Ready Check: You're fired

For the last few weeks in Ready Check, we've been talking about some of the more difficult tasks that face raid leaders. We talked first about some tips in communicating with raid members. Then, last week, we covered some ideas about how to coach raid members.
But what happens when you've stepped up your communication and provided repeated coaching, but the raid member in question still isn't working out? When you're left with no option except to excise the raid member from your group? We could call it a dozen different things but it all boils down to this: you have to fire your raid member.
I want to make it clear that I'm not talking about how to get rid of people. It's probably more in the hands of your guild officers whether or not the raid member is still going to be in your social circle. But how do you tell someone, "Look mate, we like you, but you can't raid with us anymore."
Let's talk about it after the jump.
0. Warn them.
Step 0 is numbered that way on purpose. If the simple pre-requisite of warning someone that you might fire them hasn't already been met, then you really shouldn't proceed on to the other steps.
We've talked about coaching already. When a raid member's lack of performance has come to the point that further coaching is no longer helpful, make sure you tell that raid member, "This is the last time we can talk about this."
It's not a threat, or a promise, or any other tough-guy internet speak. You're setting an expectation that the performance must be improved, or you will have to fire them from the raid. That keeps the action from being a surprise when it comes time to go into the final talk.
A lot of the pain of being expelled from a raid comes when the raid member wasn't expecting it. "I had no idea it had come to this," should be about the very last thing you want to hear. Among other things, it probably means that you didn't do an adequate job of coaching the raid member ahead of time.
1. Do it yourself.
In many real world organizations, there's a human resources staffer or an attorney who handles the firing of an employee. There are a whole host of legal and business obligations that have to be met when letting someone go, and that person is specially trained to help make sure those obligations are met. Additionally, that specially trained representative probably knows a dozen techniques to help empathize and comfort a fired employee.
But we're not talking about a real world organization. Even if you're in the most hardcore raiding guild to ever fire up a DKP spreadsheet, you're still a relatively small-scale social group. There's frequently an aspect of social construction around a guild, but at the end of the day -- you're a bunch of peeps playing a game.
If the decision to fire a raid member is made, the person who does the firing should lead the discussion. First, only you know the full gamut of reasons that led to this moment. Only you can really, fully explain the reasoning. We'll talk about why you need that knowledge here in a second.
2. Don't do it by yourself, though.
While it's certainly true that the raid member will know something's up as soon as they enter a Ventrillo channel with their trusted raid leader and the guild's morale officer . . . you still shouldn't do this by yourself.
I understand that firing a raid member with a partner will feel like you're ganging up on the poor chap. But this is one of those "protect the raid member, protect yourself, protect the raid" moments. It only takes a cursory scan of Guildwatch to see dozens of drama explosions because two guys dropped into a channel, and someone got fired in private.
Short of an audio Vent log, anyone's story in a private chat is suspect. Even the most virtuous raid leader could let their emotions get a hold of them.
Taking a partner into this situation will provide a veneer of officiality and decorum that will helpfully prevent most dramatic situations from happening.
3. Do your homework and be specific.
There are reasons that you're firing this raid member. You've hopefully even covered those reasons in previous coaching sessions. You should be ready to describe exactly why you're letting someone go, and how this decision came about.Hopefully, when a player is fired from your raid, that player won't quit the game in a blinding fit of depression. They'll move on to other raids and guilds, and hopefully find a group with which they can further succeed.
Think of this "you're fired" moment as the ultimate, final coaching session. Bring the same items to this firing session as you would to a coaching session. As a good, decent person, you should want to see them do well in other places. If your criticism is honest and genuine, then helping make sure they know why this happened will further equip the raid member to succeed in their next guild.
4. Don't hold back.
Notice that I said "honest and genuine." There's more to that than being a nice guy. If the raid member is being let go for inappropriate conversation, tell them that. You don't need to hide it by simply saying "This isn't working out." Be honest, and let them know "Your jokes during raids can't be tolerated, and I warned you that would happen."
