Breakfast Topic: The future of the Horde
by Allison Robert 
Oct 30th 2009 at 8:00AM
The issue seems to be the growing rift between players and Horde leadership in Northrend, and the degree to which many of us can't identify with the sub-faction that eventually hijacks the Horde storyline. I burned Saurfang's letter as he asked. I nodded alongside Golluk Rockfist as he told Horde players, "You are leaving to the Ruby Dragonshrine. This is not a request." I sat with Thrall in his darkest moments in the Undercity throne room, when he realized that everything was lost.
By contrast, I /facepalmed my way through Icecrown.
Spoiler material past the break.
Like many other Horde, it feels distinctly odd and not entirely comfortable that, after this emotional tour-de-force in Dragonblight, you find yourself being the errand runner for a number of Garrosh's increasingly stupid and reckless cronies. Between that, Garrosh's behavior in Warsong Hold, Garrosh's behavior in the 3.1 trailer, Garrosh's behavior in Trial of the Champion/Crusader, and...well, just Garrosh period, a lot of Horde players were flabbergasted that one of the most (if not most) hated Hordeside NPC's can expect a nice, healthy promotion in Cataclysm, with the type of job security that comes from knowing you'll probably only be replaced if killed.
Maybe that's where they're going with this, but if not, the Faction Change button looks a lot less crazy for my beloved Tauren than it did previously.
Kisirani's assurances in the linked thread aside, this one's going out to all the Horde players out there; have you seriously considered rerolling or faction-switching? Does the Horde feel uncomfortably different with Garrosh in charge?
World of Warcraft: Cataclysm will destroy Azeroth as we know it. Nothing will be the same. In WoW.com's Guide to Cataclysm you can find out everything you need to know about WoW's third expansion. From Goblins and Worgens to Mastery and Guild changes, it's all there for your cataclysmic enjoyment.Filed under: Horde, Alliance, Expansions, Lore, Factions, Breakfast Topics
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 13)
shanzenkou Oct 30th 2009 8:08AM
I have played Horde exclusively starting from beta, but I do not think it's such a big deal. Garrosh can do it. He'll be redeemed eventually.
Knyle2 Oct 30th 2009 10:59AM
I DONT THINK IT HAS ANY AFFECT ON ANYTHING!?
I DONT KNOW THE LAST TIME LORE HAS MADE ANY AFFECT?
I MISS REAL ARTICLES ON WOW.COM
Arbitor Oct 30th 2009 11:09AM
"I DONT THINK IT HAS ANY AFFECT ON ANYTHING!?
I DONT KNOW THE LAST TIME LORE HAS MADE ANY AFFECT?
I MISS REAL ARTICLES ON WOW.COM"
Just stfu and gtfo, you're not wanted here knyle2.
Sarakin Oct 30th 2009 11:32AM
I'll agree and hell maybe he'll start things too fast and we'll see a war start then he'll realize his mistake be have to try to fix things while fighting a war against the alliance.
I'm cool with that as long as he at some point realizes he was being a tool
Nolls74 Oct 30th 2009 11:39AM
hating Varian has nothing to do with being a "horde fanboy" I've been playing alliance for 3 years, and I hate Wrynn. I don't have a horde toon at all, and I hate Wrynn. I love(d, past tense sucks :'( ) Bolvar, and Wrynn is half the man of his former right-hand man. To me, Wrynn < Staghelm. Yes, I hate Staghelm too and hope the return of Malfy makes Staghelm go bye-bye, but I would rather have Stag as the figurehead of the alliance than Wrynn. The worst thing about Wrynn, isn't his hatred for the horde, it's his stupidity. The problem with Garrosh, is his stupidity. They both hate each other's kind, but they are so stupid and macho and roid-rage-y with the way they go about their business. There is no gray to them, it's only black and white. That kind of blindness leads down a dark path, and should not be a characteristic of the figurehead of a giant group of people (faction). Please, let Cairne, or Sylvanas or Saurfang take over the horde, and Bronzebeard, Velen or Tyrannde take over the alliance. Don't get me wrong, my warrior is looking forward to the soon-to-be all out war that Blizzard is clearly aiming for, as he hates the trolls and orcs with a deep passion, but my paladin is afraid of the needless pain and suffering that will be brought to all corners of Azeroth.
Nolls74 Oct 30th 2009 11:41AM
oops, i replied to the wrong OP :(
Sylenas Oct 30th 2009 8:12PM
I can appreciate people really enjoying playing the alliance. I get it. I'm not gonna lie, on a scale of Burning Legion to Naaru, the Alliance are imho certainly more "good" than the Horde. That's why I can't identify with them though. My own country's history is definitely more a mixture of moral triumph and tyranny than the Alliance. I like the turmoil that goes on in the Horde. I'm also a sucker for redemption storylines, i.e. Orcs and Mannoroth, Blood Knights... even Undead members of Argent Crusade/Dawn.
