Drama Mamas: Reading is hard
by Lisa Poisso 
Oct 30th 2009 at 9:00AM
"Reading is hard." We've seen that snarky little comeback all too often around WoW.com comments, the Blizzard forums and various cracks and crevices in between. Judging from the number of comments we get from readers for whom "skimming" has obviously replaced "reading" (yes, all of you who bunnyhopped over the point of last week's advice on playing a character of the opposite gender – we're looking at you!), we might be inclined to concur, in a most un-snarky, literal way.
What concerns the Drama Mamas is when players blunder through their game without really reading what their fellow players are communicating, both explicitly and between the lines. We all know how easily humor (and especially sarcasm) can fall flat on the internet. Disaster strikes when players stop reading and start reading into what others say. It's all too easy to miss connections when we stop "listening" halfway through. Players can even do this to themselves, second-guessing situations and making assumptions that prevent them from truly enjoying the game the way they'd like.
This week, we'll help two players slice through their anxieties and clearly communicate their wishes. Say what you mean! Mean what you say! And in the meantime, we urge all our readers to read up, line by line, when other players have something to say. Don't seize upon a single phrase that inflames your sensibilities while heedlessly abandoning the rest. Connecting with other players is best done in black and white -- and "read" all over.
Dear Drama Mamas: The guild I belong to is very small (maybe 12 players at 80), but all of us know at least one person in the guild in real life and a few of my guildies are very good real life friends of mine. I'm looking to progress to more difficult and interesting content -- but at least half of the guild isn't there yet (or they aren't able to play very much right now). I've recently made in-game friends with a few different raid-happy people and have gone with them on a few non-official runs. And I loved it. And then one of my new friends invited me to apply to her guild -- a guild that raids four times a week and seems to be making good progress through the latest content.
I know that once I start school again I'm not going to be able to play much, so I'd like to get in as much content as I can while I have the time. I also feel that my guild isn't really ever going to be capable of raiding on a regular basis. In some ways, I feel that playing with my friends is the most important part of WoW -- even if we're not able to do any sort of progression. On the other hand I REALLY, REALLY want to raid and I'm REALLY bored with everything else. Signed, Confused
Drama Mama Lisa: I think you'll have better luck, Confused, if you're simply honest about what you'd like to do.
- Make the leap. Join up. See how you like the raiding lifestyle. You may love it ... You may lose interest after the initial adrenaline rush ... Or you may not find the schedule or the guild such a good fit after all. You'll never know unless you try.
- Don't burn any bridges with your casual friends. "I'd like to try more raiding, and I've got this window to try things out before I get back into school" is different than "You all suck Cracked Eggs and I never want to hear from you again."
- Wait and see how much school actually does change your schedule. People who are passionate about a hobby manage all sorts of tricky maneuvers to keep things moving productively in the face of work or school. If it turns out that you love raiding as much as you think you will, it's not unreasonable to think that you'd want and be able to find a way to overcome scheduling hurdles.
Drama Mama Robin: I know from experience that you can have it all. You just need to be completely honest with both guilds.
- What to tell the old guild Tell them what you've told us: you really want to try out raiding but still want to remain friends. Ask them for a chat channel so that you all can have a friends chat, regardless of guild.
- What to tell the new guild You really want to try out raiding but aren't sure if you can do it when you return to school. If you are honest about your prospects, they are much more likely to be understanding when your schedule changes. As Lisa said, you may find out you can still squeeze in a little raiding and still keep up with all your studies. After all, leisure time is important.
A toad in your "greener pasture"Dear Drama Mamas: Earlier this year I left a small, casual guild I had joined to seek greener pastures with a large, casual and raiding guild. The casual guild was filled with members who did very little else but beg for higher level members (specifically me, as the only guild 80) to help them with runs/quests/etc. and displayed very little gratitude. I'm a veteran casual player since 1.7, and I don't mind helping out or passing along some wisdom when I can, but I have no interest in helping people who expect to be "babysat" or catered to without some form of consideration or any thanks. After leaving, I severed ties with most of the guild and was accepted into my current guild, where I help the lower level players when I am able to, but members are understanding if I am unable to.