People can usually tell that someone's being disingenuous, and hiding your motivations isn't going to be helpful.
5. No need to beat them up.
Just as much as you shouldn't hold back logical, real reasons why someone's being fired from your raid, there's no reason to go on too long about a single subject either. Realize and be aware that this is an end (at least for now) for the raid member's association with your raid.
There's no need to rough them up. You control the raid, not the person being fired. If you want to say things like "I always knew this would happen" or "I kept telling" ... then just stop. You're not being productive any longer.
6. End the conversation.
Ideally, this conversation should take absolutely no longer than ten minutes. It's a short conversation. "I'm sorry, Bob, but I can't bring you back to raids. I've asked you ten times to re-gem your gear, but you still haven't done that."
It's a natural reaction that the raid member will want to argue their case. It's okay to let the raid member express themselves, but don't let it turn into a diatribe or debate. It's not helpful -- you've made your decision.
Express to the raid member that you've appreciated their time, and that you hope they're successful in the future... somewhere else.
Summary
Ultimately, I want to warn you that this isn't going to be easy. Firing a raid member is always a little harsh, and there's only so much you can do about that. But you absolutely should be honest, and do your best to control the conversation.
Good luck out there.
Ready Check is here to provide you all the information and discussion you need to bring your raiding to the next level. Check us out weekly to learn the strategies, bosses, and encounters that make end-game raiding so much fun.Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Ready Check (Raiding)






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Cosmo Nov 13th 2009 9:06AM
No more, no less. Good guide!
Midorie Nov 14th 2009 10:49PM
Line your raid up outside of ToC and say "Everyone who has a raid spot, please step forward; NOT SO FAST JONNY RET PALLY!"
Vonmises Nov 13th 2009 9:21AM
Good article. Very professional.
Sounds like a good way to break up with your gf too ><
Bain Nov 13th 2009 10:31AM
does that include getting another of your groups officers to sit and listen in :P
Jimmy the Snitch Nov 13th 2009 9:35AM
While I like you approach to the situation, as someone who has fired many people in my professional, non-game life, I can say that you may have overvalued your second (#2, that is) step, and have undervalued the clichéd "sandwich approach."
Given the propensity for drama and "my word against yours" situations, firing a raid member person-to-person, one on one would still be the preference. You are correct that including another person would feel like ganging up on the firee, which automatically puts the person on the defensive and at a disadvantage. In one on one situations, people at least feel like that have the opportunity to be heard. But against numbers, people can often act out and/or use brashness to cover up any real feelings or thoughts and undermine any real discussion that might have been possible.
Also, the tried and true sandwich approach of criticism, though clichéd is still powerful. It's important to convey to the potential firee exactly why this person was invited to participate in raids (often reminding them of their prior enthusiasm and focus), to demonstrate that these were obvious and noticeable benefits of their involvement. Only after establishing a basis of positives (and by proxy, expectations), you can outline the areas of incompatibility and failure. Verbally drawing a bottom line to them, and citing when opportunities to change were granted and prior warnings delivered, do you substantiate your case for dismissal.
It is also important to attain a certain level of agreement. This can be done simply by asking the potential firee if they can understand why you would cite a particular behavior or performance as a detriment or failure; and working toward their acknowledgement. This makes the actual dismissal much easier since they have essentially agreed with your evaulation.
Then close with something optimistic and positive, hence the sandwiching of the negatives with two positives.
It's never easy, but often it just has to be done.
jrizutko Nov 13th 2009 9:53AM
Good article, great comment, but all this talk of sandwiches has me hungry.
Lorini Nov 13th 2009 9:34AM
Kudos, I hope a lot of guilds read this.
Hoggersbud Nov 13th 2009 9:45AM
Hire Dale Gribble.
Actually, I think you're missing out on step -1, though I suppose it might make a part of step 0.