That being said, I'm not considering changing sides for 2 reasons:
a) Blizzard has already hinted that Garrosh will have redeeming qualities we haven't even seen yet. He is the son of Grom after all, a paragon of redemption.
b) All my friends play Horde :-)
sccorp.sc Nov 1st 2009 12:28PM
It's funny how Varian Wrynn's conviction's eerily mirrior Artha's determination...What DOES happen to Frostmourne after we kill Arthas in Icecrown Citadel...?
Miri Oct 30th 2009 8:07AM
As much as I don't like Garrosh, I still think he's better than Varian Wrynn. So I'll be keeping my Horde allegiance come Cataclysm. I'm not happy to see Thrall be replaced, and I'm hoping that there will be something REALLY big to make Garrosh seem like less of an a'hole. I won't hold my breath though--as I don't know what all lore the Expansion will bring.
Lemons Oct 30th 2009 8:33AM
How can you like Garrosh more than Varian?
Garrosh acts like an unruly teenager with turrets, and his deep hatred for the Alliance isn't really based on anything, I mean, the guy sat in outland for the majority of his existence, far away from the Alliance, why does he hate them so much?
At least Varian has real reasons for his hatred (The horde destroyed his homeland, killed his father, etc.) and can keep a lid on it to some degree.
I think the only reason you don't like Varian is he wants to exterminate the Horde. Well guess what? Garrosh wants to exterminate the Alliance. So we'll just call them equal on that. Okay, so let's tally this up...carry the four...yea...looks like Varian wins.
Johan Forn Oct 30th 2009 9:30AM
Don't compare Varian with Garrosh.
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/1292/garroshvarian.jpg
How about you stop being a blind Horde fanboy and admit there's nothing wrong with Varian Wrynn. Both the lore and comic fully support the picture of him being a good guy. The anti-Varian propaganda blabbered out by overzealous Horde fanboys only serves to downgrade the opposing faction.
sgtrama Oct 30th 2009 9:42AM
The thought I've always had is that "man I really hate the idea of having Garrosh as a leader, but I can't think many Alliance were probably more proud of having Varian than Andiun." Andiun to Varian is pretty much Thrall to Garrosh. He's more about diplomacy than being a fighter, and Varian explains it as Varian "has the spirit of Fighter."
Saurfang seems DEATHLY against Garrosh being leader, and he says "I'll kill you myself before I let that happen to us again." Add that to the fact that he was counting on his son's performance to being the saving grace of the Horde, and the fact that his son has...
Weakly succumb to the Lich King's bidding and become his greatest champion when the HUMAN was able to fend off the temptation. This looks REALLY bad for him and Garrosh would probably say he'd never break, and CERTAINLY never fall in battle.
That being said, I figure either A) Garrosh realizes a lot stuff out in Icecrown, because the general consensus among the horde, right now anyway, is that where they were was BAD. It got stuff done, but it did WAY more damage than good, and B) Suarfang is probably gonna get offed, at which point the Horde will all shed a collective tear.
I WILL say though, regardless of what the predictions say, and how it LOOKS really there's no reason for Thrall to step down as leader of the Horde yet. The reason given for Garrosh to become leader of the Horde was because thrall was to become to new Guardian of Tirisfal, and right now it's PRETTY CLEAR that Me'dan is the Guardian, will be the Guardian, and there's no other plausible choice OTHER than him for the job.
BUT then again that really wouldn't go well with way Cataclysm seems like it's going.
HOPEFULLY they'll ease us into it at the very least :(
Miri Oct 30th 2009 11:05AM
@Lemons: I leveled an Alliance to 80 recently--I've done the Wrathgate questline on both sides--I ran around the cities and did all the little random quests. Varian's personality rubbed me the wrong way. Like Garrosh, he jumps before looking, but I just can't stand his attitude. Don't get me wrong, I've wanted to punch Garrosh in the face MANY times doing the quests in Nagrand and in Northrend--Garrosh is as emo as they come. BUT...that being said, I'd rather have the emo orc than the yambag Human. Jania? Sure--I'd back her, but I just can't get behind Varian leading the Alliance. I can't really get behind Garrosh either--neither "tug" at the heartstrings, but Varian seems to continuously be clouded by rage--Garrosh is just an a'hole--no questions asked. I figure we're going to see a massive lore change/update before Catacylsm--Blizzard has to give reason for the Horde to support Garrosh--whether it's something he does in ICC or what--I don't know. But I think Blizzard realizes that 1/ Garrosh isn't liked, 2/ They'll need to do SOMETHING to make us at least, begrudgingly like him. I'm not going to be waiving my "Go Warchief!" flag for Garrosh like I do for Thrall, he hasn't proven himself to me yet.
