Blizzard: Arenas were a mistake.

He begins by saying that he wishes that the servers had been more stable at launch, and that there had been more of them, but he says that in terms of design, Arenas were the single biggest mistake in WoW's history.
Says Pardo:
Pardo indicates that most of the changes to the game since launch have been a success -- the shrinking of raid sizes, the addition of Heroic dungeons, etc -- but that Arena has been a huge headache for Blizzard and players alike. He goes on to say that if he had the choice, he'd either go back to WoW's beginnings and change the fundamentals of class balance, or, barring that, would nix the decision to add Arenas during the development of the Burning Crusade expansion.We didn't engineer the game and classes and balance around it, we just added it on, so it continues to be very difficult to balance. Is WoW a PvE cooperative game, or a competitive PvP game? There's constant pressure on the class balance team, there's pressure on the game itself, and a lot of times players who don't PvP don't understand why their classes are changing. I don't think we ever foresaw how much tuning and tweaking we'd have to do to balance it in that direction.
A pretty candid statement about a pretty controversial topic. It's good to see that Blizzard understands that the implementation of Arenas was a mistake for a game like WoW. Of course, Pardo also says that they can't just axe Arenas completely, at least not yet, so we may be stuck with them for a while. Sorry about your PvE burst damage, guys.
You can read the full interview with Rob at the Warcry Network. It's not all about Arena, I promise.
Filed under: The Burning Crusade, Wrath of the Lich King, Arena, Hardware
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Reader Comments (Page 6 of 9)
Jamin Nov 13th 2009 7:12PM
Battlegrounds are where it's at in WoW PVP in my opinion and even Arena has screwed with that in terms of gear imbalance. The best PVP gear is only made available to arena players and those who do BGs exclusively are destroyed by the players in the 1800+ arena gear. Personally I'm most excited about rated BGs in Cataclysm. I'm hoping it causes a de-emphasis on Arena and brings back a resurgence in BG fun.
I do understand the appeal of Arena--it has a very high skill cap and I have a great deal of respect for the gladiators, but I personally find Battlegrounds more fun--there is an emphasis on teamwork and strategy over gear, and class imbalance can be overcome.
marco Nov 13th 2009 7:35PM
I dunno about a de-emphasis...for nonserious pvpers, it means about double the arena points!
Lemons Nov 13th 2009 7:13PM
Meh...honestly all this pvp balancing sucks the fun out of pvp as well. It used to be some classes you would always beat and then other classes would be your hard counter. I used to laugh when I saw certain classes come at me, or cringe when I saw other classes.
Now everythings gotta be equal, and that means even the worst, keyboard turning, ability clicking nubcake is still a threat because he can throw out an instant 8k skillburst even if he's in northrend quest greens. Balancing for arenas just makes everyone so much more annoying in BGs.
Arena is a concerted effort to get a kill. Once the first person on the other team dies the game is more or less decided. So everyone throws everything they have to get off that first kill. That amount of pressure means people need extremely good defensive CDs at their disposal if they're going to survive for even 5 seconds, and many classes just weren't designed with any survivability baked-in so they get all these bullshit talents and abilites tacked on just to make them "arena viable."
In BGs you get attacked, then you get left alone, attacked, left alone, etc. so that whenever you're attacked you usually have all your awesome defensive CDs. There's no ganking anymore, and it's just not right, it's like everyone is a Paladin. You can't pick off the weakest member of the herd because he'll just throw up some sort of damage shield and just SURVIVE.
If I outgear someone, and I mean REALLY outgear them, I should be able to gank them. Plain and simple. Instead, everyone is designed to take massive punishment and healers are designed to take two dps to bring them down. The BG experience is horrible nowadays and hinges almost completely on who has the most/best healers, and exacerbated by the fact that no class can be bursted anymore meaning there's plenty of time for those healers heal them up.
lee3821 Nov 13th 2009 7:39PM
You have excellent points. TBH I'd like a return of the old mage idea, in BG's for fire. Frost should still be able to dance around someone forever(which it kind of can't with all the gap closers now unless you're extremely skilled, and to be honest, I'm not) and take little damage while dealing not much either. However, I'd like to have fire be the spec where if you let them get that fireball off, you'll regret it. In essence, I want fire to have huge damage to go with its tiny survivability. Even though atm you can be very annoying as fire vs large groups, it really isn't that great a spec, because even though you can annoy people, you don't really do a ton of damage, and you go down really easily. Arcane is more like old fire even...If you let a mage in pve gear get arcane blast 4 stacked, he's going to destroy you.
lee3821 Nov 13th 2009 7:40PM
Well, not destroy you, but it'll hurt.
saraquel Nov 14th 2009 12:40PM
What? These are horrendous points. It boils down to:
a) Some classes should have no chance against other classes; and
b) I shouldn't have to put any effort in to killing some players.
If you honestly believe this, you shouldn't be involved in PvP at all. PvE is the medium designed to support this attitude.
Vagabond33 Nov 13th 2009 8:05PM
1. Take arenas away.
2. Release a new game called "World of Warcraft: The Battle for Azeroth" or something that is strictly arena and maybe a BG or two.