Have a clear system in place of minimal competence in place. Post requirements for gearing/enchanting/gemming. Have rules for attendance. Note the addons people should have and if you want, whether vent or other voice chat is needed. Any other rules you need.
Now my guild, very casual. The 10 people who are on are the ones who tend to raid, and while we're not progression oriented, we get by. Not far, not fast, but we're ok with that.
Mordockk Nov 13th 2009 9:55AM
All you need is add-ons like Orbituary and Recount to put some hard evidence of underperformance infront of the guy...definitely make it well known that you are "reviewing the numbers" and 'consistant underperforming will be punished by removal from raid"....you should always have an officer on gear check duty to be sure no one is gemming/chanting incorrectly.
uncaringbear Nov 13th 2009 10:00AM
When dealing with guildies feels more like an exercise in HR, something is wrong. While I agree with the sentiments and advice in this post, using phrases such as, "You're fired", makes raiding sound an awful like work. I realize some guilds take their raiding extremely serious, but for those of us in lass hardcore guilds, dealing with raid members who may not be performing at acceptable levels does not need to be approached with such a cold and harsh manner.
Unless your guild leader is Donald Trump...
John Nov 13th 2009 10:40AM
Uncaringbear - way to go against your forum name ;)
I am in a casual guild where a lot of folks who join are relatives / friends / significant others. We often feel like there's no way to get some people to sit out a raid for a better player (better tank, dps, healer, etc.) when a person on the "friend" list signs up.
It definitely hurts us as far as progress, and when good gear goes to a bad player who is there partly because of being a friend, it causes a lot of dissension.
A lot of people out of the 25 you take to a raid expect to not just do the normal modes / ToC forever until next content patch comes out. They want some progress. They have recount etc (and our guild does post to wowmeteronline and worldoflogs) and know when we're carrying someone (or 2 or 4). They won't put up with that for long.
It comes down to a couple of questions:
Are you raiding with friends because you like raiding with them even though some of them are weak at wow (yes, it's possible) and it means you won't see hardmodes?
or
Do you want to go to a guild that emphasizes performance/preparation and has ambitions and the structure & planning to complete the most challenging content available?
There are shades of gray in between these two extremes of course (and the "hard core" extreme I describe is not even as hard core as some guilds are in actuality).
Blackhorn Nov 13th 2009 10:38AM
How do you handle mass firings? I'm not going to be cocky about this, but I'm tired of being humble.
I am a good player. I understand fight mechanics on the fly. I know how to not stand in fire. And I do top 3 DPS despite being out-geared by over 200 points compared to most of the guild.
General Vezax is a fight that is as simple as Simple Jack (Tropic Thunder, anyone?). Here's the parts that were flawless:
Interrupt the AoE.
Heal through the mini-enrage.
Here's the parts people just couldn't understand:
Be cautious about mana usage.
If you're ranged DPS, stay ranged
If the boss has to be MOVED, correct your position accordingly
Proper usage of the green/black puddles
I'm doing these fights, and if my hair were long enough I'd probably consider tearing some of it out. Mimiron.. Vezax.. all of them are cakewalks to a skilled player. Vezax is even simpler than Mimiron, and we wiped for over an hour in a group of people geared from ToC25. I've never even run Ulduar before, and I wind up being top DPS overall because I'm always one of the last few to die.
Again, I'm not trying to be boastful, I'm just trying to illustrate a few shortcomings in typical raids. If you, as a player, are having difficulty understanding a fight after the third attempt, spend some time between raids working on your movement skills. Employ the mouse more. It's not all WASD. Learn how to move fluidly. When your raid is buffing up, practice running 'obstacle courses' around the players... weaving in and out. If you're a rogue, do this with sprint up. The left+right mouse button method is the best for moving. Use A and D for small course corrections and the like.
Just always move. If you can move well, you can down bosses.