@Johan: Fan girl TYVM. It's not blind support--it's me having observed both personalities. Garrosh I can phase out without issue--Varian just makes me want to choke him anytime I have to do anything with his name associated with it.
As Sgtrama mentioned, Anduin is like Thrall--both based on diplomacy. I support Thrall as my leader for the Horde, I liked Anduin when he was the "mini" ruler. Blizzard will REALLY have to sell Garrosh to me, and I won't be dashing to the throne room to protect his azz when the Alliance come to get their kill, but I still would take Garrosh over Varian. I can avoid his part of Org =)
/Still willing to vote for Basic Campfire if it ever became an option...
Taladan Oct 30th 2009 12:48PM
@Johan: Carefully chosen pages are carefully chosen, huh?
Extrox Oct 30th 2009 2:26PM
@ Johan
It's all about perspective.
From my view (as a Horde player) you're a blind Alliance fanboy. From your view, we Horde are blind Horde fanboys.
In all fairness, you linking one page doesn't help your arguement.
I could easily blame the Alliance for not keeping Arthas/Medivh/Illidan/Kael under control, but I don't. Though Alliance players always like to bring up the "Horde can't keep Forsaken under control" argument (which, frankly, doesn't hold a candle to the atrocities that the Alliance have allowed to happen).
@ Lemons
It's easy for a Horde player to like Garrosh easier than Varian, especially if you've been reading the comics. When they first came out I was like "Hell, this guys pretty cool." Then they revelaed who he was and I considered rerolling just because he was a badass.
BUT...
Then they put him in the game and instead of being a badass he became an asshat. That's when I realized I wasn't a fan of Varian anymore. At least Garrosh went from being Emo to being an Asshat (a lot smoother transition).
Honestly, it's also quite easy because Thrall is essentially the stronger version of Varian. Rather Varian is a weaker version of Thrall. I had a nice long explanation about it, because I know all the goofy responses are going to pop up "Blah blah blah, gladiator, blah blah blah, Horde captured, blah blah blah" but frankly, if people are still coming up with those excuses then they're not worth responding to.
peralas Oct 30th 2009 4:32PM
I couldn't agree with Miri more. I cannot see anything, even Garrosh becoming warchief, to make me want to switch to those.... well, the Alliance. And to be frank, there are times when I do not mind Garrosh at all. For one, I am not a big fan of jousting so when he makes his comment about anything being better than riding around with blunted sticks, I had to nod in agreement. Otherwise though, no, I cannot agree with him as any decent sort of replacement for Thrall. He fills the 2nd pineapple slot just fine.
Dreyja Oct 30th 2009 4:41PM
Actually as someone who has followed the lore on both sides, Garrosh is still the biggest douchnizzle. Varian, I don't like at all but his anger is at least justified. Garrosh is just, just a gigantic idiot.
I'm an alliance fangirl but I LOVE Thrall and Cairne and don't go into that claim with any blinders on.
tim Oct 30th 2009 4:55PM
@ Johan
How about you stop being a blind Varian fanboy and admit it's possible to dislike him, even if you have no Horde characters, and even if you read the comic (which, by the way, oftentimes presents him differently than the in-game lore).
ZakuraX Oct 30th 2009 5:07PM
Varian wants to kill every orc for things they have done it the past. And somewhat show people that he is more badass then the Horde.
Thrall has more or less forgiven the human to have hold the orcs captive and used them as slaves. Even after they saw that they were becoming more peaceful.
Garrosh wants to protect his fathers honor and show that he is more badass then any Alliance. Somewhat trying to get out of his fathers shadow
Decide for yourself who you think is the most capable leader of them. The one that wants vengance, the one who strives for peace or the one that want to gain honor on the battlefield?
vinniedcleaner Oct 30th 2009 6:27PM
Varian needs to realize that his anger toward the Horde and specifically the orcs is misplaced. If he really wanted to go after those responsible, he should direct all his attention toward the Burning Legion. However. being short-sighted, he uses the Horde as the scapegoat for all his problems, without accepting that his own kind was instrumental in bringing the orcs to Azeroth. Garrosh is a loose cannon, but his anger stems from the corruption that he sees within his race, while Varian is just filled with hatred.