finest. I mean good grief, Blizzard: YOU'RE the ones who design the Paladin. If they're something you feel wrong, and you decide to mock the class IN GAME, that's really mocking yourselves. Also, do the people who complain about the small amount of whiny paladins even realize that most players do not even post on the forums, nor really care ALL that much if they're nerfed a little? I remember the first time I expressed annoyance that they were removing Seal of Blood, and I got fiercely flamed. However, when I hear other classes complain of a much smaller nerf, it's OK. The second a Paladin player opens their mouth to even express a minor discomfort, it's like a cardinal sin in the WoW community.
Cyanea Oct 28th 2009 3:32PM
I'm a pally, and while I think that a lot of the changes are deserved to my class, the Lay on Hands one burned me a little bit. Hopefully what GC is hinting at is true.
devilsei Oct 28th 2009 4:01PM
I gotta agree, I've played Retribution since vanilla on my friend's account, and then as soon as TBC I rolled a horde pally. You know what I'm used to?
Retardin
Loladin
"Do what you're supposed to do and heal"adin
Uselessdin
and plenty of other unoriginal bull-sh**. We've always been considered the "joke" spec of the class, a spec no other class has (no, not even frost in PvE). Hell, until the Pre-Lich King patch, retribution sucked, plain and simple. We rocked in the beta for Lich King, Ghostcrawler himself on live-feed said "Retribution is just right", then not even a few weeks afterwards we got nerfed hard. We've then been smacked around with the nerf-bat over and over in various spots with every patch. Finally a patch comes around that DOESN'T specifically nerf the spec, but now they are targeting a key ability that well, every ret pally loves.
When do I specifically use LoH? When I have to. In a raid that's either on the main tank, a key healer, or even myself if I'm about to die and I'm far away from any healer and have no pots or stones to chug or eat. Selfish? Maybe, but in cases where healing is stressed, its better to use my own heals on myself when possible, then stress a healer(s) further.
There is NO consequence with LoH, hell its the only ability of ours that's actually been buffed, and not nerfed really. It went from consuming all our mana at an 1hr cooldown to a portion, the cooldown's 20 mins, and it also restores mana (to ourselves if needed). Now they are throwing the biggest nerf possible at it by removing it entirely from a Tank's bar (40K heal on themselve's if needed mainly), and making it almost useless to Ret (I won't watch everyone's bars just to go "oh they need it *click*").
I've always thought Blizzard has no clue on to handle a class they essentially labeled a "Buff-bot" as anything but that, and though they have on some occasions disproved this, a majority of the times its just reinforced.
jbodar Oct 28th 2009 4:58PM
@crunk
You say that as if Pallies aren't charter f'ing members of the nerfclub.
xzor Oct 28th 2009 7:07AM
http://www.wowwiki.com/Patch_1.11_(Evil_Patch_Notes)
"Paladin can no longer target self with Lay on Hands as the spell was intended to help others. "
-irony at it's best.