Blackhorn Nov 13th 2009 10:41AM
PS: I see now that I basically said "if you can't understand a fight, practice moving" which is a tad .. silly. But hey. Movement problems are the cause of 90% of guild wipes. Even if you don't quite understand the fight, if you can MOVE you'll do okay.
PPS: I'm one of the proud few who can say they didn't die on their first Heigan dance. :P
zappo Nov 13th 2009 11:17AM
I think you'll find your results on Vezax aren't exactly a shocking surprise. There's no way you can get that far and not see these same people in the fire on easier content. The trick is to catch people who consistently fail at it and address it while the content is still easy. When you're wiping on Yogg and people aren't getting it, it's already too late. If you see someone failing all the time in Obsidian Sanctum, and allow a person to adjust I think some people might have a better chance bringing their skills up to par.
I wouldn't exactly say Heigan is a good way to judge people though. I never died on it either until I had problems with my cable modem. While usually I have 150ms latency, it started shooting up between 1500 and 2000+. I'd see people in the goop but not dead, and everything was just shooting up in random places and my character was all over the place. I knew where I was SUPPOSED to be, but it didn't matter. It doesn't take more skill than getting past stage 1 in super mario bros, but I think you'd find super mario bros quite difficult if you had no idea where mario was, or if the game actually registered the point where you thought you jumped.
Babbling, so anyway. Rehearsal is key. Take the time to coach people through easier content, and I think you'll see them perform better as it gets slightly more complicated instead of watching them drown when their in way over their heads.
Blackhorn Nov 13th 2009 11:24AM
I think most people who haven't practice moving Mario around would find the first level of Super Mario Bros. pretty difficult :P If you can get good at running and jumping at the same time, you're golden. Same is true in WoW (less about the jumping though).
Either way. You're kinda right on the money there. If we get to Vezax and people are still standing where they shouldn't be, it's reveals a problem that should have been addressed a very long time ago. Two of them actually:
1) Nobody ever took these people aside to get to the root of the problem
2) Despite #1, the guild management still let these folks get geared right the hell up.
DonaldTrump Nov 13th 2009 10:41AM
Wait, what?! You're fired!
Vonmises Nov 13th 2009 11:05AM
LoL. Yeah if you break up with her online. But IRL, you should probably get a friend to sit in, you know for your own protection XD
Riltia Nov 13th 2009 11:48AM
Totally agree with this post/article.
But I think what has to be mentioned is that guild rules have to be implemented as soon as possible, and as soon as they're implemented, give a few days grace for people to get themselves together. So, for example, if you've said everyone needs DBM for raiding, you should allow people 3 days to download it and configure it. It's unfair to expect everyone to have it the moment your rules go live, but new recruits (say a month after the guild started) should have a shorter grace period.
Good read, and I've learnt a lot from it. Despite not being an officer (although I often act like one), I've found myself concerned about the other raiders, and now I've got a better way to approach it.
Byrd Nov 13th 2009 12:26PM
i don't know if these such formality has ever been practiced in guilds i've been in
usually bad players just get "sit out" more often.. or told they can get another spot/chance once they improve. if they get another chance and don't improve they just get sit out again for an undetermined length of raiding time.
Stuckinhouston Nov 13th 2009 1:34PM
Fired is a bad term I think to use, this is a game not real life. Yes, there are requirements and certain criteria need to be set and this needs to be done up front and should be part of the guild bylaws. And in saying that, I think all guild bylaws need to be reviewed and updated if necessary at least once a month.
One option was not mentioned in the article and that was to let the player know that you would love to raid with them but that there are still issues that have not yet been taken care of that have been addressed and that they have been given the opportunity to correct these problems. . We would love for you to raid with us and want you to be part of this guild, but that they are temporarily on suspension from raiding and that you will revisit this again at that time to see where they stand.
One thing also to keep in mind is that if this individual has always been a good performer and their performance slacks off, there could be real life issues going on. So make sure that this is addressed to see if this is one of the things that could be causing raid performance problems.