Righteous Defense
lays out an intriguing argument for an idea that I still personally can't get behind: paladin stances.
The recent changes around
patch 3.3 have shined a light on paladin versatility, and basically,
paladins are forced to pay the hybrid tax three times over -- because they can do it all without limiting themselves, they can't do anything as well as other classes. So RD makes the suggestion: instead of letting paladins have all of their spells under any aura, it's time to narrow things down a bit.
Devotion Aura becomes tanking stance, gets
Righteous Fury's threat bonus added to it, and enabling it makes pallies lose some other abilities (
Avenger's Shield is RD's suggestion).
Retribution Aura becomes a DPS "stance," with added benefits and costs, and so on. By forcing paladins into a playstyle, you can give them extra power, because you've taken away versatility.
Unfortunately for those in favor, I don't think it'll ever happen. First of all, we already have a class in the game that
uses stances, and I think that this type of gameplay is too close for Blizzard's comfort to implement in the same way on paladins -- they want the classes to play different. Second,
the paladin class design has always focused on the versatility of being a hybrid. While paladins may want to limit themselves to see buffs, Blizzard has never shown an inclination to limit pallies' versatility just to make them more powerful. I like the idea of Righteous Fury's buff getting linked up to something else (it definitely seems like it's out there on its own as an arbitrary tanking buff), but paladins getting a fully implemented stance system doesn't seem likely at all.
Tags: avengers-shield, balance, buffs, class-balance, classes, devotion-aura, hybrid, hybrid-tax, limits, paladin, paladin-stances, pally, patch-3.3, retribution-aura, righteous-defense, versatility
Filed under: Paladin, Analysis / Opinion, Odds and ends, Raiding, Classes, Buffs
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 5)
Clydtsdk-Rivendare Nov 6th 2009 10:04PM
Druid forms are stances as well, when you think about it.
Pemberton Nov 6th 2009 11:11PM
As is Shadowform for priests.
Elmouth Nov 6th 2009 11:12PM
gtfo, I don't want any of the shitty warrior playstyle on my paladin.
Its one fo the big differences that make paladins so enjoyable, people need to stop making hybrids feel bad.
Debesun Nov 6th 2009 11:59PM
As is stealth is for rogues... vaguely
Stances, shadow / animal forms, and stealth are all under the same mechanic which enhances or grants additional abilities at the expense of your effectiveness in other areas. It's just that the mechanic can play major or minor (or less obviouse) roles in how the class plays.
'Stances' play a very major role is classes / specs such as feral druids, increasing the effectiveness of your role while still maintaining the general flexibility of not being completely shut out of abilities such as fury, arms and protection (Yes, I know you can't use certain moves such as Whirlwind, Overpower, Charge and Intercept to name a few. On paper it's only a few abilities that barely effect PvE but can be tedious and sometimes frustrating in PvP), increasing the effectiveness of your role but completely shutting you out of other abilities such as shadowform, boomkin and treekin.
And stealth for rogues that just increases their effectiveness to poke more holes into you.
Oh and I guess you miss clicked the wrong reply button Elmouth? :p
Taladan Nov 7th 2009 2:03AM
And DKs "presences".
Mr. Tastix Nov 7th 2009 5:03AM
No. Death Knights presences are in that equation. Death Knights are just like us in the matter of "stances". I can still use Frost talents in Blood presence or Unholy talents in Frost presence. There's no restriction.
Whilst Frost presence is the generally accepted tanking presence, and Blood is for damage, you don't have skills restricted when in either of those presences like a Warrior does. And, quite frankly, I don't like the idea of stances because it just makes Paladins sound like a bastardized version of a Warrior (who can heal and bubble lol).
Something else is needed, but not stances. Stances bloody suck on my warrior as it is, lol.
Dazaras Nov 7th 2009 1:41PM
Druid forms, rogue stealth and Priest Shadowform are all stances because they switch your actionbars when you use them. Paladin Auras and DK Presences are just like permanent buffs.
Back to my opinion: I see no reason to do this, I have no idea what the OP is talking about with the whole "they can do it all without limiting themselves, they can't do anything as well as other classes". That is ridiculous, my paladin is just as good as any other class and anyone who's ever played a paladin can tell you that trying to fill a role that you don't spec for goes downhill really quick.
As Ret I can occasionally save a 5-man wipe when the healer goes down, but honestly, I've got a grand total of 4 holy lights, max, before I go oom. Druids and Shamans can one up that by bringing the healer back to life. Emergency tanking, again only in 5-mans, only works when both I and the healer well outgear the instance. And no, don't even bother trying to dps as holy. Your entire article is based on faulty assumptions that could be easily remedied by actually playing a paladin, any spec, through one instance.
JR Nov 6th 2009 10:10PM
You can't associate paladin auras to roles like that. For instance, there are cases where a paladin tank will want to use another aura instead of Devotion (Retribution for threat on multiple mobs, or Fire/Shadow/Frost for bosses that deal more magic than physical damage).
To be honest, I don't understand the purpose of warrior stances. What exactly was Blizzard trying to do with this system?
Succulent Nov 6th 2009 10:49PM
It's the whole reason they changed Ret to have benefits across any aura, instead of just retribution aura, in the first place so I don't see this happening.
It used to be that ret aura gave the 3% dmg (and now haste) from talents, rather than it being across all auras.
random Cow Nov 6th 2009 10:11PM
No.
ZaVaZ Nov 6th 2009 10:13PM
THIS IS MADNESS!!!!
mtsadowski Nov 6th 2009 11:46PM
madness... THIS IS... ah, never mind.
Christian Williamson Nov 6th 2009 10:24PM
paladins dont need ANY more love.
Jamie Nov 7th 2009 12:01AM
Sure we do.
Roll Paladin, next time you play World of PaladinCraft!
Muse Nov 7th 2009 9:28AM
Exactly! We are *trying* to get back under the developer radar now, when things are reasonably well (not too shitty, not too OP) so that they'll balance other classes first and then bring us to *that* level instead of the other way around.
Mpmagi Nov 6th 2009 10:17PM
Paladins do NOT pay the hybrid tax three times over. GC stated it twice, a hybrid is a hybrid is a hybrid: druids and paladins do not suffer more.
ash Nov 7th 2009 11:30AM
I agree, I don't feel like I pay the hybrid tax three times over. Plus my versatility seems far more limited than I think other people give credit for. As Ret I can dps and slightly off heal. I don't have access to most if any of the abilities that define prot. In fact the only thing I can say across the board that all Pally's have access to is healing. Prot doesn't have access to a lot of the tools Ret does, but still has the healing component which is useful to varying degrees based on your build.
Gzuss Nov 6th 2009 10:20PM
Paladins pay the hybrid tax? Try Shadow Priests.
Quiz Nov 7th 2009 1:01AM
This.
Shawn Nov 6th 2009 10:21PM
Maybe it could be called.. Libram or something?
Libram Activation? Or something else.