Patch 3.3 PTR: Ghostcrawler explains Paladin changes
You know how it goes. Blizzard nerfs Paladins, Paladins shake their heads in disbelief, then break out the pitchforks and scream bloody murder for a bit, beg Blizzard not to push through with the changes, and eventually run home and cry into My Little Pony sheets and staining pink underwear. Sure enough, when the recent PTR patch notes hinted at nerfs to the Paladin class, the pitchfork-wielding and bloody murder-screaming ensued. We're now about to enter the stage of bargaining. It's still on the PTR, after all. For those wondering what the bed-wetting ruckus is all about, Sacred Shield was nerfed to proc only once every 30 seconds (essentially proccing only once every cast of the spell unless augmented with talents), Aura Mastery was nerfed to 6 seconds down from 10, and Lay on Hands is being primed to be uncastable on one's self.
Ghostcrawler said that he didn't "want to promise (they) won't change the spell for 3.3," but that players also shouldn't "worry too much on the Lay on Hands change at this point" since it didn't make it to the latest PTR build. He explains in the forums that Paladins are no longer just a support class (as they were for quite a long time), but that all the abilities over time have contributed to making the class feel like a "one-man army" that is able to play offensively, defensively, and essentially take on more challenges without having to change stances, forms, or even specs. In a rather snippy response to a troll crying (with My Little Pony blanket in hand) in the forums, Ghostcrawler simply said, "Dear OP, Bye. Hugs, GC."
Discussing the Sacred Shield change as soon as we got wind of it, I argued to the WoW.com team that it was a Retribution PvP nerf more than anything, and a push for Holy to use it more in its focused healing kit. Although it does hurt Paladin tanks, Ghostcrawler states that Blizzard's "overall goal is to make Ret less tanky." Guess what? Retribution only really "tanks" in PvP, where the repeated nerfs to the spec's burst has altered its playstyle to become one about survivability. With the nerf to Sacred Shield and the planned nerf to Lay on Hands, that survivability diminishes massively.
With retribution burst nerfed to the proverbial ground, and survivability seemingly about to fall on its face, there's still no sign of the much asked for PvP utility to compensate for the removal of burst (Paladins never got out of the bargaining stage, apparently). It had gotten to the point that protection had become a much more viable, fun, and admittedly OP spec to PvP with, necessitating some nerfs to the protection tree which continue with Patch 3.3. This includes the possible nerf to Lay on Hands (put down those pitchforks, people, the nerf isn't even live on the PTR yet) which would be, to put it bluntly, stinky and messy as Murloc poop.
The good news is that, again, this is still just the PTR. Things can still change, and this is why it's being tested. The hope is that Lay on Hands will come out of it unscathed, but again, Ghostcrawler didn't promise anything (no more promises from the crab!). If I were to venture a guess, the iconic spell will likely still get nerfed to a degree. Stay tuned to the PTR and WoW.com, and hold on to your pink undies.
Patch 3.3 is the last major patch of Wrath of the Lich King. With the new Icecrown Citadel 5-man dungeons and 10/25-man raid arriving soon, patch 3.3 will deal the final blow to the Arthas. WoW.com's Guide to Patch 3.3 will keep you updated with all the latest patch news.
Ghostcrawler said that he didn't "want to promise (they) won't change the spell for 3.3," but that players also shouldn't "worry too much on the Lay on Hands change at this point" since it didn't make it to the latest PTR build. He explains in the forums that Paladins are no longer just a support class (as they were for quite a long time), but that all the abilities over time have contributed to making the class feel like a "one-man army" that is able to play offensively, defensively, and essentially take on more challenges without having to change stances, forms, or even specs. In a rather snippy response to a troll crying (with My Little Pony blanket in hand) in the forums, Ghostcrawler simply said, "Dear OP, Bye. Hugs, GC."
