The Care and Feeding of Warriors: How to get hit in the face

One of the interesting things about being a raiding tank again after about a year of DPS is how you come to enjoy being hit in the face. Or wherever they're hitting you, really... tonight I spent a lot of time using Spell Reflection to keep a giant robot head angry at me while the floor erupted in flames all around. That treacherous floor, always erupting in flames when you stand on it. Quite honestly, at this point it's really all I expect from the floor. If it's not on fire or seething void energies then icicles are falling down on it or there's paralytic poison or it just plain disintegrates and I plummet into a subterranean lair.
As I've relearned tanking (since not only do we have a lot more tricks than when I was last tanking in raids, but there's a whole different skillset when tanking for 9 or 24 other people compared to 4 other people) I've had a lot of discussions not only with tanks of other classes, but also with warrior tanks from other groups, since I'm the only raiding warrior tank in my current guild. So now seems like as good a time as any to discuss what's going on in tanking.
If you've been paying attention to the 3.3 PTR patch notes you've noticed that there's little direct change for warriors, tanking or otherwise. However, there are some nice little bits of change coming in.
- Taunt Diminishing Returns: We've revised the system for diminishing returns on Taunt so that creatures do not become immune to Taunt until after 5 Taunts have landed. The duration of the Taunt effect will be reduced by 35% instead of 50% for each taunt landed. In addition, most creatures in the world will not be affected by Taunt diminishing returns at all. Creatures will only have Taunt diminishing returns if they have been specifically flagged for that behavior based on the design of a given encounter.
In general, however, warriors are seeing almost no changes to their tanking abilities, outside of Damage Shield getting tweaked to no longer trigger chance on hit abilities for the warrior or anyone hitting him or her. And that's probably fine. Warriors are pretty solid tanks right now.
I am not saying that there's no room for improvement or that there aren't things I'd like to see added for warriors. For starters, I'd like it if we didn't have to use two glyph slots to have equivalent cooldowns to Death Knights. Having two of my three major glyphs spoken for is kind of annoying. Now, they're nice glyphs... I can't imagine not having the Glyph of Last Stand and the Glyph of Shield Wall and saying I was serious about tanking... but it does leave me feeling as though I really only have one major glyph slot to play with and a lot of major glyphs I'd like to be using. (At present, due to TotC 25 gear being somewhat lower on hit than I like, I'm switching between the Glyph of Taunt and Glyph of Vigilance on a per fight basis.)
I also still feel that warrior AoE threat is second rate if only due to the combination of needing to wait for rage and having long cooldowns on our AoE threat abilities. Now, the Glyph of Vigilance does help with this to some extent (especially if you have Vig on a healer with high threat or an AoE DPSer) and there's no denying that both Thunder Clap and Shockwave are very solid AoE tools. You can even use Cleave to help out (I have two Devastate macros, one that hits Heroic Strike every time I use it and another that lights up Cleave, using each macro as the situation seems to warrant) but something I'd really like to see is to finally do away with the last holdover from the days of Retaliation, Recklessness and Shield Wall being linked long cooldown abilities. Frankly, Retaliation is a great AoE tanking ability and the only real down side to it at present is having to switch stances twice to use it. I wouldn't mind so much except it really does nothing useful for Arms or Fury spec warriors in instances or raids. Yes, it's a nice "Aaagh I pulled way too many mobs" button while soloing. But if you simply allow Retaliation to be used in Defensive Stance (either via a talent or glyph or just letting that old restriction go) you've got a nice tool for AoE tanking. At present I generally use Challenging Shout - Ret - Shield Block as fast as I can if an AoE pull goes bad, to get them back on me and get as much threat to them as possible.
Warriors in general suffer most from AoE threat issues when they're too focused on Avoidance/Mitigation/Effective Health over threat stats anyway. Part of this is a design issue, frankly. I've said it before and I'll say it again, it's not feasible for warrior tanks to gear with the hit and high strength for AP to really put out big Thunder Clap/Cleave threat when we're taking in the age of 27k hits. My tanking sets vary greatly depending on what I'm doing. I have a very high hit/block value set for AoE threat from Damage Shield as well as solid single target threat from Shield Slam that I wear in most five mans... it sacrifices close to 4k health unbuffed (I run in raids in a tank set that's close to 41k health unbuffed, my heroics set is slightly under 36k) to add much more hit rating, block value and raw AP. I find that no, my AoE threat isn't much of an issue in heroics even with crazy DPS who have no idea how to wait for threat, but there's no way I could wear this set in TotC (and really, aside from Anub adds where I wear a block rating set that pushes passive unhittable, there's not much trash to be had in TotC 25 anyway) or even Ulduar.
