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11-04-2009 @ 1:52PM
I like that they are adding this feature. I just wonder if you can toggle it on after you have defeated the boss? F'instance, say you kill a particular boss and decide that you want to attempt the hardmode version. In ToC, you have that ability since the hardmodes are on a different reset. will it be the same in Icecrown? Or once the boss is dead, you have lost the ability to do the HM for that particular week?
11-04-2009 @ 1:58PM
I assume one boss = one kill (for each raid size). No killing the normal version, then having it respawn and doing it on heroic, and vice versa. Pretty sure by activating heroic you'll get the normal mode loot + hard mode loot.
11-04-2009 @ 2:26PM
Would definitely like to get some clarity on this one as this would put a wrinkle in how my guild will do ICC. I sort of like the fact that we have multiple Raid IDs in TOC and hope it continues to be similar to this (i.e. if you toggle to hard mode you still have the option to go back and do it normal mode). I'm part of a large (ish) guild and while 25 mans are our priority, we still spend 1 night of the week breaking up in to three or four 10 mans and blowing through the 10 man normal content. I'm also part of a 10 man "Hard" mode group that raids outside of normal raid times. We've recently just got Tribute to Insanity in 10 man, but we break up this group and disperse ourselves into the the normal 10 mans to make sure those runs are fast and everyone is getting gear upgrades and emblems. Not to mention the fact that in TOC, 10 man Heroic, 10 man normal, 25 man normal (and some attempts at 25 man Heroic) equates to over 45+ Triumph badges weekly (that excludes H dailies, Ony and VOA). We were hoping to continue this strat going into ICC as 10 mans are a much easier and quicker way to get upgrades vs 25 man limited drops (unless bosses will drop more pieces of loot in 25 mans in ICC than 10 mans?). Regardless, I guess I'll have to withold my judgement until more information is made available.
11-04-2009 @ 3:05PM
To clarify my view on how Hard Modes/Normal Modes have worked so far:OS/Ulduar: Triggered Hard Modes, I agree with other comments that to even get to some of these, it's a gear check, but the lack of flexibility in having both Heroic and Normal saved to the same Raid ID was pretty limiting. While the 10 man "Hard" mode group I'm in did work our asses to get our proto-drakes, it did sort of suck that we couldn't help out other guildies working through normal 10 man Ulduar since were saved already.TOC: Pre-Raid Toggle, was very flexible as I stated above. Allows a group to focus on Hard Modes, knock those out and still be available to help out other guildies get through normal. Obviously, it'd be great if every guildie's gear level was equal all the way through an expansion. Unfortunately, that just isn't the case and you always tend to get that core group of hard core raiders who are there every raid and do hard modes, etc and gear up faster. TOC allows that group to still be available to help out in normal runs and make raids full guild runs versus having to pug a few open spots (NOT that there's anything wrong with that!!! lol). The fact that you only have so many attempts in Heroic mode is also a plus as the "Tribute" aspect of it is a nice touch IMO. ICC: Per Boss Toggle, while details are still sketchy, if you aren't allowed to run both on separate Raid IDs, then we're back to Ulduar/OS inflexibility. Yes, it's more "clear" that this is hard mode, but honestly, I don't think it was that confusing before (i.e. 4 towers, No elders killed, Big Red SHINY Button pushed, etc). With this per Boss toggle, does this mean a raid can just bang their head repeatedly on a heroic mode encounter with no consequence? I liked the limited number attempts in Heroic TOC and hope it stays in ICC somehow. Meh, maybe I'm just qq'ing too much, but I do hope there's some flexibility in ICC where you can run both normal and heroic in different Raid IDs.
11-05-2009 @ 4:51AM
I think an important thing to remember is time frame. We've been in ToC since August if I remember correctly, and we're already talking about ICC, which I'm guessing will drop some time sooner than we can anticipate. ICC has to last us all the way til Cataclysm, so I can see why they'd institute something to make getting loot slower and increase the time around the process of raiding the place. ToC was just a "Get in, get out, get onto the Citadel" kind of raid, so it's incorrect (in my mind) to assume that ICC will have the same sort of instant gratification.
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