Discussing the Sacred Shield change as soon as we got wind of it, I argued to the WoW.com team that it was a Retribution PvP nerf more than anything, and a push for Holy to use it more in its focused healing kit. Although it does hurt Paladin tanks, Ghostcrawler states that Blizzard's "overall goal is to make Ret less tanky." Guess what? Retribution only really "tanks" in PvP, where the repeated nerfs to the spec's burst has altered its playstyle to become one about survivability. With the nerf to Sacred Shield and the planned nerf to Lay on Hands, that survivability diminishes massively.
With retribution burst nerfed to the proverbial ground, and survivability seemingly about to fall on its face, there's still no sign of the much asked for PvP utility to compensate for the removal of burst (Paladins never got out of the bargaining stage, apparently). It had gotten to the point that protection had become a much more viable, fun, and admittedly OP spec to PvP with, necessitating some nerfs to the protection tree which continue with Patch 3.3. This includes the possible nerf to Lay on Hands (put down those pitchforks, people, the nerf isn't even live on the PTR yet) which would be, to put it bluntly, stinky and messy as Murloc poop.
The good news is that, again, this is still just the PTR. Things can still change, and this is why it's being tested. The hope is that Lay on Hands will come out of it unscathed, but again, Ghostcrawler didn't promise anything (no more promises from the crab!). If I were to venture a guess, the iconic spell will likely still get nerfed to a degree. Stay tuned to the PTR and WoW.com, and hold on to your pink undies.
Patch 3.3 is the last major patch of Wrath of the Lich King. With the new Icecrown Citadel 5-man dungeons and 10/25-man raid arriving soon, patch 3.3 will deal the final blow to the Arthas. WoW.com's Guide to Patch 3.3 will keep you updated with all the latest patch news.Filed under: Paladin, Patches, Analysis / Opinion
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Reader Comments (Page 16 of 17)
Kurash Oct 28th 2009 5:03PM
Also, now that I think about it, if you have the right to say whatever you want then why can't Ghostcrawler? Or does this only apply to you? Or selectively? Your sense of entitlement is amusing.
Also, it's tough to take someone seriously when they use zero punctuation in their posts. Try throwing in a few commas and periods next time and let me know how that works out for you.
catharsis80 Oct 28th 2009 4:56PM
"Although it does hurt Paladin tanks, Ghostcrawler states that Blizzard's 'overall goal is to make Ret less tanky.'"
Right. Because there is no such thing as a holy paladin DS/G build.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sxAzgr0sVu0tgdxGzub
bswopes Oct 28th 2009 6:21PM
Dear GC,
Bye
Hugs,
Former Wow subscriber
guil.moura Oct 28th 2009 7:04PM
Seriously, enough with the "I'm quitting" posts.... no one cares!!!
Zach, your article is fine! If people are too lazy to go and read the original forum post that is their problem.
As long as you link the original post, then there is no excuse for people to jump to conclusions and take things out of context.
It is plain and simple really... Ret Pallys needed a nerf to their survivability in PvP (Battlegrounds) and here it is.
No class should have 3 lives no matter how long of a cooldown an ability has. Although it may not be the best fix they could have come up with, it is what it is. Deal with it, adapt, and stop the crying!!
Strider Oct 28th 2009 7:36PM
True, the lay on hands Nerf was kinda uncalled for. Im a prot pally and i know that the Sacred shield Nerf will hurt my overall mitigation but i can live with it, however the lay on hands Nerf, even tough i may use that skills once every 1 or 2 days it still annoys me.
Dyosis Oct 28th 2009 8:09PM
I'm pissed about the SS nerf myself. LOH is a 20 min CD anyway but I agree that it will hurt tanks the most. I've come to the conclusion that Pallies will keep getting nerfed so I guess I'll have to level my DK. Maybe after they finish nerfing pallies into the ground, there will be another class that everybody QQ's about, I just hope I won't be playing said class then. All 3 of my 80's were buffed for WotLK and all of them have been nerfed almost every patch since (pally the most though). Fun times.
Brouck Oct 28th 2009 8:13PM
More reasons for me to keep on leveling my Warlock and make her my new main!
Kole Oct 28th 2009 8:37PM
@RetPalyJil
I fully agree!!