I'm actually kind of hoping that Chill of the Throne really will end up with a design ethos that has bosses hitting more often but for less damage, because then a block set would actually be useful. You wouldn't want to go nuts lowering your health to ridiculous levels trying to push block rating and block value, but you could design a set of gear that didn't just push effective health past all other concerns and actually wear some gear designed around threat as well.
I judged warrior tanks as being the second best tanks at everything a while back, and I'd argue that's still the case. But the margin is so small now that judging who the best tank is at anything ends up in a quagmire debate between tanks that really, ultimately, gets you nowhere. It actually might be the case that right now, being a sure thing for almost the best at any possible tanking job is the right place to be. It gives warrior tanks a touch of the old catbird seat: you can spend hours trying to decide which tank is the absolute, down to the smallest margin best candidate, or you can just have the warrior tank it and save yourself all that time and effort.
Filed under: Warrior, Patches, Analysis / Opinion, Odds and ends, News items, Classes, (Warrior) The Care and Feeding of Warriors






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Angus Nov 6th 2009 6:19PM
I really never see a reason to have that much health in a heroic. Unless it is a pug healer or someone I know is not super at it, I am wearing T7 stuff with as much block and some hit added in. (Tankadin)
Most mobs just plain don't hurt me enough with melee in a set where I block over 3K on normal hits. I have seen close to 9K crits with my "shield slam" and the mobs go down pretty fast when the tank is pushing 2.7K dps average.
You can probably drop some health if the gear has better block and hit. You'll be demolishing those heroics. :)
Matthew Rossi Nov 6th 2009 6:36PM
You're a paladin. You hit harder in equivalent gear. No warrior is going to be putting out the DPS of a paladin tank, ever, for any reason, no matter what happens. Our AoE doesn't come close to yours for damage.
That being said, I do tend to go for move SBV in heroics. It's just easier to push threat that way.
Angus Nov 6th 2009 7:12PM
Oh, I wasn't saying you should do that much damage, but adding SBV and dropping 3-4K health to increase your hit, str, and expertise to the point where you are doing a lot more damage is the way to go.
About the only other thing I have done is have the healer go DPS during heroics while I wear my Raid avoidance set and they just heal me when we need it.
As for your other points, I really think Vigilance just needs to go. Remove the talent completely, increase the amount of damage a warrior does by an equal amount and that will bring you closer to being in line with the other tanks for damage.
I look forward to seeing what they do in cataclysm. I hope you guys get a major boost in DPS. It is dumb that DPS is doing well over 5K and tanks have again began lagging far behind.
Roland Nov 6th 2009 6:21PM
Could you talk more about your glyph choices? My Warrior is all of level 23, but Glyph of Blocking seems like the best for mitigation, and superior to Taunt and Vigilance (most dps have threat drops). Are the cooldown reductions just for Anub'arak? Is Glyph of Shockwave useful for AoE/add-tanking situations? Presumably Glyph of Revenge/Heroic Strike aren't needed for boss tanking, but they're nice for leveling.
Matthew Rossi Nov 6th 2009 6:34PM
Honestly, I can't imagine any sort of progression tanking without Last Stand and Shield Wall glyphed. Blocking's threat is not as good as you'd expect: the Glyph of Vigilance is popping my TPS up more than Blocking did. And Glyph of Taunt is mostly for "I must not miss this taunt" fights like Heroic Gormok. (I also tend to put Vig on whoever will be tanking him before me so that I can taunt again immediately if it fails.) It's not a question of DPS having threat drops, Blocking just isn't as good as you'd expect.
HS glyph is nice but it's more for five mans and leveling: I don't have rage issues tanking in raids unless I just outgear the heck out of them. I actually really liked the Revenge/HS combination before they introduced Shield Wall's glyph, but I just can't say no to having 2 minute tanking cooldowns.
Delmonico Nov 7th 2009 10:22AM
Matt, you have something missing when you talk about the Glyph of Shieldwall. That is it should always be paired with 2/2 in Improved Disciplines, something like this: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#LVZGV00xZVutMg0didczsGo:rTiomM
I know, there are some points that can be flopped around depending on preference, especially Focused Rage but it has the bulk of a progression tank's talent choices.
This pairing is what truly puts Prot Warrior cooldowns on par with DK's. Vene from Tankspot has a good article about it on tankingtips.com
Del
greenthumbs Nov 6th 2009 6:37PM
"...since I'm the only raiding warrior tank in my current guild."
0_0
What other tanks does your current guild have?
Matthew Rossi Nov 6th 2009 6:39PM
We run with a feral druid and we have two raiding paladin tanks as well, although we usually only have three tanks online per raid. We have a DPS warrior with up to date tanking gear who switches over to tank for us when it's necessary and we had a DK tank for a long while but he ended up having to leave the game: we have a DPS DK now who also switches over from time to time for us.
