Righteous Defense
lays out an intriguing argument for an idea that I still personally can't get behind: paladin stances.
The recent changes around
patch 3.3 have shined a light on paladin versatility, and basically,
paladins are forced to pay the hybrid tax three times over -- because they can do it all without limiting themselves, they can't do anything as well as other classes. So RD makes the suggestion: instead of letting paladins have all of their spells under any aura, it's time to narrow things down a bit.
Devotion Aura becomes tanking stance, gets
Righteous Fury's threat bonus added to it, and enabling it makes pallies lose some other abilities (
Avenger's Shield is RD's suggestion).
Retribution Aura becomes a DPS "stance," with added benefits and costs, and so on. By forcing paladins into a playstyle, you can give them extra power, because you've taken away versatility.
Unfortunately for those in favor, I don't think it'll ever happen. First of all, we already have a class in the game that
uses stances, and I think that this type of gameplay is too close for Blizzard's comfort to implement in the same way on paladins -- they want the classes to play different. Second,
the paladin class design has always focused on the versatility of being a hybrid. While paladins may want to limit themselves to see buffs, Blizzard has never shown an inclination to limit pallies' versatility just to make them more powerful. I like the idea of Righteous Fury's buff getting linked up to something else (it definitely seems like it's out there on its own as an arbitrary tanking buff), but paladins getting a fully implemented stance system doesn't seem likely at all.
Tags: avengers-shield, balance, buffs, class-balance, classes, devotion-aura, hybrid, hybrid-tax, limits, paladin, paladin-stances, pally, patch-3.3, retribution-aura, righteous-defense, versatility
Filed under: Paladin, Analysis / Opinion, Odds and ends, Raiding, Classes, Buffs
Reader Comments (Page 2 of 5)
Crylexan Nov 6th 2009 10:24PM
The hybrid tax applies ONLY to dps. All tanks and healers are hybrids.
Wyred Nov 6th 2009 10:24PM
Warriors and paladins are already the most similar out of the 4 tanks, no need to make it even closer
Warlen Nov 6th 2009 10:24PM
No. Blizzard needs to remove 'stances' from Warriors not add them to other classes. Warriors have many skills that can't be used in certain stances, how would Paladins feel about having to switch auras to use some skills? Typically this only really affects Warriors in PvP, but unless they add real 'stances' to Paladins there's no real good way to implement this.
Neirin Nov 6th 2009 11:25PM
Welcome to the entire concept of druids.
Reinard Nov 6th 2009 10:26PM
No.
ToyChristopher Nov 6th 2009 10:37PM
Please ret paladins, if you want to be a warrior roll a warrior. Stop asking for paladins to be turned into warriors.
The Real Dim Daily Nov 6th 2009 10:47PM
Homogenization! Isn't this why the holocaust happened?
Kyle Nov 6th 2009 10:53PM
Haha, I think every comment so far sums it up: stupid idea. For a multitude of reasons. Paladins have unarguably been spoiled in Lich King, and now, a year later, when they're finally being brought down a peg, even the less whiny paladins are trying to throw out half-cocked ideas to stop it.
I have a Paladin alt, but I realize the need for the nerfs. When my druid, warrior, and DK have nowhere near the PvP prowess my Paladin does, and my Paladin isn't as well geared as my druid... I think it's time for a change. I may not have a paladin as my main, but still, they are due for this.
havitech Nov 6th 2009 10:55PM
I think this is a dumb and uncreative idea. Furthermore, it was thought up to solve a problem that doesn't even exist. Paladins don't have it any harder than the rest of us hybrids. Please, the last thing this game needs is more homogenization.
Tolkfan Nov 6th 2009 10:59PM
Please don't use the term "stance", it's the feature that makes me hate the warrior class so much. Dumping most rage points for simple things like interrupting or charging or using 2/3rd of abilities...
So don't even suggest adding "stances" for my class! I still remember pre3.0 and seal switching, auto-attackadins, lolrets (the original ones, the ones that were laughed at when trying to dps or do pvp). You can use the term "presence", warriors 2.0 use them :)
KronosIII Nov 6th 2009 11:04PM
Can you sissy pallys stop qq'ing already it is getting annoying. YOUR CLASS IS OP GET OVER IT. YOUR NEED NERFS.
I HAVE A PALLY, COULD NOT LIVE WITH MYSELF AND WENT BACK TO MY WARRIOR. Your class needs to be thrown to the trash.