Whether people like (or believe) it or not, the Devs are STILL in a customer service oriented area within the forums. Piss off enough people there and eventually the people who have said "if you do this or that I will cancel" will actually cancel. Plus word of mouth is and always will be the best (or worst) advertising a company could ever have.
Either way, GC was over the top with the crassness (is that a word?!) and the dumbass OP was way out of line and deserved the ban for his reaction to the response. Maybe GC should have actually taken that break he teased about from the forums...before he really goes off on someone.
My $0.02 on the nerf bat-a-swinging (still, not again):
I am really getting tired of it. For any class really, but especially for my Pally. Mostly because when I first started playing "online games" it was 16 years ago on a dial-up BBS playing MajorMUD. I was a Dark-Elf Paladin...and I have played either Paladins or Clerics ever since. Since I started playing WoW (almost a year ago...WOW where does the time go!?!) I have seen buff/nerf, buff/nerf, nerf/nerf, buff/nerf, nerf, nerf, nerf, change...no wait, nerf...
I am now stuck in the cycle of 1) I don't have enough DPS to win a spot in a raid compared to a Hunter/Mage/Lock and 2) I can't improve my DPS without getting new gear (which is in those raids) to increase my stats to increase my DPS...
I am sure you will all say L2Play or some such crap...but whatever. I know I am not the only person stuck in that revolving door...
But anyways, with Pallys being stuck in the nerf-cycle it will only get worse and probably harder to gain a spot in a raid (why take a Pally when you can get twice as much DPS out of a pure class?) Plus now that LW's can CRAFT our best buff we really aren't needed as much as we used to be.
Oh well...I suppose it is time to finish leveling my Mage and Lock and to raid with my Hunter...well until they start nerfing the hell out of those classes too....
TonyMcS Oct 28th 2009 10:22PM
All this over something you can only use every 20 min? Sure LOH is nice if you are tanking and your healer falls over for a bit, or for annoying people in PvP or as a nice save for a raid member, but it's an emergency talent.
I remember some of the same weeping and gnashing of teeth over nerfing righteous fury. I tank as prot and pally tanking is ridiculously easy as regards threat generation, so much so I didn't even notice the nerf.
If GC thinks there's a need to nerf, I'll assume he's the expert, as everyone else is too concerned about their own toons and rotations rather than concerned with the overall game. All the previous pally changes have suceeded in making this class very enjoyable to play, especially if you remember how they worked a some years ago. I can now even quest comfortably in prot spec, wheras it used to be nothing could kill me and I could kill them if I had a week to spare.
Elmouth Oct 28th 2009 10:53PM
GC has made it very clear from the start of the wotlk beta that they were out to get pallies.
It seemed to quiet down during "the big DK nerf wave" but now that the dust has settled, look who's back.
The sacred shield nerf is a big, I'd even go as far as saying insane, nerf to both healers and tanks. No good healadin out there doesn't keep a constant SS on their tank and no good protadin out there doesn't keep his SS up constantly. Its become part of the mitigation.
Aura mastery... well, obviously, arena healadin are still insanely OP /sarcasm
The simple thought that nerfing LoH crossed their minds just confirms it for me, they ARE hating on paladins.
Sure a paladin has 3 lives, he NEEDS them in order to take one of yours.
To the ground baby.
I just wish I would meet a wow dev randomly someday. Oh the fun I would have...
I wonder if they conceal what their job is when interacting with people in real life.
LiaG Oct 28th 2009 10:52PM
Attempt of productive comment: if the LoH issue is about (ret) PvP, so deal w/ it the proper way - block it when pallies join Battlegrounds or Wintergrasp like you do it in Arenas, since the system knows where our chars are. It is a very important spell in PvE and shouldn't be nerfed like this just for the sake of PvP.
I play a prot pally, btw.
And about the other tanking classes, you shouldn't be wishing to see a nerf like this, but asking to get something like it - 1st was the "pallies are great in AoE tanking and we aren't" and they added cool stuff. Now don't ask for a nerf, ask for something equivalent.
