Patch 5.3 interview with Ghostcrawler
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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsPatch 3.3 PTR: Ghostcrawler explains Paladin changes
by Zach Yonzon 
Oct 28th 2009 at 7:00AM
Ghostcrawler said that he didn't "want to promise (they) won't change the spell for 3.3," but that players also shouldn't "worry too much on the Lay on Hands change at this point" since it didn't make it to the latest PTR build. He explains in the forums that Paladins are no longer just a support class (as they were for quite a long time), but that all the abilities over time have contributed to making the class feel like a "one-man army" that is able to play offensively, defensively, and essentially take on more challenges without having to change stances, forms, or even specs. In a rather snippy response to a troll crying (with My Little Pony blanket in hand) in the forums, Ghostcrawler simply said, "Dear OP, Bye. Hugs, GC."
Discussing the Sacred Shield change as soon as we got wind of it, I argued to the WoW.com team that it was a Retribution PvP nerf more than anything, and a push for Holy to use it more in its focused healing kit. Although it does hurt Paladin tanks, Ghostcrawler states that Blizzard's "overall goal is to make Ret less tanky." Guess what? Retribution only really "tanks" in PvP, where the repeated nerfs to the spec's burst has altered its playstyle to become one about survivability. With the nerf to Sacred Shield and the planned nerf to Lay on Hands, that survivability diminishes massively.
With retribution burst nerfed to the proverbial ground, and survivability seemingly about to fall on its face, there's still no sign of the much asked for PvP utility to compensate for the removal of burst (Paladins never got out of the bargaining stage, apparently). It had gotten to the point that protection had become a much more viable, fun, and admittedly OP spec to PvP with, necessitating some nerfs to the protection tree which continue with Patch 3.3. This includes the possible nerf to Lay on Hands (put down those pitchforks, people, the nerf isn't even live on the PTR yet) which would be, to put it bluntly, stinky and messy as Murloc poop.
The good news is that, again, this is still just the PTR. Things can still change, and this is why it's being tested. The hope is that Lay on Hands will come out of it unscathed, but again, Ghostcrawler didn't promise anything (no more promises from the crab!). If I were to venture a guess, the iconic spell will likely still get nerfed to a degree. Stay tuned to the PTR and WoW.com, and hold on to your pink undies.
Patch 3.3 is the last major patch of Wrath of the Lich King. With the new Icecrown Citadel 5-man dungeons and 10/25-man raid arriving soon, patch 3.3 will deal the final blow to the Arthas. WoW.com's Guide to Patch 3.3 will keep you updated with all the latest patch news.Filed under: Paladin, Patches, Analysis / Opinion
Reader Comments (Page 6 of 17)
Jamie Oct 28th 2009 7:58AM
So what us paladins can't touch ourselves now? we like to touch ourselves when we're in danger... jeeeeez...
Killchrono Oct 28th 2009 8:17AM
Well, as the Paladins from Warcraft 3 go:
"Touch me not, I am chaste!"
Thorongil Oct 28th 2009 7:59AM
Ouch. another incoming Paladin Nerf. ah well. we're still better then we were in Vanilla so i am not going to complain overmuch. just have to poke at the sacred shield changes. considering since paladins of the prot variety are suposed to have the strongest version thereof(look at the pre nerf talent spread), you think blizz might have thrown in the option for a talent at least partialy mirroring the holy version? perhaps sitting somewhere near the high end of the tree to keep it out of the ret hands?
I don't know the experience of other players, but for some reasons the holy paladins on my server seem to avoid sacred shields like it was the black death. As a result, when Raid tanking, being that 10 or 25 man, the only sacred shields you ever see active are the ones i've been dropping on myself whenever my tanking rotations allow it.
If the problems really are coming out of Ret being able to use it at high ends for PvP, it seems to make more sense to toss the extension in to the high tiers of both prot and holy.
Nick Oct 28th 2009 8:03AM
Your name fits you well.
Also,
LOLUMAD?
Love,
Nick (A paladin)
Newdamda Oct 28th 2009 8:13AM
Dear Blizzard,
You win.
Checks not in the mail,
New
Sky Oct 28th 2009 9:04AM
Hooray for less lag in Dalaran... Nobody cares dude go quit you werent wanted in the first place
Avan Oct 28th 2009 8:15AM
Oh no, retardins can't faceroll anymore. Whatever will the World of Warcraft do?
bobgriese2p2 Oct 28th 2009 8:16AM
On noes, they be takin mah faceroll class
Sy Oct 28th 2009 8:18AM
I rolled paladin after getting extremely bored of my mage that i played for over a year and tbh seeing these nerfs doesn't bother me. Currently im holy specced and the nerfs to SS and AM are, as others have said, minor pvp nerfs.
The only real changes these will bring to PVE are keepng us holy pala's on the ball more when keeping the tanks up. As for lay on hands, i'll admit that will suck, but i'll be surprised if that goes through.
Even in pvp if you're fighting a paladin with both bubble and LoH, if you can outlast them and survive you can bring them down, what with LoH having that massive cooldown even talented and glyphed. Failing that bring some friends, i've played both pala and rogue in pvp and find that for all the "omg nerf they're OP'd" remarks, they've still felt balanced to play as. No i dont suck at pvp either.
Just my 2 pennies.
Matthew Rossi Oct 28th 2009 10:54AM
To be fair:
My wife and I, a resto druid and a shadow priest (so we're talking Blood DPS DK, Survival Hunter, Shadow Priest and Resto Druid) were once attempting to kill a prot paladin. I was in PvP gear with 23k health and 700 resilience. This was in Wintergrasp. They were just trying to do the fishing daily when the paladin jumped them, so my wife asked me to come help on my DK. It took me three minutes to get there: he was still there against the three of them, so I jumped in.