All these months later, a member of my former guild suddenly reappeared after a long, prison-related absence from the game. I greeted him back warmly, but now I can't get him to leave me alone. He whispers me every time I log on, has whispered me from alts, and has had other people whisper me to ask if I'm ignoring him when I'm AFK. It's getting to the point where I'm starting to feel harassed and don't even want to sign into my main, the only character he knows about. I know I'm going to have to ask him to stop pestering me, but I'm not sure of the most firm yet polite way to go about it. Sincerely, Harassed Ex-Guildie
Drama Mama Robin: Harassed, you've got yourself a parasite. Having other people send you messages to see if you're ignoring him is particularly emo (also ignorant of how WoW works -- you get a message when you try to whisper someone who is ignoring you). Because of his excess neediness, this is not likely to end well. But here is something to try:
I am very busy these days with my new guild. If I don't answer, I'm either AFK or busy fighting. Please just ask someone else if I don't answer. You may try finding a guild that is able and willing to help you more.
Go as far as helping him find a casual guild, and hook him up with a leveling guide. Then make yourself unavailable on your main for a week or two in order to wean him off of you. Hopefully, your raiding guild will be understanding of your playing alts exclusively for a little while.
If that doesn't reduce his pestering to something you can deal with, then you have to close the door on this guy. Just before putting him on /ignore, tell him:
I am sorry that you can't respect my time.
Good luck with Mr. Ex-Con.
Drama Mama Lisa: Now that you feel cornered, Harrassed, I suspect you may not be able to realistically enjoy chatting with this friend without feeling put-upon. If you'd like to try, you need to figure out when you'd actually be willing to visit.
- When is a good time for you to chat?
- Is there a good time?
- Are the only good times to chat so specific that it falls to you to initiate conversations?
- Are you interested and willing in initiating conversations at times that are convenient for you?
If in fact you were just being polite upon his return to the game, then follow Robin's advice to loosen and then sever ties to this relationship. Be sure to explain why you can't talk -- "The stuff I run with this character now makes it really hard to chat when I'm playing. Sorry, gotta run ..." – and then let any additional whispers go by without any reply at all. You might have to repeat this a couple of times on additional days before he gets the hint. If he doesn't, it's time to /ignore.
Remember, your mama wouldn't want to see your name on any drama. Play nice ... and when in doubt, ask the Drama Mamas at DramaMamas (at) WoW (dot) com.Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Tips, WoW Social Conventions, Virtual selves, Features, Drama Mamas
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Lupidius Oct 31st 2009 7:31PM
The parasite seems pretty needy, and he will stay needy until he gets a good talking to or told off.
SarahTheGnome Oct 30th 2009 9:11AM
Speaking from experience, about the harassed person, I would not do it the way you guys suggest. I have found the only way to fix these things, is to be very very clear. If you are going to hook him up with a guide, guild, or whatever, you are, yet again, helping him and enabling him in his constant contacting you. Because hey, he persisted and it paid off! Hiding for a few weeks will not make it go away, trust me, people like this, leechers, they do not lose interest that easily. Sad but true.
I do not know the right answer, I have been in the situation but it resolved itself after a very very long time of hiding. But hiding is not fun at all, because you want to play the chars you love, and really, a person who can make you hide is winning in this case, because you are filling in your playtime in a way you don't really want to.
Be blunt. Tell him you appreciate his friendship but when you come online, getting this many whispers is tiring to you, ask him if he can maybe find someone else to help him, because you want to enjoy your online time, not spend it by answering one million questions. Tell him that rl is hard at the moment so logging in means you get some quiet time and he is making a bit too much noise. All of the above is not that blunt even, it is just being truthful without being hurtful. Just try to communicate to him that you do not wish to break contact, but that you just need the occasional breaks from contact.