Killchrono Oct 29th 2009 2:54AM
It's funny because when I realised my post went through twice I thought 'I bet this guy is gonna chew me up about this in his reply.'
You didn't disapoint.
GG obvious predictable troll. I hope your attention seeking methods help you sleep at night and garner the attention you want from Ghostcrawler.
isawakumo Oct 29th 2009 11:07AM
I can understand the SS change, but the LoH change is just not needed. LoH has zero influence on PvP Arenas, barely any in BGs (20 minute cooldown), and is at best a 'oh snap' button when tanking.
Dominik Oct 29th 2009 1:52PM
Maybe make LoH something like this: "The target will be healed equal to the damage received for 10 seconds up to the amount of the paladin's maximium health". I.e damage is converted to health straight. That way it can be countered in PvP (stopping damage dealing), it won't be usable with bubble and will still save in PvE situations.
christian_588 Oct 30th 2009 5:37AM
alright fellow paladins. this class is really , totally pointless in pvp. get ur bg bots, ready, set, go!
thilithedruid Oct 30th 2009 2:46PM
@ RetPallyJil,
Would really love for you to chill a bit. I have been noticing your posts over the last couple of days, and they stand out for the vitriol contained in them.
This is a great site that most people come to for two things: a) News about WoW and debate about the news and b) a sense of community, i.e. identifying (or not) with other WoW players. I don't think I am too far off the mark when I say that attitudes such as yours just end up putting people off.
Tayler Oct 31st 2009 12:02AM
@taladan
that's also true the situation you were describing, which is even more of a reason why they shouldn't go through with the LoH nerf because then it puts more stress on the healers who have to deal with events like that.
Jansyu Nov 11th 2009 5:25PM
Here we go again.
Blizz nerfing pallys, pallys crying, everyone else singing with joy.
GREAT / wonderful / I'm impressed.
Of course ... the nerf to LoH but now is gonna do this ...
Lay on Hands is now affected by Forbearance and can now be cast on self again - Heals a friendly target for an amount equal to the Paladin's maximum health and restores 1950 of their mana. Once healed, the target cannot be targeted by Divine Shield, Divine Protection, Hand of Protection, or Lay on Hands again for 2 min.
Did you notice the word FORBEARANCE? hmmm? did you?
Are you going to be a tank in my raid group?
Better HOPE you don't get close to dying and the only way I can save you is to put LoH on you.
Because I won't now, ever.
Enjoy the grief tanks, enjoy.
I don't play WoW to PvP. I play WoW to PvE. Articles like this only ever seem to put the hatred onto pvp/ret & prot pallys, where you all seem to forget that there is another class of pally - HEALER (who is also being hurt) and trying their very best to keep you alive in a PvE raid/instance ... but is constantly hit by nerfs because of you cry babies in PvP.
warladin Nov 16th 2009 9:14PM
I'm really confused. I've played pallies since release. I've seen the ups and downs etc. I stopped playing a paladin for a few months and tried out a few other classes.
Why do they want to nerf pallies again?. I'm sorry but maybe it's because I know how to fight against them because I played them for so long. I never have major trouble. THey are pretty much the same difficulty as most other classes. I get more hassle from rogues. Nerf them. They need to be nerfed :P.
The removal of LoHs is just silly. Maybe increase the CD to 30 mins. OR make divine shield last only 4 seconds. But such big changes over an over again are making me believe that blizzard have no idea what the healkillstuntankadin is supposed to be.
Honestl. One of the main things I go by when I play WoW. Is that if your complaining about a certain class too much, because there OP or whatever. It's because you can;t beat them. You don't know how. GO learn your class better have a real fight. As a warlock my AE as rogues. They piss me off somthing freakin rotten. But there not OP. I just suck at fighting them.
Ben Nov 24th 2009 5:26AM
Awesome change...
I hate ret paladins in arena, and as a rogue.... seriously do you ever see a rogue owning a paladin???
Good changes :)