We could not kill him. We got him down to 50% health and he would just pop back up. This happened over and over again. The resto druid could prevent him from killing me (in part due to my helping her with Vampiric Blood) but only barely. The Shadow Priest actually died twice. I could see several pieces of TotC 25 and Ulduar gear on him, so I know he wasn't PvP geared, either.
I don't know if these nerfs are justified or not. But when just about every class in the game weeps in raw, bitter frustration the second they see your class coming up the hill and prepares for a 20 minute fight to try and kill you while several of them die, that's indicative of an imbalance.
freeway8989 Oct 28th 2009 1:24PM
Matt, you can't just claim there exists an imbalance based off an anecdote.
So you had 23K health with 700 resilience. What about the other players? Were they decently geared? Were they even good players? Were they even using the correct PVP strategies (crowd control much)? Lol, did they even switch out their fishing poles for their weapon?
And what about the paladin? What class was he? Human (Every Man for Himself)? And what spec was he? Holy? Only a holy pally can survive for a long time by himself. Even a prot will die relatively quickly since their mana essentially evaporates. No ret pally will be able to carry on a pvp fight for 3 minutes against three players unless they are smart and saved ALL their cooldowns.
And furthermore, TotC 25 and Uld gear, AND he ambushed them? Well I'm sorry if you have hard feelings, buts that's a very well geared player who knows what he's doing.
I play a pally and I know firsthand that ret pallies get killed pretty easily. Only when we have ALL our cooldowns do we give the impression that we survive an eternity. You got to remember that when we kill you, you haven't seen the whole picture. After you die, our bubble expires or we get knocked back down to 0 health again after LoH. You're just not around to see it. So you died thinking you just faced a titan when in truth you just got really unlucky.
And really? 20 minute fights? Hyperbole?
There really seems to something going on here more than legitimate arguments against paladins of all flavors. Most people don't understand what type of paladin they're fighting, so they don't know what to expect. Is that class imbalance? Most people think a 20 minute CD (glyphed and specced it's still over 10 minutes) is OP. So when a paladin intelligently saves it for that "oh, sh*t" moment, is that class imbalance? And when a holy paladin can heal themselves for a long time and pop CD's that, again, they saved, and play like smart player, is that class imbalance? And when some people exaggerate tall tales about that "ungodly" holy pally who survived a "day-long" fight, and yet prot and ret pallies suffer, is that class imbalance?
Skonged Oct 28th 2009 2:44PM
"But when just about every class in the game weeps in raw, bitter frustration the second they see your class coming up the hill and prepares for a 20 minute fight to try and kill you while several of them die, that's indicative of an imbalance."
If you had a shadow priest, druid, and DK you guys should have rocked the paladin. Priest can silence/bubble pop, Druid can out heal, cyclone, and keep away from Paladin, DK can out DP a paladin. Paladins are BUILT to outlast their opponents it's the nature of the class. With that priest there draining mana the fight should have been over fairly quick.
*shrug*
Skonged Oct 28th 2009 4:16PM
Matt your story reminds me of an encounter 3 other guildmates and I had in BC while grinding money quests. We cam across a shaman who ganked one of us while grinding dailies. 4 of us attacking, 2 of them paladins, and we could not take the single Shaman out. Does this mean...
1 Shaman is more OP than two Paladins?
Shamans need to be nurfed to the ground?
It's unfair shamans have long good cool downs they use?
The pendulum swings both ways.
JKWood Oct 28th 2009 5:26PM
I admit I've managed to outlast most of the people who attack me while I'm fishing in WG. Then again, I have yet to be attacked by a warlock while fishing... FEAR DOT DOT DOT FEAR DOT DOT...
Taladan Oct 28th 2009 5:32PM
@Rossi: 700 resil? What are you using, hateful?
As holy, my resilience goes around 900. Oh, it's the weapon? Nope, I got Ironsoul in a lucky FL-only run. Oh, the shield, then! Nope, it's the Heroism one. Arena gear? No, it's honor-only gear.
To everyone else: Rossi is the #1 pally hater here and he understand zits about the class (and probably about his own class, nonetheless.)
RetPallyJil Oct 28th 2009 8:23AM
Actually, I'm a (nominally) adult woman. I can take nerfs - I've been ret for four years straight; I'm used to them.
But I just - do - not - like - Ghostcrawler. I don't like his manner, his "humor," or the snotty way he deals with people genuinely concerned about how Blizzard disregards their opinions.
Correction. I - hate - that - guy. And, were I to meet him and were he to give me a dose of the same crap he spews in the forums, I'd seriously smash him in the chops.
Sengir Oct 28th 2009 8:26AM
Ghostcrawler is a boil on the butt of humanity.
Sturmovic Oct 28th 2009 8:32AM
I think that Blizz has unfairly made my 4-button class no OP enough.
Time to go roll a DK then. I hear they only have 3 buttons.
It worked for Arthas, so it should damn well free me from nerfs as well.
Sky Oct 28th 2009 8:55AM
Not really, before patch 3.3 Dk's were getting nerfed basically every patch. Now its the retardins turn. Bout damn time if you ask me
Revnant Oct 28th 2009 8:36AM
I LUV U! MR BLOG WRITER! Your a really cool talking good things about people in your article. Since the creation of Paladins they have always been OP (Not just in WOW) Fucken with a class that is a trademark of the paladins is AWESOME, I luv Blizzard to.
Fix'd