We play this game to have fun, if he is messing with that you can tell him. Don't let him mess it up even more by hiding or playing elaborate games to make him realise. Just be honest, it will take less time, and it will cause less of a mess in the long run.
What I also do, you know, not for people who pester me but just when I am so extremely tired is /dnd sorry, feeling drained today, would prefer not to chit chat.
WaterRouge Oct 30th 2009 9:27AM
I completely agree. Helping him find another guild/person to help him may seem like the generous and nice thing to do to Ex-Con but it's the worst thing. During the process, Ex-Guildie will be more and more annoyed, probably, and may even explode. Also, it never shows your true intent; you can get them new friends/new characters/new gear/new WoW life and they'll always be there to bother you. Drop the bomb Ex-Guildie. Or you know what? Throw it off of a cliff into an unsuspecting Garrosh-filled village. This guy needs to be dead and buried out of your life.
Esmee Oct 30th 2009 12:07PM
I totally agree with SarahTheGnome. I generally am all for civilized solutions, but sometimes you need to be very clear and very blunt about things. People who crave for attention see negative attention also as a form of success, so: "sry I am afk in raids, don't talk to me now" will be seen as a positive result: hurray, as soon he's stopped raiding, I can pester him again. And by all means: DON'T help him to get a new guild, or give him any other help, because he then will still think you are his best buddy and will continue to suck you dry. Do not radiate mixed messages. You don't want to be his friend.
And don't go into hiding. He has no right to force you doing this and it probably won't even work; since he is the kind of person who even uses other people to harass you when you ignore him, he doesn't understand the word hint at all.
Be clear. I assume you don't care for his "friendship" at this point anymore, so it's okay when your words upset him. Say simple things like: I don't want to boost people, you are being a nuisance, I am not here to serve you, I don't want you to contact me ever again.
When he freaks out, don't feel bad about yourself. One of the things "bad" people are very good at, is make you feel bad about yourself. Don't let them.
Tarin Oct 30th 2009 2:26PM
It's sad but I have to agree. The only way I have found to actual get rid of "leechers" permanently or helping them not to Leech from you was to be Blunt. Try to do it in a Polite way of course.
Ignoring them will only make them either make them have their friends or people they know to constantly whisper to you for the Leecher.
Playing on one of your alts for a long time like a few weeks has never worked for me. They'll just continue to harass you once you go back on your main they'll, usually very aggressively, say why are you ignoring them. Even if you tell them why clearly and politely, at this point they'll begin to take out their frustration on not being able to talk to you for awhile.
Being Blunt has been the only effective way I have found. It sucks and it's a bit embarrassing to both you and the Leecher, but if they don't know why you need some space without making sound like you're attacking them, then they'll never know that they're upsetting you.
Evi Oct 30th 2009 5:09PM
Agreed. I'm afraid you're going to have to be completely blunt with him. Leechers don't understand when you try to put them down nicely. You're probably going to have to be blunt, and he's probably not going to take it very well. Don't let it bother you, though. Some people are just like that. A lot of us, myself included, have had to deal with the same situation. In my case, I ended up ignoring him. I didn't put him on /ignore, I just stopped responding to his whispers. Eventually he took the hint and stopped pestering me.
shamman22 Oct 31st 2009 8:58AM
What's all this "polite" nonsense? Is it polite for someone to harass you to the point of not even wanting to play the game? How polite is that? Ignore him and all his alts that he whispers you with. If he keeps creating alts just to whisper you, open up a ticket for harassment. I had this happen once. A person I helped a few times, systematically messaged me for "help" seemingly with everything in the game. After bluntly telling the person that I wasn't willing to help them any more, they kept bugging me, so I /ignore'd them and their alts. Trust me, this person will move onto bugging someone else after several ignores or word from a GM about harassment.
ratskinmahoney Oct 30th 2009 9:22AM
@first point
I had a similar issue with my first guild. I didn't know any of them outside WoW, but I joined a new server with my first ever toon and joined areally friendly helpful social and levelling guild. Obviously when some of us began to hit 80 and end-game, our 'needs' changed in terms of the game, we wanted new content, new challenges that the guild wasn't set up to approach very seriously. A few guys just silently /gquit in the night and one guy, I'm pretty sure, even changed his name, cuz he/they didn't want to deal with saying they were deserting the guild to pursue their own interests.