Karilyn Nov 6th 2009 6:46PM
I hadn't noticed the Damage Shield nerf before you said it.
Well that's official, I'll be speccing out of Damage shield next patch. 12% block chance? And no damage shield on hits? No thank you, that's a waste of 2 talent points.
At this point, why are they nerfing warrior AOE threat when we already have by a wide margin the worst AOE threat of any tank? That's just plain silly.
Matthew Rossi Nov 6th 2009 6:49PM
The nerf to Damage Shield isn't that bad. What will be happening is, if you have a trinket that can proc when you hit someone, Damage Shield damage to someone else won't trigger it anymore.
You'll still do Damage Shield damage to anyone who hits you. You just won't also activate abilities like Greatness or any "I just took damage help" procs from trinkets or talents the guy who hit you might otherwise get when your Damage Shield hit HIM.
Karilyn Nov 6th 2009 6:57PM
Ahh, I misread that then.
Jabadabadana Nov 6th 2009 7:05PM
Funny, I've one shotted bosses in ToGC10 in a tank set that has a little over 36k hp unbuffed, and is not completely gemmed out for stamina. I have gems with expertise, and strength on them *gasp.*
I don't have a use for a vigilance glyph, and to be perfectly honest, and I've never needed the last stand or shield wall glyphs to get through content.
But maybe that's just me.
I do agree on wanting retaliation in defensive stance. It's one of those things I don't bother with because I lose too much time getting it on, and back into defensive stance. I think there may be pvp implications however... though I'm not sure they are enough to warrant against such a change. PVP prot is negligible, and arms warriors already use retal.
Delmonico Nov 7th 2009 10:25AM
I am pretty sure they dealt with the PVP issues of Retaliation when Blizz added the great big CC me graphic whenever a warrior uses Retaliation.
Siaperas Nov 6th 2009 7:10PM
I have to say that I agree that warrior tanks are in a good spot now, and I agree that we could use a just a little more damage and aoe threat. That said, I'm still gratetful for my very large tool box I get to use in fights. As much as I would love to do more damage as a tank, that really only becomes an issue when trying to decide what kind of total dps we need for a hard mode. As far as AOE threat is concerned, that's a non-existant issue in heroics, and it only steps up during certain boss encounters. I'm sure if we get any big changes, it will be with Cataclysm, and as long as I'm up front slamming my shield, batting with my weapon, and yelling at something ugly, I'll be happy.
Siaperas Nov 6th 2009 7:26PM
For lower level tanking, I personally prefer glyph of revenge for free heroic strike, and thus more threat and even more dps if your having rage problems. At lower levels, I haven't noticed mitigation being as big of a deal. When you get into BC dungeons start to hit much harder, and you'll need to pay closer attention to your mitigation.
My preference for glyphs is to pick ones that help with more threat for leveling dungeons and heroics, as I rarely have had to use my cool downs in leveling dungeons or even heroics. The glyphs could save your butt if something goes bad, but I get more mileage out of threat glyphs. Raiding will be a different story all together. You'll use your cool downs much more often in raids and there's a great chance you'll want glyphs to beef those up.
If you take a minor glyph, I recommend glyph of bloodrage to give yourself free rage with no health cost. That's extra free rage which is nice soloing or pugging with anxious dps.
Sleutel Nov 6th 2009 7:57PM
It says a lot that there is over a 12k difference in HP... UNBUFFED... between my MaxEH and my Unhittable sets.
Shadowhaxor Nov 6th 2009 8:23PM
I like to add Glyph of Cleave in there for that extra AoE threat as well, works out pretty well.
Aedilhild Nov 6th 2009 8:39PM
Since my alt protection warrior has only tanked heroics or off-tanked raids, I have Cleave glyphed — combined with careful and timely tab-targeting, it makes group pulls easy and orderly.
I've come to a conclusion about improvements, since tanking prot warrior still imposes unique challenges: don't add any abilities similar to those of other tanks, especially persistent AOE; and don't simply increase abilities' damage or threat.
Embrace the warrior's idiosyncrasies. Pull a second off of Taunt's cooldown, ten or fifteen off of Mocking Blow; reduce the minimum range of Intervene; make Vigilance a more effective duck blind.
Keep encouraging the protection warrior player to use every one of his character's abilities, but give him a slightly wider margin of error.
Mohrlock Nov 6th 2009 10:15PM
Nice article Mr. Rossi :) Refreshing to see your return to tanking; not that I didn't enjoy all your dps articles of recent time :)
Pud Nov 6th 2009 11:46PM
I'd like to see a sword and board like ability linked to Thunderclap. The only requirement for this would be to make sure it does not proc too often where warriors are constantly spamming TC. I find that most times if I could get 1 more clap in during an AOE pull I could hold threat just fine.