4 lives, able to cleanse, heal, where plate, A STUN THAT CAN TAKE AWAY HALF OF A PLAYERS HEALTH WHEN YOU SPAM YOUR AUTO ATTACKS.
AHHHHHHH! The class survival rate is just ridiculous. And you can still manage to 4 shot people. Please GC nerf them every patch you have to. I mean for lords sake there is a reason why pallys are the most over played class that doesn't start at level 55.
Its because they are OP beyond redemption.
shadowdk Nov 6th 2009 11:49PM
i think someone got killed by a pally in a battleground.....
people that play there class well don't complain about how OP other places are, get over yourself
KronosIII Nov 7th 2009 12:29AM
@ Shadowdk
I fail to understand what you are trying to say?
PPL that play there class well understand there strong points and there weak points.
And pallys have lots of survival compared to other class as a dps class. And I PLAYED A PALLY. I know what I'm talking about.
Too many of there attacks don't pay attention to armor such as judgments and exorcism. Which puts melee dps classes that count on armor in a bad position. Warriors are made to fight close range . And try there hardest to prevent none armor related spells to be cast on them. To solve that problem they were given shield reflect. But this is worthless to agaisnt a pally that uses mostly instant attacks to attack not giving warrior enough time to pop a shield reflect. This creates a massive issue.
Another problem is the pallys 3-4 lives in combat. The only other classes with this are a lock and a shammy. But they will actually die and there CDs to do so are large.
I could go on, but stick with whatever lame concept you can think of not to nerf them. WHEN GC HAS FULLY STATED THAT THEY NEED NERFING.
olzer Nov 7th 2009 5:34AM
4 Lives, you mean like...Bubble+Healz and Lay on Hands? Oh yeah, I forgot how SMALL our LOH CD is, I mean...15-20mins & not useable in arenas? Pfft.
4 shotting people? Only if they have veeeeery low Resilience.
I agree with Shadow, I think someone around here got roflpwned by a Paladin in a BG and decided "they can kill me!! they need NERFZ!!111ONE!!!"
Wyred Nov 7th 2009 1:10PM
Are you really saying paladins are OP in pvp? Because the way you've phrased it, it sounds like you're complaining about ret pallies, who really, really, aren't OP in pvp. Prot spec healing pallies were OP due to being near unkillable with al,ost infinite regen, but that's about it. Ret burst dmg got nerfed, they are far from the worst class you can come across now. If you're getting battered by ret pallies, you don't have enough pvp gear, end of. And for the record, I don't play a paladin.
mrcalire Nov 6th 2009 11:04PM
For the love all that is HOLY, please no stances.
Go play a warrior and see how lovely those stances work out.
In my humble mace wielding warrior opinion, stances are the worse game mechanic in wow, and that comes from someone that has played almost every class in the game to 60 or higher.
I'm sure some of you love them, but seriously you don't want stances, you really don't.
joel Nov 6th 2009 11:05PM
Maybe tanking/healing/dsping should just suck until you get deep in the tree that performs that role?
Volkrin Nov 6th 2009 11:19PM
It kinda does.
Unless you go deep in holy you will lack any of the abilities that help pally healing branch off from "big heal and little heal", it also contains most of the vital mana efficiency abilities.
Unless you go ret, you will not get crusader's strike or divine storm, which leaves you out about half the ret rotation.
Protection contains most of the valuable survival talents that you really need. I can hardly give you numbers here, and for that I'm sorry, but without those talents you will take a crapload more damage.
You CAN do those roles without be specced for them, as long as you have the gear. But you will NOT be good at it at all.
ToyChristopher Nov 7th 2009 1:33AM
That's how it was before wotlk. Really when people say paladins can "do it all" they mean that ret paladins can heal. The Devs made an effort to make ret paladins healing mean something in wotlk, hence the whole sp conversion talent.
The other thing they are complaining about is prot pallies healing in arena. Once again cause d by a spell power conversion talent.
JR Nov 7th 2009 10:04AM
"The Devs made an effort to make ret paladins healing mean something in wotlk, hence the whole sp conversion talent."
The main purpose of Sheath of Light, and of its sister talent in the Protection tree Touched by the Light, was to allow Protection and Retribution paladins to wear "normal" plate gear and leave the spellpower gear to Holy Paladins. This was IMHO the best change to come to the paladin class in this game. I don't think the problem is the conversion from AP to spellpower, but the fact that this talent ALSO gives a HoT to Retribution paladins.