It can be awkward, but the solution, in this case, was pretty simple. A social/casual guild is a great place to level and chill. If you have alts, stick 'em in and move your main on to pastures new. you're still going to be in contact with your guild through your alt, and - presuming that you want to join a raiding guild to hit new content - there should be no issue with your main being around to help out or join in those activities that your guild does get round to doing.
Gamer am I Oct 30th 2009 9:29AM
As a comment on Lisa's response to the second letter, Harassed could use /dnd rather than /afk. It's more honest and doesn't require you to uncheck auto clear afk. I used it during Midsummer after answering the tenth question that day.
/dnd This event is not that hard to figure out. I could figure it out, so you certainly can too.
Harassed could try something like
/dnd What I am doing right now requires my full attention, and I cannot talk to you right now.
JR Oct 30th 2009 9:49AM
"Judging from the number of comments we get from readers for whom "skimming" has obviously replaced "reading" (yes, all of you who bunnyhopped over the point of last week's advice on playing a character of the opposite gender – we're looking at you!), we might be inclined to concur, in a most un-snarky, literal way. "
Yes, because if people don't agree with you, they clearly haven't understood what you REALLY said, right?
Deadly. Off. Topic. Oct 30th 2009 10:22AM
This. ^_^v
Frank Oct 30th 2009 12:30PM
i (for one) carefully read both the question and the answer, and i feel i understood them perfectly. i didn't disagree with the answer, just the route to get to it.
Jeremiel Oct 30th 2009 3:31PM
This.
But having clearly "bunnyhopped" over the point of our comments, the writers of the article evidently missed the fact that whilst we were all well aware they came to the right eventual conclusion, what really caused the stir was the fact that it was even made an issue worthy of debate, as well as the poor way their responses were phrased and the conservative angle taken.
Out of all those commenters (not to mention all those silent up-voters), you can be fairly sure that there's a decent number of intelligent people who fully read the article, and who don't appreciate being patronised or charged with "not reading" just because the writers are feeling a bit defensive.
You'd have been best of just leaving that last post in the past. No need to take a jab at what I would imagine is a large part of your readership in this one.
shoomlah Oct 30th 2009 6:52PM
Thank you, yes! For people who supposedly advise against drama, they did a fine job of stirring up a huge batch of it yesterday. No matter how the commenters on the last post reacted or whom they sided with, they all seemed surprisingly well-informed and opinionated in regards to the topic at hand. The one thing that seriously didn't strike true with me in that entire thread was the use of the word 'fey,' and that was in the original post. :[
-C
Saitenyo Oct 30th 2009 5:17PM
Agreed.
I'm surprised that a column intended to teach people how to avoid drama is taking tactics such as making jabs at commenters who disagreed with them by pulling the old "You just didn't understand my point!" Without acknowledging that people most certainly did and were addressing disagreements with specific things said in the article, not tossing out pointless flames brought on from poor reading comprehension.
Ironic that this article is emphasizing making your point clear. Perhaps if they did not want so many people to "miss their point" they should have avoided all that peripheral about how it's "fey" for a guy to play a girl and how it's only not an issue during this, this and this situation and instead...just left it at a simple, "There's nothing wrong with it if you're not trying to mislead anyone in a malicious way."
If you make a mistake and say something offensive or unclear that you didn't mean, just own up to it and move on. Don't try to turn it around by with petty insults about our reading comprehension.
