Righteous Defense
lays out an intriguing argument for an idea that I still personally can't get behind: paladin stances.
The recent changes around
patch 3.3 have shined a light on paladin versatility, and basically,
paladins are forced to pay the hybrid tax three times over -- because they can do it all without limiting themselves, they can't do anything as well as other classes. So RD makes the suggestion: instead of letting paladins have all of their spells under any aura, it's time to narrow things down a bit.
Devotion Aura becomes tanking stance, gets
Righteous Fury's threat bonus added to it, and enabling it makes pallies lose some other abilities (
Avenger's Shield is RD's suggestion).
Retribution Aura becomes a DPS "stance," with added benefits and costs, and so on. By forcing paladins into a playstyle, you can give them extra power, because you've taken away versatility.
Unfortunately for those in favor, I don't think it'll ever happen. First of all, we already have a class in the game that
uses stances, and I think that this type of gameplay is too close for Blizzard's comfort to implement in the same way on paladins -- they want the classes to play different. Second,
the paladin class design has always focused on the versatility of being a hybrid. While paladins may want to limit themselves to see buffs, Blizzard has never shown an inclination to limit pallies' versatility just to make them more powerful. I like the idea of Righteous Fury's buff getting linked up to something else (it definitely seems like it's out there on its own as an arbitrary tanking buff), but paladins getting a fully implemented stance system doesn't seem likely at all.
Tags: avengers-shield, balance, buffs, class-balance, classes, devotion-aura, hybrid, hybrid-tax, limits, paladin, paladin-stances, pally, patch-3.3, retribution-aura, righteous-defense, versatility
Filed under: Paladin, Analysis / Opinion, Odds and ends, Raiding, Classes, Buffs
Reader Comments (Page 5 of 5)
Gingko Nov 7th 2009 9:41AM
The author of this article doesn't know enough about the paladin class to be making any suggestions about it.
Auras are not tied to the performance of any particular paladin role. A paladin might be tanking with frost resistance up, or retribution. Or he might be healing with either of those up. It's the presence of Righteous Fury that signals whether a paladin is tanking. Well, actually, it's the deep Prot spec being active at all that signals this.
And the suggesting that deep Prot pallies lose the ability to use their 41-point talent (Avenger's Shield) when tanking is, to put it mildly, surprising. I guess they'd all have to go back to equipping Linken's Boomerang to pull, huh? The author of this article must really be wanting a major class redesign.
Zinn Nov 7th 2009 10:02AM
"Auras are not tied to the performance of any particular paladin role."
As I understood it the author never claimed it is. Instead he says that the problem is that they aren't and this should change. But yeah, removing AS from tanks is just really odd.
arcaneterror Nov 7th 2009 10:16AM
Paladins? In MY stances? Gtfo.
Signed, a warrior.
Popes Nov 7th 2009 10:37AM
Dear PvPers,
Stop whining and getting my PvE playing ass nerfed for little to no reason. I have no quarrel with you. I just want to DPS in raid. Instead, you get me kicked in the balls and force me to tank. Sadface.
AppleZilla Nov 7th 2009 11:30AM
No stances for pallys. Stances are why I Don't play warriors.
Iwanttobeasleep Nov 7th 2009 12:19PM
Seems like a bad idea to me, particularly if you're the only paladin in raid. What if you need the fire resist but you're a tank or ret? We're not warriors, don't make us warriors.
Sleutel Nov 7th 2009 2:12PM
Stances are already a bad idea for Warriors, who are triple-gimped (the built-in detractors, such as less damage when in Defensive; the inability to use certain abilities in certain stances; and the loss of Rage while changing stances). Why would anyone WANT to bring the same limitation to Paladins?
Dementron Nov 7th 2009 5:19PM
So... enabling Devotion Aura would make paladins lose access to Avenger's Shield. Let me see if I got this right... switching to the "tanking stance" would cause prot paladins to lose access to an ability gained only through a deep-protection talent.
Has this person ever even played a paladin? At all?
Josin Nov 8th 2009 1:51AM
"they can't do anything as well as other classes."
Really? I haven't seen any sweeping changes that make paladins NOT the best tanks, any less of a superior healing force, or less able to pwn face as ret.
IMO, they SHOULD pay the hybrid tax... they've been exempt from it for far too long. Fury Warriors got hit for 10% off the top of their damage, and they're hardly as hybrid as paladins.
But thus far, the 3.3 changes look like, to paraphrase the bard, "Much QQ About Nothing."
Gothia Nov 8th 2009 5:55AM
I don't even know why they are worried about these other things. The only thing that makes Pallies hard to kill is that bubble that you can't hit them for a long time while they pound you in the ground or heal to full. That is why it feels like killing 2 players so get rid of that and keep everything else and they will be fine.
kordan Nov 8th 2009 8:42PM
The argument is based on a flawed premise - ie. that paladins aren;t as good as other classes.
paladin tanks are still better for 90% of tanking than warrior tanks, holy pallies are still regarded as the best single target healers. i really dont care how bad my pally dps is given i can choose between all these options
those who want to argue for increased capabilties for the class are lost in a very narrow frame of view. It is already clearly the most powerful class in the game since the dk nerf train
I also have a prot warrior. Compared to the prot pally it plays quite similarly - but just not as powerful or versatile. Though the animations are cooler imo.
pally=ezmode Nov 11th 2009 5:27PM
"Blizzard has never shown an inclination to limit pallies' versatility just to make them more powerful."
Yup, historically Blizzard chooses instead to keep the versatility AND make them more powerful.
pesho Nov 12th 2009 3:15PM
What "versatility" exactly are we talking?
Having the "3-role" class means nothing, unless you have gear to back these roles up. Druids and Pallys in practice are not more hybrid than a priest or a warrior or a shaman or a DK - you get 2 talent specs, 2 gear kits, etc.
Really... i leveled my druid faster, than it took me to gear my pally for healing (being tank/dps at that time)
There are like 10% of the fights, where being Pally tank actually has an edge over other tanking classes. Mana based TPS is not helping either, considering there's no +int on pally tanking gear. How Blizz "fixed" that - they nerfed threat generation to make the problem even worse!
PvE DPS? Start wearing gear significantly better that other raid members - and you'll start showing up on the DPS meter... not at the top of course.
Let's be honest - Blizz failed on pally design at least 3 times - 1. by making them hugely OP in the beginning, 2. by applying inadequate nerfs that basically didn't fix nothing and 3. by not having the guts to say "ok, we fucked up - let's really redesign the class from the scratch"