3. Allow players to upload their arena-geared toon to the new game.
4. Allow new players to create new toons and earn/purchase gear through points.
5. Have servers of varying rankings/difficulties so new players won't get as easily pwned.
6. Maybe release it as a console game down the line.
7. Everyone is happy. Blizzard is richer.
vaarsej Nov 13th 2009 8:05PM
Removing arena would be a bad thing. What I suggest is they do the same as they did with loltwink BGs - offer an incentive to do an alternate thing to Arena, that is more fun and offers similar rewards.
Hmm, maybe something like giving Arena points every time you BG ? That would be so awesome. My guild recently bit the PVP bug, and we've been sending small incursions of 3-4 players into BGs pregrouped. And we always bring a small party of maybe 10 or so players to the tower workshops in WG. It's obvious that if you eliminate the pressure cooker style of arena matches, more people will join in PVP.
Besides, the hardcore arena players will probably move on to GW2 when it comes out.
The Claw Nov 14th 2009 12:52AM
"maybe something like giving Arena points every time you BG ?"
If I'm not mistaken, they're dipping a toe into that pond in 3.3, giving arena points for the daily battleground quest, aren't they?
Jademalo Nov 13th 2009 8:18PM
Im completley against arena balance afecting PvE.
But i dont want to see arenas removed.
If arenas were removed, then IMO it would be a loss. What i do want to see however is class design not focused around arenas and arenas going back to "fun extra" to do in your spare time.
Thats how i play currently, and i have a little 2v2 team that i do with a mate when were both a bit bored, just so we can pass the time and have a little fun.
In my honest opinion, if something is overpowered in arena, Just ignore it. If its stupid like a oe hit unavoidable kill, then sure, give it a little nerf but only if its stupidly insane.
Also, the general talk about talent trees.. Well, i dont agree with seprate talents. Quite frankly I just think one tree out of the three should be more pvp focused, and for druids/paladins, just add a couple of talents here or there with pvp benefits that noone would want in pve
Rilgon Nov 14th 2009 1:27AM
"Quite frankly I just think one tree out of the three should be more pvp focused"
Absolutely NOT. Stupidity like this is why Frost Mages and Subtlety Rogues are worthless for raiding because "if we made them good at pve they'd be good at everything since they're good at pvp!!!!!!!". People who enjoy a certain spec should not be punished by subpar PVE performance just because a spec is decided arbitrarily to be "da pvp spec".
simplegeekace Nov 13th 2009 8:20PM
My biggest problem with Blizz and balancing the classes because of PVP issues and not so much PVE issues is that alot could be simply fixed with simple tags. Is the target a player? Then do X% less or more damage. Is player in PVP arena or bg? Then abilities A, D, GG and Y do not work or take longer to recharge. Simple things in my opinion. But I know it'd be hard to implement, balance. But beats them changing PVP issues that screw up PVE (coughcouchpaladinscoughcough).
Hampster Nov 13th 2009 8:27PM
Perhaps the better option than removing arenas (at this point undesirable and unlikely) is to do to it what it has done to so many other fun spells and items in this game and nerf it to uselessness. IE. Remove arena rewards.
Fables429 Nov 13th 2009 8:51PM
If they ever got rid of Arena I would quit WoW instantly.
I know not everyone feels the same way. But Arena is the only good thing WoW has and ever did.
PeeWee Nov 14th 2009 8:18AM
Can I have your stuff?
deluded spider Dec 31st 2009 7:02AM
I absolutely cannot wrap my head around why anyone in their right mind would play WoW if they're only in it for PVP/arena. Seriously, I can't comprehend it. It's an MMORPG. And it blows my everloving mind that PVE can EVER be nerfed due to PVP concerns, when 99.99% of the game is about PVE.
I think absolutely everything should be balanced around PVE, or else I don't see the point of this game.
ToyChristopher Nov 13th 2009 8:53PM
Why don't they just make them have different rules? They already do-- they should just take it further or buff the value of resilience.
Yes it's annoying to have two different set of rules but unless they make pvp more like pve, or pve more like pvp it will continue to be a huge headache to everyone.
Tridus Nov 14th 2009 7:33AM
Resilience is part of the problem with the current arena design, though. It makes arena heavily gear dependent, and telling people you have to go grind out a ton of gear before you're allowed to win arena games is a great way to turn people off.
Riltia Nov 13th 2009 8:56PM
I'm in the "They should balance them seperately" group.
They could: Remove resilience, introduce PvP specs and keep arena.
or
They could: Remove resilience, remove PvP from specs (exempting stun reduction etc), introduce something I saw in a comment above - i.e. add a -20% damage debuff or something
or
They could: Keep resilience, keep PvP as it is, and continue with the QQ.
I think they're two completely different styles of gameplay, and they should be kept as seperate as possible.
Hubuly Nov 13th 2009 9:02PM
I can see them eventualy get rid of arenas and make all the goblins that start arena matches to have theyre gear changed to look like hobos and have them say things when you talk to them like
"Spare change? haven't had food since the arena bust"
and ill be like no