Perhaps Drama Mamas needs to take a little of their own advice? :/
Rob Oct 30th 2009 9:56AM
I've been in both situations.
Regarding the casual guild, most casuals don't really care if you move to a raiding guild. They wish you well, they want you to have fun. Those who dont care, in short, aren't your friends. Now if it's a casual (fail) raiding guild, yeah you are burning bridges. They will not take you back, and even if they do, its likely going to be a cold shoulder (at least that was my experience) - I wanted to try a move to a more progressed guild, it didn't work, and my old guild didn't really understand. Soon thereafter I left the server to a pretty good group and stayed there for about a year. Now if the casual guild was smart, and after raiding you get bored, go back, and suddenly they have a well-geared guildie that can help them run stuff.
I think it depends on how you do it. Just be really honest. If they can't understand that then IMO they don't want what's best for you. Its not like you are breaking up with your gf and want to 'still be friends'.
The second situation. Yeah, just tell them flat out, 'look dude I want to actually enjoy this game and not run you around all the time, that's not fun for me, hope you can respect that'. I had a bunch of people like that on my old guild, just didnt' really respect my time and space at all. Most people will get it after a while, but if that doesn't work, just put them on ignore and report them for harassment (which is a violation of the terms of service). It's pretty cruel but some people don't really get it (or want to see how far they can push).
Kats Oct 30th 2009 11:07AM
The biggest problem I had with leaving a casual raiding guild was that they really took it personally. I really liked many people in the guild and was conflicted for months. This was in BC days when they didn't have enough to run 25 player raids and Kara was getting old. They didn't have much success in ZA because they raids by sign up order and every week we had new undergeared players starting to raid.
When I decided to move my main to a raiding guild, I explained why I was doing it. I knew the existing casual guild liked their set up, liked not recruiting people for raiding, liked their open sign ups and didn't want to do the things that they would need to do in order to do 25 man raiding. I thanked everyone and was clear I wanted to keep my alts in the guild (at least one of whom was able to do raiding with them if they needed me to or could just be in guild without raiding).
Well, some people in the guild understood and wished me well. They understood that I yearned to see the 25 player content. But, a number of people felt I was being disloyal. One of the officers immediately kicked my alts from the guild and told a friend of mine that what I had told them destroyed people's hope. That is, the officer acknowledged that I was right but they kept up a pretence that someday they would get in to 25 player raiding and would get to the Black Temple and I destroyed that hope. Sigh.
csarcops Oct 30th 2009 9:57AM
I'm having a similar dilemma as the first person, trying to determine where the grass is greener. I belong to a casual family guild that used to raid, but a lot of our more hardcore people split off and made their own guild. Lately we've been trying to get things going and raid again, but meh. I've been running with another casual guild that raids more and takes it more seriously and consequently is better at it, and it's a blast. Even wiping with them is fun. I have been asked several times to apply to join, and I'm sorely tempted. But my current guild is the only one I've ever been in in my 3-4 years of WoWing, they're my friends (some even irl) and the idea of leaving them just really bothers me. Not to mention my husband is an officer (though he's been running with me and this other guild as well). I'm just not sure how to handle it.
nieboh Oct 30th 2009 10:47AM
It seems you have a couple of choices since your husband is an officer.
Perhaps you could approach the other guild with the idea of a guild alliance so you (and other like-minded guildies) can raid with them but stay in your guild.
If the idea of a guild alliance doesn't go over, maybe you could take the things that the new guild is doing that you like and try to introduce those to your current guild.
If your guild resists change, leave an alt so you can still visit and keep up your friendships, explain why you're going, and switch guilds on your main.
Rob Oct 30th 2009 10:06AM
I am running windows 7 with zero problems (dual boot with Vista). I urge people just to try it out. I know at one point it was available at amazon for $50. Anytime there is a new product some people will have trouble. The key is how many. A magazine article that throws alot of ancedotes up is pretty useless. If 99% of the people are having problems then its an issue. If 1% or less, its much less of an issue.